the fall of customize?
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 by John Hamp | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
When I first discovered winamp skins I went to a site called customize.org. Then I went to skinz when cust dissapeared. But since cust has come back its become a haven for l33ts. What's the deal there? Whose in charge of the zoo there? Its just wallpapers and screenshots and they constantly attack Stardock's stuff. I read on deskmod the wb3 announcement and the cust admins were on attacking it there. Then on cust itself they attack it some more. What kind of skin site has admins that bad mouth new releases of the software they support on their site?
 |
|
Page 4 of 10 | |
|
|---|
jcg
Reply #62 Friday, April 26, 2002 6:50 PM
With all the jerks that populate skin sites (and you all know the type I'm talking about), Customize is the only one I have found that actually hires them as admins. I'd call their behavior childish, but that would be an insult to children everywhere. I would delete my stuff, but the "manage uploads" link doesn't work, or maybe it does
Reply #62 Friday, April 26, 2002 6:50 PM
With all the jerks that populate skin sites (and you all know the type I'm talking about), Customize is the only one I have found that actually hires them as admins. I'd call their behavior childish, but that would be an insult to children everywhere. I would delete my stuff, but the "manage uploads" link doesn't work, or maybe it does
Jafo
Reply #63 Friday, April 26, 2002 7:06 PM
Reply #63 Friday, April 26, 2002 7:06 PM
Yes...I, too, started out at Custo, before skinz came along...but I got there via ls.net or com, can't remember which.
It was new to me, and me being new to it, I accepted that their attitudes even back then were something to be endured for the sake of 'being included'.
Then along came skinz.org, and I jumped ship immediately, as from day one it seemed skinz wasn't a haven for the 'teenage brain-dead', and I got involved there straight off...[probably the tenth or so forum post in the first ever thread...losing touch with 'real life'[tm] from thence forward].
Sure, teething troubles made life there 'interesting', but it was never particularly 'insultingly personal' [or is that 'personally insulting'?].
eFront put an end to 'the best skinning site on the net', and for a while it looked like the skinning community had gone to hell in a hand basket.
What 'DID' happen was a splintering of the community into more diverse groups, and it seems, Custo got the 'teenage rebel without a clue' faction....
Now, this 'time-line' isn't complete, I know Deskmod and Devart for example were around before skinz' demise, but I'm sort of following my path through this.
As each and every skinning site would open its doors, I'd drop in to see how it all hung together and if nothing else, register my name for continuity's sake.
So even now, after being treated like excretia by the admins at Custo, I am still a 'member' there to protect my name and not have some puerile rug-rat register it and attempt libel and slander by name confusion.
Annoying part was that 'Jafo' was taken at Devart by some on-line gamer who has no links to skinning and/or graphic art at all....hence my 'the-Jafo' there....
Cutting to the chase, Wincustomize.com is [maturity and common decency - wise] poles apart from Customize.org, and therefore for that reason alone, my 'most comfortable place to be'....
It was new to me, and me being new to it, I accepted that their attitudes even back then were something to be endured for the sake of 'being included'.
Then along came skinz.org, and I jumped ship immediately, as from day one it seemed skinz wasn't a haven for the 'teenage brain-dead', and I got involved there straight off...[probably the tenth or so forum post in the first ever thread...losing touch with 'real life'[tm] from thence forward].
Sure, teething troubles made life there 'interesting', but it was never particularly 'insultingly personal' [or is that 'personally insulting'?].
eFront put an end to 'the best skinning site on the net', and for a while it looked like the skinning community had gone to hell in a hand basket.
What 'DID' happen was a splintering of the community into more diverse groups, and it seems, Custo got the 'teenage rebel without a clue' faction....
Now, this 'time-line' isn't complete, I know Deskmod and Devart for example were around before skinz' demise, but I'm sort of following my path through this.
As each and every skinning site would open its doors, I'd drop in to see how it all hung together and if nothing else, register my name for continuity's sake.
So even now, after being treated like excretia by the admins at Custo, I am still a 'member' there to protect my name and not have some puerile rug-rat register it and attempt libel and slander by name confusion.
Annoying part was that 'Jafo' was taken at Devart by some on-line gamer who has no links to skinning and/or graphic art at all....hence my 'the-Jafo' there....
