HotList
Wednesday, April 30, 2003 by MadIce | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
The lists of skinners with top downloads rarely changes. The list attracts attention to skinners that already have a lot of attention. Because the current system is very prominent new skinners may not have the attention they deserve. I would like to see a list of downloads from skinners that are new. Not sure how to do that, but limiting the list to new skinners with not more than 3 skins/suites may produce interesting results. Let's call it the HotList.
We should keep the old lists of course, but maybe we should give the HotList extra attention. One can easily do that by locating the list above the Top Downloads list.
The Featured Skin often focuses on popular skins or noteworthy skins. It would be great to have it foces on new talent or have a second category called HotSkin. Maybe located next to the traditional Featured Skin section. Seems like there is room for that on the page.
Maybe you have different or better ideas. What do you think about the subject?
We should keep the old lists of course, but maybe we should give the HotList extra attention. One can easily do that by locating the list above the Top Downloads list.
The Featured Skin often focuses on popular skins or noteworthy skins. It would be great to have it foces on new talent or have a second category called HotSkin. Maybe located next to the traditional Featured Skin section. Seems like there is room for that on the page.
Maybe you have different or better ideas. What do you think about the subject?
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DarkMist
Reply #42 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:05 AM
Reply #42 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:05 AM
I totally agree...That was my point earlier, If people start competing then quality will be ruled out for sheer speed on uploading and the moderators are gonna have a huge task dealing with drips and drabs piling in.
treetog
Reply #43 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:11 AM
Reply #43 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:11 AM
I would like to give my opinion here.
As you guys my notice, the top authors list have being changind lately and I am really happy to see that new names are poping up everyday. If you take a closer look on the today's list, you will see that it's majority is made buy new authors.
I really don't care if the skinners is a vet or a newbie, what I really like to see is good stuff, independently of who made it. Good stuff tends to be made by experiemnted authors but I have being seeing some very nice files from new names here and the new ranking system is proving that.
I also agree that if a new skinner, uploads a file and in the other day he sees his name there, he will be motivated to make another and better skin next time. I can tell you that for sure, because that was what hapenned to me when I began. Today I have didfficult on updating old skins, because my technich changed to much during the years, thanks to the motivation coming from users and other skinners.
If anyone needs some help, just drop me a line and I will be glad to help.
As you guys my notice, the top authors list have being changind lately and I am really happy to see that new names are poping up everyday. If you take a closer look on the today's list, you will see that it's majority is made buy new authors.
I really don't care if the skinners is a vet or a newbie, what I really like to see is good stuff, independently of who made it. Good stuff tends to be made by experiemnted authors but I have being seeing some very nice files from new names here and the new ranking system is proving that.
I also agree that if a new skinner, uploads a file and in the other day he sees his name there, he will be motivated to make another and better skin next time. I can tell you that for sure, because that was what hapenned to me when I began. Today I have didfficult on updating old skins, because my technich changed to much during the years, thanks to the motivation coming from users and other skinners.
If anyone needs some help, just drop me a line and I will be glad to help.
DarkMist
Reply #44 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:16 AM
Reply #44 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:16 AM
So what how is the count on the Top Authors worked out now?
MadIce
Reply #45 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:35 AM
Reply #45 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 9:35 AM
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=145209#145400
Frogboy informs us here about some of it.
Frogboy informs us here about some of it.
feline
Reply #47 Monday, May 12, 2003 8:24 AM
Reply #47 Monday, May 12, 2003 8:24 AM
i missed this thread the first time round. personally, i think the title didn't help attract my attention
i think the idea of an experimental area is VERY good!
once, many months ago, i started work on a coolplayer skin. i have a line drawing outline (made in a CAD program) of the idea. it is quite a simple idea, and a bit different.
however, to turn the outline into a skin, i needed to learn how to colour it in so it looked nice.
i downloaded GIMP, installed GIMP, got totally confused, and lost interest *sigh*
i already knew how to use the CAD program, so the line drawing was easy
one of the main things that held be back (besides having no knowledge or skill with graphics programs) was the question: "what will i do with this skin outline?"
