Why can't current leaders be quotable and notable too?...

In addition to Sput's response, I see a few other factors.

1. I venture to say that very few of today's politicians and leaders have the command of language held by those 'ancient' statesman. The de-emphasis of language arts at every level of the curriculum in our schools has resulted in smaller vocabularies and poorer mechanics in terms of grammar, spelling, and rhetoric. Even those who do have sufficient command of the language are advised and assisted to lower the level of vocabulary and reduce the complexity of the rhetoric in order to appeal to a lower common denominator.

2. Public speeches and documents now are often further simplified in order to make sure they will translate properly into other languages, many of which are not as rich in vocabulary, so subtleties and nuances are not only lost, they are actively avoided.

3. The immediacy of modern media has also had an adverse impact in terms of the richness and precise use of language. Sput mentioned sound-bites, referring, I think, to short, concise, often terse comments which can be played in a short amount of airtime. Often those sound-bite comments are scripted, not necessarily to clearly and concisely capture the author's thoughts on the issue as to give the appearance of so doing. If the response has the proper rhythm and is delivered in an effective manner, appears to respond to the issue without being either too precise or too vague, then considerations of accuracy and relevance be damned.

4. Statesmen of the past were often forced by constraints of time and travel to communicate solely in writing, and knew as they crafted the document that their message must be clear, concise, and persuasive. The opportunity to correct misunderstandings, clarify points of contention, or strengthen a message might not come for a very long time after the initial document was received, if ever. Thus a great deal more thought and attention was given to the composition. Modern spin control has taken away the need for that kind of effort.

With each passing year, I become more disappointed at the state of literacy in general, and the deterioration of the rhetorical art, which is why I make a point personally of trying to discipline myself to use appropriate language and to use it as precisely and correctly as possible. On occasion, I will even attempt to assist others who appear in need of a reminder.

I agree with the above and have lamented the lack of statesmen or inspirational leaders myself for over thirty years. By way of understanding the times we live in I offer you this not so comforting view of our times from an ancient text...

We are living in the final years of the Kali Yuga, the age of conflict, the fourth and final Kalpa (stage) of our world's passage through the cycle of life that is but a day for  Brahma.  In the Linga Purana, one of the books of the Upanishads, a collection of wisdom that predates us all by thousands of years, we are told that in these times we will see these things around us

Everyone will use hard and vulgar language.
 
Men will devote themselves to earning money the richest will hold power.
 
The state leaders will no longer protect the people but, through taxes, will appropriate all wealth.

Fetuses will be killed in the wombs of their mothers.
 
People will prefer to choose false ideas.
 
No one will be able to trust anyone else.
 
People will be envious.

Young girls will do trade in their virginity.
 
The god of clouds will be inconsistent in the distribution of the rains.
 
Shopkeepers will run dishonest businesses.
 
There will be many beggars and unemployed people.

Water will be lacking.

Pre-cooked food will be readily available

Thieves will become kings, and kings will be the thieves.
 
Rulers will confiscate property and use it badly.
 
They will cease to protect the people.
 
Base men who have gained a certain amount of learning (without having the virtues necessary for its use) will be esteemed as sages.
 
There will be many displaced persons, wandering from one country to another.

The Kali Yuga is a five thousand year period so these writings were done in this age, albeit closer to the begining when such predictions as these seemed inconceivable. They had been passed down orally for thousands of years and finally preserved when Sanskrit became available, thus, writing itself is another symptom of the Kali Yuga.

Even those who do have sufficient command of the language are advised and assisted to lower the level of vocabulary and reduce the complexity of the rhetoric in order to appeal to a lower common denominator.

Betty has a pram.

See Spot run....

How about this? -  "I will rid the world of evil."

not your usual political rhetoric...

 

btw - the source of those predictions listed in my post above is a book titled "While the Gods Play: Shiva Oracles and Predictions on the Cycles of History and the Destiny of Mankind", by Alain Danielou - 1985

Not trying to push the Vedas on anyone, I just thought those statements about our times were quite fitting. We are apparently nearing the end of this cycle and the effects are supposed to be more pronounced as we approach the final curtain. The predictions seem to describe our times so well it's hard to remember they are from 500 to thousands of years old.

Statesmen lied, cheated, stole, used religion and spun the facts just as they do today. The only difference I see is the mytique has been removed because people are not as gullable over all as they were many years ago, that and the Politicians of today can not own slaves.

The Constituation was for Whites, if you happened to be of any other color see as sub human you wore a slag iron collar and ended up put to the whip for any ryme or even with lack of reason.

What put us where we are today is apithy and that is based in the fact that people have forgotten that it IS a government of the people by the people and for the people. Not Corporations, not foreign interests, not for future book deals or public speaking tours and definitly not future employment once a politician is out of office.

It is a catch 22 in the USA as far as the political machine goes. Congress is charged to be the voice of the people and yet they are forced to toe the line draw in the sand by one of the very key elements they are charged to keep in check from taking advantage of the people.

Yes we are ruled today and the person sitting on the throne was hand picked without a doubt, but we are no less ruled by anyone else who happens to find their way to that same throne. The political system is over bloated, broken, limping, wheezing and living on a promise and a prayer. The only difference between the two ruling parties is that one will smile and kiss you while doing the deed and the other brings along a cheerleading squad while it just knocks you down and rapes you (the people) with all it's friends and backers watching with glee cheering them on and then convinces you that it was not only what you needed, but what you wanted.

Expansion of Government on one path lends to corruption, squandering, manipulations, waste and little being done while that same little is held up as some kind of great acheivment. Conversly Privatization only lends to adding a few making monitary gains while again taking what little positive returns came from the other sides efforts and spreading it among a few.