Cutting to the chase, Wincustomize.com is [maturity and common decency - wise] poles apart from Customize.org, and therefore for that reason alone, my 'most comfortable place to be'....
jcg
Reply #64 Friday, April 26, 2002 7:19 PM
Reply #64 Friday, April 26, 2002 7:19 PM
Jafo
I wasn't at skinz.org long enough to get a feel for the place, but when it went down and ls.net started having its difficulties I ran here. Regarding the maturity angle, you and I alone bring the average age here way up
I wasn't at skinz.org long enough to get a feel for the place, but when it went down and ls.net started having its difficulties I ran here. Regarding the maturity angle, you and I alone bring the average age here way up
Frogboy
Reply #65 Friday, April 26, 2002 8:36 PM
Reply #65 Friday, April 26, 2002 8:36 PM
Jafo pretty much speaks for me too on that. I can't remember how I found out about Customize.org. My UserID is in the low 3 digits even today (far lower than the admins today ). I remember what it was like and it had an edge but glenn and others did treat others with respect. The users could sometimes be obnoxiosu but the admins were good back then.
Somewhere down the line when it returned someone there got the idea to make the "man-child" types into actual admins.
I haven't figured out whether the problem in that discussion (if it can be called that) is a matter of the admins being unsophisticated thinkers or cynical spinners, but they have kept trying to spin it as a "Brad gets all mad everytime anyone criticizes WindowBlinds in any way." If I got mad everytime someone flamed WindowBlinds, I'd be mad all the time! An administrator is the official representative of a given website. And when they say things like "WindowBlinds sucks" or "Style XP is better" that's the site taking an official position.
It is painful to see how some people in that debate are trying to use moral equivalence. Trying to say that those admins are "just users who happen to have admin access." What BS. Especially given the fact that when *I* give my opinion, I'm not treated as "just some user", I'm suddenly "Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock" and apparently not entitled to opinions. Admins remarking on a news item about software on their site are supposed to be neutral observers, not cheer leaders.
One of them actually said something that pretty much sums up their whole moral structure: "People should use Style XP, not just because it's better but it's more virtuous." Those that know the background on the company that made it, and their actions will agree when I say that they deserve each other.
Somewhere down the line when it returned someone there got the idea to make the "man-child" types into actual admins.
I haven't figured out whether the problem in that discussion (if it can be called that) is a matter of the admins being unsophisticated thinkers or cynical spinners, but they have kept trying to spin it as a "Brad gets all mad everytime anyone criticizes WindowBlinds in any way." If I got mad everytime someone flamed WindowBlinds, I'd be mad all the time! An administrator is the official representative of a given website. And when they say things like "WindowBlinds sucks" or "Style XP is better" that's the site taking an official position.
It is painful to see how some people in that debate are trying to use moral equivalence. Trying to say that those admins are "just users who happen to have admin access." What BS. Especially given the fact that when *I* give my opinion, I'm not treated as "just some user", I'm suddenly "Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock" and apparently not entitled to opinions. Admins remarking on a news item about software on their site are supposed to be neutral observers, not cheer leaders.
One of them actually said something that pretty much sums up their whole moral structure: "People should use Style XP, not just because it's better but it's more virtuous." Those that know the background on the company that made it, and their actions will agree when I say that they deserve each other.
John Hamp
Reply #66 Friday, April 26, 2002 8:39 PM
Reply #66 Friday, April 26, 2002 8:39 PM
wow! Sorry I didn't mean to stir the pot by starting this whole thing. I don't have a account there thank god. My dad whose a pretty good biz guy has a saying "Failures are the ones who try to redefine success." Non-failures know success when they see it. There is no such thing as relativistic success.
JayG
Reply #67 Friday, April 26, 2002 11:30 PM
Reply #67 Friday, April 26, 2002 11:30 PM
bizarre. if all the losers of the net got together to create a putrid black hole of hatred and uglyness then it would look something like customize.org. truly a tragedy. so who owns customize.org?
Emily
Reply #68 Friday, April 26, 2002 11:59 PM
Reply #68 Friday, April 26, 2002 11:59 PM
Reading through that morass of hatred, envy, and deliquency was like watching a car wreck. It's wrong to gawk but it's hard to look away.
