Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid..
Monday, March 15, 2004 by werewolf | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This may be old news, but first I've heard of it.
On Friday, the FBI made public a far-reaching proposal that would require all broadband Internet providers to rewire their networks (at their own expense) to support easy wiretapping by police. If approved as drafted, the proposal could dramatically expand the scope of the agency's wiretap powers and raise costs for cable broadband companies. The 85-page filing includes language asserting that new services lacking a back door for law enforcement would be outlawed. The proposal is sure to be the subject of polarized debate, especially in this election year.
http://ct.com.com/click?q=bd-c0dUQ7pstLq7ntNZTohO0QGGg9RR
I know the link has a .com.com on it, but it really does go to ZDNET. It's not a spoof.
On Friday, the FBI made public a far-reaching proposal that would require all broadband Internet providers to rewire their networks (at their own expense) to support easy wiretapping by police. If approved as drafted, the proposal could dramatically expand the scope of the agency's wiretap powers and raise costs for cable broadband companies. The 85-page filing includes language asserting that new services lacking a back door for law enforcement would be outlawed. The proposal is sure to be the subject of polarized debate, especially in this election year.
http://ct.com.com/click?q=bd-c0dUQ7pstLq7ntNZTohO0QGGg9RR
I know the link has a .com.com on it, but it really does go to ZDNET. It's not a spoof.
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Snowman
Reply #2 Monday, March 15, 2004 11:34 PM
Reply #2 Monday, March 15, 2004 11:34 PM
Dunno why, but for some reason "extreme paranoia" and "mental instability" are the first words that comes to my mind here....
Jafo
Reply #3 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:05 AM
Reply #3 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:05 AM
my first thoughts were....'tinfoil hats' and 'black helicopters on whisper mode'....
DavidK
Reply #4 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:28 AM
Reply #4 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:28 AM
Another disturbing request from the government for police-state powers...
MGiff
Reply #5 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:30 AM
Reply #5 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:30 AM
I'm torn. 9-11 hurt me bad, I don't want to see that happen again and I read that those guys were communicating a lot on the internet. BUT would these capabilities have led the FBI to them? I don't see it. I would go for it if I trusted the hands these liberties were given to but since I don't, well, I'm just torn about it. Maybe if the government would just worry about governing and mind their own dadgum business...... (I don't know about dadgum, I'm southern)....... 
I must be in a bad mood, that sounded terrible.
[Message Edited]
I must be in a bad mood, that sounded terrible.
[Message Edited]
Old_Crab
Reply #6 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:19 AM
Reply #6 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:19 AM
If we allow these changes due to the terrorists and their tactics then we allow them to win by changing our lives and by giving up our liberties. Also this smacks of a far right wing take over of our government. It happened in Germany, Russia, Spain and many other nations. Call it what you will. Fascism starts this way. Give up your liberties one by one and soon or later you'll given them all up for "security". It has begun. 1984 is back. Ashcroft is back. Man do I go on. Tirade over. >
Sput
Reply #7 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:49 AM
Reply #7 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:49 AM
#6 - I agree completely about the terrorists winning if this sort of knee jerk draconian measure is justified by their actions. The one things terrorists try to create is terror, and the best thing we can do to prevent them continuing is to demonstrate that we are NOT terrified by them.
I live in the UK, I lived through the era of IRA bombings, and I learned that nothing is gained from being scared of such things - progress only comes from understanding, dialogue and ultimately, yes...compromise.
I live in the UK, I lived through the era of IRA bombings, and I learned that nothing is gained from being scared of such things - progress only comes from understanding, dialogue and ultimately, yes...compromise.
DarkMist
Reply #8 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:05 AM
Reply #8 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:05 AM
Compromise is option rarely looked upon, what benefits them HAS to benefit us, a like it or lump it attitude
MGiff
Reply #9 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:21 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:21 PM
Especially if your country is being ruled by some John Wayne acting Texan that thinks "my way or the highway". 
You guys forgive me, I'm even a die hard Republican and I can't stand the guy.
[Message Edited]
You guys forgive me, I'm even a die hard Republican and I can't stand the guy.
[Message Edited]
MadPyro
Reply #10 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:51 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:51 PM
#6, yeah, i totally agree, its a snowball type of effect you let it roll on, and it gets bigger and bigger.
Shameless Designs
Reply #11 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:11 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:11 PM
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
UBoB
Reply #12 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:13 PM
Reply #12 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:13 PM
President Woodrow Wilson, during WWI, stated, "We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men."
Jafo
Reply #13 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:16 PM
Reply #13 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:16 PM
It's a sorry situation that has us quoting ancient commentary....means no-one 'new' is of equitable 'quality'....
MGiff
Reply #14 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:40 PM
Reply #14 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:40 PM
Good point. Except of course for "read my lips".............
Sput
Reply #15 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:52 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:52 PM
jafo - could be that the old brigade was right and that we've now got the "leaders" we deserve for letting it happen despite their words of warning?
Jafo
Reply #16 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:56 PM
Reply #16 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:56 PM
Sput...yes....and it is a tad annoying that when people look for 'great statesmen' in history....they NEED to go a fair way back....[this is a world-wide issue, not just the US].
Why can't current leaders be quotable and notable too?...
UBoB
Reply #17 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:45 PM
Reply #17 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:45 PM
OK. Something much more current said by Noam Chomsky.
"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
If the orignal post worries you...do something to make sure it doesn't happen.
"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
If the orignal post worries you...do something to make sure it doesn't happen.
Sput
Reply #18 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:49 PM
Reply #18 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:49 PM
jafo - because "we" now vote for TELE-Vision celebrities rather than people with REAL-vision.
We're in the era of the instant sound bite, rather than the considered observation.
...and worst of all, polititians have very little to do with what happens in the world in many ways as we're no longer democracies but have become "ruled" by unelected media/business "dictators" who manipulate public opinion, and keep most people so fed on a opium of Simpsons/reality tv/junk news that their capacity to question what is going on in the world is reduced to deciding which re-run they should watch while eating their vacuum packed TV meals...
Sput is getting even more cynical by the minute...
We're in the era of the instant sound bite, rather than the considered observation.
...and worst of all, polititians have very little to do with what happens in the world in many ways as we're no longer democracies but have become "ruled" by unelected media/business "dictators" who manipulate public opinion, and keep most people so fed on a opium of Simpsons/reality tv/junk news that their capacity to question what is going on in the world is reduced to deciding which re-run they should watch while eating their vacuum packed TV meals...
Sput is getting even more cynical by the minute...
Sput
Reply #19 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:52 PM
Reply #19 Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:52 PM
UBoB - I do, and posting here to possibly help point out to some people who may not be aware WHY this is such an issue is part of that...I've also taken part in various non-violent direct actions based on other issues in the past...
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Reply #1 Monday, March 15, 2004 8:40 PM
The truth is that anyone with enough initiative to and reason could/will create their own private solutions to encrypt any trafic they need to - possibly using steganography to avoid obvious "uncrackable" packets floating about and drawing attention to them.
The only people things like this makes it possible for the authorities to monitor are Joe Public and small time wannabe troublemakers. If the state wishes to spy on it's people then they should say so and not wrap it up in "this is for your own good" balony.
I would expect even moderate scale drug dealers will quickly adapt to using techniques to avoid this being effective.
In the mean time, it stiffles inovation, smothers freedom of exchange of ideas in the general population, and undermines yet again peoples trust in the very organisations which purport to "protect" them.
Sput is feeling particularly cynical today!
[Message Edited]