Education for example in Florida has been totally screwed beyond belief with the voucher program and the leave all children still in public school behind. It is a scam, period.

The Death Tax is about as stupid a spin that anyone could have bought but people did buy it in mass. How mny people here will feel the crunch of an enharitence tax? But all you do is rename it the Death Tax, oh boy everyone dies...

Spin...

Hate to say it, but until people wake up we get what we deserve and that is just about where it stays...

Want change? vote...

either way, for anyone one you like, but vote...

Because the more time goes by since 9/11 the more the USA is starting to look as if it slides into real Communisim. Where the only ones who have a thing speak of, rights, food, toilet paper and much much more, are those who either are the government or those who have just a bit more than those with nothing that work for the government.

In My Opinion

anyway...

DavidK - i can fit in all those endtime prophecies into every major epoch of human history, except the pre-cooked food. the zenith of human depravity peaks and falls in different locals at different times. still, it certainly gives an apt description of what can be widely seen in cultures around the world today. perhaps more widely than in the past.

Bangkokboy - I agree - doom sayers come and go, and it's been shown that some people at all times in history have been convinced that they live in the "end times". It seems to be part of the human condition. Applying those predictions to now rather than any other time is similar to reading Nostrodamus to decide which horse to bet on....

I'd be interested though to see alternative translations from the "original" Sanskrit besides the version written in 1985 - just because it's always intersting to see how people tend to "translate" into terms relevant to the world they live in, thus making such things seem more relevant...yet when you go back to the source, it's often open to very different translations which would make them seem completely irrelevant.

Sput has spent too long "debunking" pseudo-science to take any one such translation at face value

just because it's always intersting to see how people tend to "translate" into terms relevant to the world they live in, thus making such things seem more relevant...yet when you go back to the source, it's often open to very different translations which would make them seem completely irrelevant.

or as a means of controlling the masses, with such as, oh I dunno, the religious books of the world for instance

or as a means of controlling the masses, with such as, oh I dunno, the religious books of the world for instance

....you might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment....

ok

DavidK, it's interesting how you said we are 'living our final years'. I just read about something that is freakishly along those lines. Ancient Mayas (or Aztecs) developed a calendar based on the stars, that calendar was made in ~300 B.C., it was accurate and predated to 5000 B.C., but the catch is...that calendar has an end. The story says it's end is the marking of the end of the current life age, and the beginning of the new one, that date is December 23rd, 2012. Now, the real catch is how would that end come to be...but that can be saved for a new topic. Hehe...

Just an interesting bit of coincidental information.

Yes it stops for no reason that they can figure out because it could have continued well beyond 2012... Or course they might have got fed up with it

Ironically Hus, it's exactly 3200 days until the end of the "long count" of the Mayan calendar... and your mention of it comes in post #32... what a coincidence

It's worth pointing out that the "end" of the Mayan calendar is also a beginning of a new age. Just as the pre-Colombian Hopi stories of the "Great Purification" talk of the end of this "sun" and the beginning of a new one. They don't give a date like the Maya but they say

"First they will bring back pieces of the Moon which will upset the balance and unleash disastrous forces."

"Near the day of the Great Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."

"The Purification will begin shortly after humans build a great house in the sky. By then there will be fires everywhere and greedy, selfish, power-mad leaders, internal wars."

In Astrology there is the beginning of the age of Aquarius which is supposed to start soon (no one seems to know when these ages change, there's such a murky boundary because of all the overlapping influences I guess).

Debunk all you want, it doesn't matter, no one is trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just some cool info that all seems to coincide with this 5,000 year period the Hindus called Kali Yuga. The best estimates I've seen for the start of this age are somewhere around 3000 BC.

My favorite doomsayer prophecies are the environmental scientists (the real ones, not the ones hired by the big polluter Corps) making wild predictions back in the sixties, around the time Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring was released. They were saying that if we didn't make some serious changes in our use of resources we'd be seeing irreversible damage in about thirty years. Look around you, there is no question we have damaged our environment with potentially disastrous consequences, like the ice-age that is being predicted for Great Britain in the next 10 years or so, or the loss of over 85% of the "food" species of fish in the oceans.

One of my favorite quotes:

"Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system."
David C. Korten

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hmmm... the server must've hiccupped just as I was posting that, not only did it post twice but the message board disapeared for awhile. I d your double post comment EH cause it makes no sense now... the joys of admin toys

...Ive read essays/articles recently that suggest that 'Global Warming' may be a 'myth'...
According to them, 'ice ages' and vice-versa are caused not so much by 'greenhouse gasses' but rather by Sunspot activity, or lack therof.

As far as 'the end is near'...

Anyone remember the thread a while back about 'John Titor'? (Guy who supposedly came from the future to 'warn' us about 'disasterous events'...then dissappeared without a trace) https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=187021#187915 ...According to him, next year, we're supposed to have another 'civil-war' here in the US...

Like I said in the other thread (no rhyme intended)...Ill believe it when I see it.

I d your double post comment EH cause it makes no sense now

http://www.globalwarming.org/

http://www.climatehotmap.org/

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html

http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/kids/

some links on Global Warming... including the EPA's

Some interesting stories about the Gulf Stream...

Scientist 'gagged' by No 10 after warning of global warming threat

Insurer warns of global warming catastrophe

Abrupt Climate Change:
Scenario from A Pentagon-Commissioned Report

Now the Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us

I guess we're getting a bit off topic here, this thread was originally about privacy issues

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I guess this kind of fits in this thread now... The closest "near-miss" ever recorded in an asteroid fly-by is going to occur in about 2 hours from now Recently Discovered Near-Earth Asteroid Makes Record-breaking Approach to Earth

It was discovered yesterday...

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