Maybe it is due to my gender but I must pose this question; why are you even dignifying them with a response?
Perhaps it would be instructive to pose it a different way. If you were all together in ''real life'' would you waste your effort trying to discuss something with some teenaged geek? You're dealing with anti social geeks over there. You can't reason with them. They don't know better. Teenagers know everything, remember?
Is the attention you are giving that ''slum'', an apt description, due to trying to convince them or trying to save the site from itself? It doesn't take a statistician to recognize a hopeless cause. Even the most casual of users can gauge the lack of meaningful activity on that website.
And the battle lines are drawn so clearly. Logic and reason is lost on testosterone addled teens. Nobody would waste their time on these pissants in real life, why give them the time of day?
Maybe it is due to my gender but I must pose this question; why are you even dignifying them with a response?
Perhaps it would be instructive to pose it a different way. If you were all together in ''real life'' would you waste your effort trying to discuss something with some teenaged geek? You're dealing with anti social geeks over there. You can't reason with them. They don't know better. Teenagers know everything, remember?
Is the attention you are giving that ''slum'', an apt description, due to trying to convince them or trying to save the site from itself? It doesn't take a statistician to recognize a hopeless cause. Even the most casual of users can gauge the lack of meaningful activity on that website.
And the battle lines are drawn so clearly. Logic and reason is lost on testosterone addled teens. Nobody would waste their time on these pissants in real life, why give them the time of day?
jcg
Reply #69 Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:11 AM
Reply #69 Saturday, April 27, 2002 12:11 AM
Emily,
First, most of the snotnoses in that forum wouldn't have the courage to say in person what they say under the cover of anonymity, so I don't know if the analogy is apt. But that aside, its the ignore-them-and-they'll-go-away attitude that has caused them to become what they are. They have to keep escalating their outrage until someone has to notice in order to inflate their low self esteem. Not that I think that there are unibombers in that crowd, but they are a bunch of bomb-throwers.
If Customize serves any purpose at all, it is a place where the disaffected can form a mutual admiration society, and leave the civilized alone.
First, most of the snotnoses in that forum wouldn't have the courage to say in person what they say under the cover of anonymity, so I don't know if the analogy is apt. But that aside, its the ignore-them-and-they'll-go-away attitude that has caused them to become what they are. They have to keep escalating their outrage until someone has to notice in order to inflate their low self esteem. Not that I think that there are unibombers in that crowd, but they are a bunch of bomb-throwers.
If Customize serves any purpose at all, it is a place where the disaffected can form a mutual admiration society, and leave the civilized alone.
paxx
Reply #70 Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:42 AM
Reply #70 Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:42 AM
jcg: "its the ignore-them-and-they'll-go-away attitude that has caused them to become what they are."
Exactly, they what they have become is almost disapear into oblivion. The site is ignored by just about everybody, and it's been getting worse for a while. Yes, eventually, they will just close the site.
Exactly, they what they have become is almost disapear into oblivion. The site is ignored by just about everybody, and it's been getting worse for a while. Yes, eventually, they will just close the site.
craeonics
Reply #71 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:01 AM
Reply #71 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:01 AM
craeonics sees a bonafide generation gap
If I'm not mistaken, customize is owned by revird and lamplighter, and I can't recall seeing them post anything.
Hmm, I hope that thread is still up by monday. Makes excellent work-avoiding reading material.
If I'm not mistaken, customize is owned by revird and lamplighter, and I can't recall seeing them post anything.
Hmm, I hope that thread is still up by monday. Makes excellent work-avoiding reading material.
grayhaze
Reply #72 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:40 AM
Reply #72 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:40 AM
It's not so much a generation gap crae, but rather a whole different way of thinking and of social interaction.
For the most part, the people who come to WC regularly seem to be pretty level-headed sensible people with a realistic perception of right and wrong, and what is appropriate for those in a position of power to be seen doing on their site.
On the other hand a large majority of the people who frequent Custo, and consider it to be a well-run site and a worthwhile thing to contribute to, seem to be of the 'they can't see us, so we can say whatever we want' mentality. During my years on the net, I've seen many a site go under once the majority of the users are of that mentality, and it only hurts a site to have admins who actively encourage such unreasonable behaviour.