i still think the design idea is good (perhaps i am biased) but there is a world of difference between that and a polished skin i would be happy to put my name to, even allowing for the fact it is my first skin.
so, if i had somewhere i could upload my initial sketches, thoughts, and silly attempts at colouring, to get helpful feedback from people who know something about this, that would mean a lot to me.
as an outsider with no experience with graphics, making a skin, any skin, is a vertical learning curve
the "ideas" behind the skin make sense. i have read and edited UIS files from windowblinds, teaching myself to change the colours and fonts with notepad. but what about the graphics? the overall look? making it all hang together?
at work i am a UNIX programmer, and at home i have OB, a 56k modem net connection, and an ISP who disconnects me every 2 hours. it is part of the terms and conditions, but i like to see it coming.
so, i have decided (perhaps a very ignorant and silly decision) to write a DX / OB plugin to tell me how long i have been online.
i have a plan for a standalone windows program to do this, and some outline code that works. i am only starting learning windows programming, so all of this is learning by trial and error.
so, again, an experimental place would be ideal. this time i am approaching from a totally different direction. i am hoping i can produce this plugin, but i suspect without help it will never get beyond my machine.
so, a potentially useful plugin (i am hanging onto hope since i don't know i cannot do this yet
) may be "lost" to the community.
i have been around this site for a while, but i wouldn't wish to impose on the busy skinners / developers with my "how do i write the hello world program in windows" level questions. MadIce has been kind enough to answer my vague initial questions, but if i need help with this in a while (quite possible) i don't know where i would turn.
surely i am not the only person who has had these sort of experiences?
a place where the newbies and the experts can both go to simply try out wild and silly experimental ideas with no need to "polish", a place to get helpful feedback with no pressure, and simply a place to canvas opinion, surely this has a future???
feline would hate to see this idea, now i have discovered it, just die since people haven't read the thread, or considered it worth pursuing.
MadIce, i am not one of the experienced skinners you were hoping would support this idea, i am simply me. but on the plus side, i have bumped the thread quit a big bump post all in all 
i think the idea of an experimental area is VERY good!
once, many months ago, i started work on a coolplayer skin. i have a line drawing outline (made in a CAD program) of the idea. it is quite a simple idea, and a bit different.
however, to turn the outline into a skin, i needed to learn how to colour it in so it looked nice.
i downloaded GIMP, installed GIMP, got totally confused, and lost interest *sigh*
i already knew how to use the CAD program, so the line drawing was easy
one of the main things that held be back (besides having no knowledge or skill with graphics programs) was the question: "what will i do with this skin outline?"
i still think the design idea is good (perhaps i am biased
) but there is a world of difference between that and a polished skin i would be happy to put my name to, even allowing for the fact it is my first skin.so, if i had somewhere i could upload my initial sketches, thoughts, and silly attempts at colouring, to get helpful feedback from people who know something about this, that would mean a lot to me.
as an outsider with no experience with graphics, making a skin, any skin, is a vertical learning curve
the "ideas" behind the skin make sense. i have read and edited UIS files from windowblinds, teaching myself to change the colours and fonts with notepad. but what about the graphics? the overall look? making it all hang together?
at work i am a UNIX programmer, and at home i have OB, a 56k modem net connection, and an ISP who disconnects me every 2 hours. it is part of the terms and conditions, but i like to see it coming.
so, i have decided (perhaps a very ignorant and silly decision) to write a DX / OB plugin to tell me how long i have been online.
i have a plan for a standalone windows program to do this, and some outline code that works. i am only starting learning windows programming, so all of this is learning by trial and error.
so, again, an experimental place would be ideal. this time i am approaching from a totally different direction. i am hoping i can produce this plugin, but i suspect without help it will never get beyond my machine.
so, a potentially useful plugin (i am hanging onto hope since i don't know i cannot do this yet
) may be "lost" to the community.i have been around this site for a while, but i wouldn't wish to impose on the busy skinners / developers with my "how do i write the hello world program in windows" level questions. MadIce has been kind enough to answer my vague initial questions, but if i need help with this in a while (quite possible
) i don't know where i would turn.surely i am not the only person who has had these sort of experiences?
a place where the newbies and the experts can both go to simply try out wild and silly experimental ideas with no need to "polish", a place to get helpful feedback with no pressure, and simply a place to canvas opinion, surely this has a future???
feline would hate to see this idea, now i have discovered it, just die since people haven't read the thread, or considered it worth pursuing.
