hey thats a pretty neat idea... sorta like a rookie of the day.

Yeah great idea Mad, or even small list of Stardock apps for top skin sections of some sort..

Also maybe another thing id like to see that ArtUproar can do, is you can arrange the site layout for each account. That way you can see Top skinners or whatever on how you view them.

Just throwing idea's aswell..

Those are great ideas too, mr V. Freak, but I rather see some ideas that actually set the spotlight on new skinners

Great Idea MadIce, I'd like to see that. I'd also like to see an older featured skin, something that was very popular a few months back featured again in a "Flashback Pick" or something. Good stuff gets buried quick here sometimes

Bump....[am looking to see more 'non-admin' posts]...

Hmmm

Yea MadIce, I like that idea...I know I couldve used it when I first came to wincusto'...Then again, I'm still new here and wouldn't consider myself some sort of veteran.

Here here

Then again, some things need to be earned, otherwise the whole issue becomes - "cheap"

Nice idea, like it.

I would have to agree. Excellent idea. A way of bringing talented skinners who maybe are not as prolific to the attention of the masses.

Hum, feature a new artist or author everyday or once a week? Sounds like a good idea as long as its not political and it's fair. But it seems to me that if the author's work is good it wont take long for him or her to be recognized by everyone. Case in point, Ingui burst on the scene and in no time everyone knows who he is. So I guess a case can be made for either course of action.

Thanks for your comments WOM. It make me think of a new battle plan.

"Hum, feature a new artist or author everyday or once a week? Sounds like a good idea as long as its not political and it's fair."

Of course it will be fair and not political. We are on WC here, WOM.

"But it seems to me that if the author's work is good it wont take long for him or her to be recognized by everyone. Case in point, Ingui burst on the scene and in no time everyone knows who he is. So I guess a case can be made for either course of action."

I am concerned about just that. If we do nothing then new talent may slip through our fingers. Of course some will be noticed. But the fact that some do get attention does not mean we have to do nothing.

People are clever enough to decide what they like or not. But my theory is that if we show people new stuff of new skinners then good talent is spotted earlier and people will get more involved in helping new talent.

The rating system is OK for established skinners (in fact I do not want to discuss it here), but new skinners should really get some attention to help them make better skins. I rather see 2 comments on a skin that helps figuring out how the skin can be improved than 60 comments that just tells how great he or she is.

Skins in the spotlight do have a high download count, a high rating or are a Featured Skin. That _may_ give the idea that skinning is all about some kind of competition. The old school started skinning just for the fun of it, they loved to experiment and push the limits. Skinz.org may have been an important milestone, but I do remember Stardock's news groups to be full of people doing just that. A skin usually wasn't created in private. Instead people would upload a beta of the skin to binaries and people would comment about its color, the fonts used, the shape of the images, the look and feel, how to use the lastest WB techniques to the max or whatever.

Recently I noticed a shift towards support on the news groups. People are using it to get help about a specific product. I am glad to see that people are still willing to beta test Stardock's software, though. But it looks like the skinners are moving out.

I think it is natural that both the news groups and the WC site are moving more towards end users of skins and its software. Afterall there are more end users than skinners. The experimental section may be a location for skinners to learn and experiment gain.

People now test and experiment with skins on a much smaller scale. Examples: I will mail Transmutate to ask what he thinks of a wall that I have made or send my WB skin to the GreenReaper to test it, or Phil sends me his latest DesktopX creation. That is all very well and I love that people are willing to help eachother in this way. The only additional input one has is after releasing the skin. That leaves hardly room for new skinners. They do not have these contacts yet.

Times have changed and we cannot get that feeling back, but we have this fantastic site here that may allow us to get some of the advantages of the old school skinning (whatever that may be) back.

Sometime ago virophile and me were talking about that. We came up with the following idea: Create an extra category in the Library called "Experimental". It is designed for established skinners to experiment new techniques or test their betas and to help new skinners to create skins. That section is not related to a specific app, but it is limited to the apps supported on this site. In this section there should be NO download count, NO rating, but there should be a preview, the skin should be downloadable (no automatic installation is required, they will be ZIP files) and people should be able to post comments. The section should be open to site members and Stardock customers.

The "no download count" and "no rating" requirements are very important because we are not competing at this level. The "no guests" requierement is important because comments of the casual visitor is not what we are after and it may help preserve bandwidth. It would be fun to see how this would work. Maybe we can get some real interaction back. The message board is fun, but often is not about skinning at all. The Experimental section may bring that back.

If we do use the HotList idea then the Experimental section can be an aid to new talent. If we do not want such a list the Experimental section may still become a breeding ground for new quality skins and talent.

MadIce hopes that it will get back some of the "community" feeling too.

I agree with the idea of pouring some of the "spotlight" on new skiners, it will be a great ego-booster for newcomers and new talents. Even tho I rather use the present Top Authors list as a motivation tool for striving my self to create better designs. I look at the list and see names such as Adni and Treetog, and I say: -Hell, I gotta try to be on that 1st or 2nd spot.

Chances are that you will find them in the Experimental section too. If the atmosphere is good enough they may even give you advice. AFAIK the experienced skinners have always helped new or fellow skinners. All will benifit from experiences of others. Seems like we just need to create a place for that again.

MadIce: The experimental section sounds like a great idea. I have a lot of experimental DX stuff that I never fleshed out. e.g. I have a lot of DXScripted object (including a walking ATST) sitting on my hard disk but they're not ready to upload as a full object as the code and stuff is still very much experimental. If there was somewhere to upload stuff like that, maybe even useful snippets of code and stuff it would be great. I don't see the DesktopX section as a place for that as stuff there should be finished items in my opinion that someone can download and expect to work well and not reflect badly on the program the skin/theme is for by crashing and stuff.

But by mentioning DX I don't mean it should be limited to that but I consider DX to be my main field of expertise so that's what I tend to see things in light of. As MadIce said it should be for all sections and purely as a way to learn/develop as an artist/skinner.

As a new skinner, I too would like to have more a sense of community. I mean this in the sense of a place to get help, advice, tips, etc. from skinners actively involved in helping each other. I have gotten good advice from the message board and good advice from some as a result of comments to my skins, but it seems like, when you're new at this, you're pretty left to develop yourself until you reach the point of being 'recognized'. I would have liked to be involved in his back in the days that MadIce spoke of.

sorry about spelling .. keep forgetting IESpell

pjpowell: Yes. These are good examples.

pictoratus: We cannot set back the clock. But maybe we can get some of the interaction back again and see what comes out of it.

As an extra aid next to the Experimental section and its comments we could set up an IRC channel as a meeting when a real-time conversation would be handy. One cam cannot using SB and SDC. Create new temporary channels when required or use it to setup other connections (ICQ, AIM, etc.).

For this we need nothing extra. So why not use it? I can setup a permanent channel (maybe #Experiment) at any time.

*bump*