MadIce, i am not one of the experienced skinners you were hoping would support this idea, i am simply me. but on the plus side, i have bumped the thread
quit a big bump post all in all 
MadIce
Reply #48 Monday, May 12, 2003 8:46 AM
Reply #48 Monday, May 12, 2003 8:46 AM
No, Feline, thanks for your comments! I hope the knife cuts on both sides (not sure if this is a proper English saying), because the Experimental section should be used by both new and experienced skinners.
BTW: There are several sites that can help you with Windows coding. How about this http://www.codeguru.com
[Message Edited]
BTW: There are several sites that can help you with Windows coding. How about this http://www.codeguru.com
[Message Edited]
feline
Reply #49 Monday, May 12, 2003 9:45 AM
Reply #49 Monday, May 12, 2003 9:45 AM
thanks for the link, i will check that out.
feline makes a sweeping generalisation
it seems to me that the new skins for WB seem to be very "similar" of late. there seem to be very few off the wall ideas turning up.
perhaps i am just missing the really different ones. but i think it would be nice to see a bit more wild and outlandish experimentation.
those sort of skins aren't likely to get the massive downloads, so perhaps an experimental place would be a good place for the experienced skinners to just play around?
i remember a while ago (maybe a long time ago) Jafo uploading a WB skin who's main feature was that the minimise, maximise and close buttons were down the edge of the window. it was of course gray, so it wasn't a total experiment
as memory serves, he did this just because he could, and because the native XP skinning engine couldn't. feline thinks more off the wall experimentation would be fun!
is it just me, or are people starting to take skinning far to seriously these days? i just get the impression sometimes that skinners doing it just for the sheer joy of skinning are in the decline.
thinking back, remember the TV WB skin? that was different
feline is all in favour of anything that will encourage skinners to let their hair down and experiment wildly, with no regard for getting it accepted, or getting lots of downloads.
that just sounds like *fun*!
feline makes a sweeping generalisation
it seems to me that the new skins for WB seem to be very "similar" of late. there seem to be very few off the wall ideas turning up.
perhaps i am just missing the really different ones. but i think it would be nice to see a bit more wild and outlandish experimentation.
those sort of skins aren't likely to get the massive downloads, so perhaps an experimental place would be a good place for the experienced skinners to just play around?
i remember a while ago (maybe a long time ago) Jafo uploading a WB skin who's main feature was that the minimise, maximise and close buttons were down the edge of the window. it was of course gray, so it wasn't a total experiment
as memory serves, he did this just because he could, and because the native XP skinning engine couldn't. feline thinks more off the wall experimentation would be fun!
is it just me, or are people starting to take skinning far to seriously these days? i just get the impression sometimes that skinners doing it just for the sheer joy of skinning are in the decline.
thinking back, remember the TV WB skin? that was different
feline is all in favour of anything that will encourage skinners to let their hair down and experiment wildly, with no regard for getting it accepted, or getting lots of downloads.
that just sounds like *fun*!
feline
Reply #50 Monday, May 12, 2003 9:49 AM
Reply #50 Monday, May 12, 2003 9:49 AM
MadIce, thinking about my last post, a horrible thought has just occurred to me.
how could the admins stop an experimental area filling up with "bryce dolphins", etc?
i just don't want to see it used as a way to bypass moderation. you can hardly moderate "in development" skins that people are learning by making. but at the same time, you do need some standards, don't you?
i think if a sensible idea to handle that can be thought of, we should try bouncing up and down on a few admins to see what they think about this
how could the admins stop an experimental area filling up with "bryce dolphins", etc?
i just don't want to see it used as a way to bypass moderation. you can hardly moderate "in development" skins that people are learning by making. but at the same time, you do need some standards, don't you?
i think if a sensible idea to handle that can be thought of, we should try bouncing up and down on a few admins to see what they think about this
MadIce
Reply #51 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:09 AM
Reply #51 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:09 AM
Feline: Yes. I agree that a lot of skins look very similar these days. It looks like a lot of people are in it just for the downloads and the ratings. I have a theory (well maybe just a hunch) about this. There are a lot of new downloaders these days that like a nice skin, but also don't want their interface to be too alienated. So, the middle of the road skins are downloaded a lot. Only a few extravagant skins become popular. ToonXP is one of them. This is one of the few non-middle-of-the-road-skins made lately, that for some reason becomes popular. If Mormegil didn't have the courage to publish that skin, i.e. if he wanted to go for the downloads only, then this skin was never made. And that is what is happening. A skinner gets a high download count and moves into that direction. It is not that I think all skinners go that way, but I feel it is happening more and more.
werewolf
Reply #52 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:14 AM
Reply #52 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:14 AM
Alien Technology (DavidK) and Tiffany (Lecrayon) are a nice divergence also.
MadIce
Reply #53 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:19 AM
Reply #53 Monday, May 12, 2003 10:19 AM
Feline: I think there will be less problems with moderation than you think. There is no download count and there will be no ratings. There is only a SS and comments and the skin/wall will only be uploaded by using a ZIP-file. Also there should be a 3 month-limit or so. It is experimental and that means that it is not intended to be permanent. Not very attractive for the average Bryce abuser
feline
Reply #55 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:57 AM
Reply #55 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:57 AM
feline sees that MadIce has given this a lot of thought
i was thinking of suggesting only letting each person only place one item at a time in the experimental section, as a way of helping limit things. but i saw problems with this.
i think your plan is the better one
feline goes hunting for people to show this idea to
on paper it sounds well worth trying. perhaps we can start in a small way as an experiment? perhaps start a new thread, and upload screen shots to our profiles?
i will look into figuring out enough of MSPaint to try and get some colour and shape on my coolplayer line drawing. don't hold your breath though
i was thinking of suggesting only letting each person only place one item at a time in the experimental section, as a way of helping limit things. but i saw problems with this.
i think your plan is the better one
feline goes hunting for people to show this idea to
on paper it sounds well worth trying. perhaps we can start in a small way as an experiment? perhaps start a new thread, and upload screen shots to our profiles?
i will look into figuring out enough of MSPaint to try and get some colour and shape on my coolplayer line drawing. don't hold your breath though
MadIce
Reply #56 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:13 AM
Reply #56 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:13 AM
Hehe. I am looking forward to it. ;^)
There is a rumor that the idea of the Experimental section has been brought under the attention of the admins. It would be nice if we can find some skinners that really want this and show their support here. That would make it easier to sell it to the admins.
There is a rumor that the idea of the Experimental section has been brought under the attention of the admins. It would be nice if we can find some skinners that really want this and show their support here. That would make it easier to sell it to the admins.
MadIce
Reply #58 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:28 AM
Reply #58 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:28 AM
I am trying to give it another go on a new thread. Thanks all for responding.
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=148503#toppage
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=148503#toppage
joetheblow
Reply #59 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:56 PM
Reply #59 Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:56 PM
feline try Juno. they don't cut you off every 2 hours (unless your not doing anything on the computer)
well... I don't see the section yet... times-a-waistin!!!
well... I don't see the section yet... times-a-waistin!!!
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Reply #41 Tuesday, May 6, 2003 8:38 AM
On the other side, if skinners (like Adni) just skin to be in that list then I am not sure if that will contribute to the quality of the skins.
Also, it seems that the old list is not fair either. I read in another thread that some downloads are effected by bots and links to other sites. You can hardly call that fair, don't you?
Therefore I can see that the admins of this site want to change that system. They are NOT trying to make Adni less popular, but to make the list more fair.
The attempts are great, but there will still be ONE list and I am still concerned that new talent will have a hard time in such a list. But I must hold my breath, because it seems that the admins are still tweaking the system.
Another thing I am worried about is that it seems like few of the experienced skinners are interested in the "Experimental section". With a few exceptions they don't even care to visit this thread. Instead they rather keep busy with religion, politics, chocolate and preventing to kick Baker's ass.
[Message Edited]