I'm not saying everyone who considers themselves a part of Custo has a bad attitude, I'm just saying that if the admins set such a bad example, it's not surprising when the site begins to attract that element and repel those people who actually make a worthwhile contribution.
For the most part, the people who come to WC regularly seem to be pretty level-headed sensible people with a realistic perception of right and wrong, and what is appropriate for those in a position of power to be seen doing on their site.
On the other hand a large majority of the people who frequent Custo, and consider it to be a well-run site and a worthwhile thing to contribute to, seem to be of the 'they can't see us, so we can say whatever we want' mentality. During my years on the net, I've seen many a site go under once the majority of the users are of that mentality, and it only hurts a site to have admins who actively encourage such unreasonable behaviour.
I'm not saying everyone who considers themselves a part of Custo has a bad attitude, I'm just saying that if the admins set such a bad example, it's not surprising when the site begins to attract that element and repel those people who actually make a worthwhile contribution.
grayhaze
Reply #73 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:44 AM
Reply #73 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:44 AM
A good comparison to make is one between Custo and VelocityArt. VA has only been around for a relatively short space of time, but already it has established itself as a fun place to be. Just like Custo, the majority of regular visitors at VA tend to be in the younger age range, but somehow the attitudes of those people are worlds apart. The admins are friendly, laid back people who very rarely show any bias toward a particular skinnable app (Babya aside ), and yet they are actually younger than the admins at Custo. If the Custo guys want an example of a well-run site of similar size, they could do a lot worse than take a long hard look at VA.
), and yet they are actually younger than the admins at Custo. If the Custo guys want an example of a well-run site of similar size, they could do a lot worse than take a long hard look at VA.
Jafo
Reply #75 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:24 PM
Reply #75 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:24 PM
The reasons for our concerns, and/or dislike for Custo is that like it or not, they are 'part' of the skinning 'community' and outsiders new to this whole world of Skinning and proggy manipulation will not know any different and perhaps we all will be tarred with the same brush as Custo.
"Ewk...Custo is an abhorrent society, ergo all skinners must be creeps"...
I for one do not care for that 'reputation by proxy'....
"Ewk...Custo is an abhorrent society, ergo all skinners must be creeps"...
I for one do not care for that 'reputation by proxy'....
John Hamp
Reply #76 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:51 PM
Reply #76 Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:51 PM
I peered in today for today's entertainment. So now another admin has joined in the fray.
Posted by: darksheer (*.hsacorp.net)
4-27-2002, 20:32
Here comes darksheer again to break it down:
...........
Other Admins: Let it go...if he wants to bitch and moan like a 4 year old, let him. I'm sure our users are smart enough to understand when someone is being a dumbass.
Brad: Shut up and go away. If you hate our site so much...then leave. It certainly isn't worth all of our time to read your 10 page rants about how much we suck.
...........
What a fool. Why is he a fool? Because he's saying that brad is "bitching and moaning" when it was one of his admins that created the abusive thread in the first place. So.... in idiotville bitching and moaning is defending yourself in a post created to attack you.
The other funny part is that Brad had already posted that he was leaving a day before.
http://www.customize.org/forum/1756
Posted by: darksheer (*.hsacorp.net)
4-27-2002, 20:32
Here comes darksheer again to break it down:
...........
Other Admins: Let it go...if he wants to bitch and moan like a 4 year old, let him. I'm sure our users are smart enough to understand when someone is being a dumbass.
Brad: Shut up and go away. If you hate our site so much...then leave. It certainly isn't worth all of our time to read your 10 page rants about how much we suck.
...........
What a fool. Why is he a fool? Because he's saying that brad is "bitching and moaning" when it was one of his admins that created the abusive thread in the first place. So.... in idiotville bitching and moaning is defending yourself in a post created to attack you.
The other funny part is that Brad had already posted that he was leaving a day before.
http://www.customize.org/forum/1756
Frogboy
Reply #77 Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:08 PM
Reply #77 Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:08 PM
Yea the whole thing is just sad. I left yesterday, what more is there to say? I don't know who "Darkseer" is and frankly it doesn't matter. Whoever chooses the admins must purposely search out the worst human beings possible.
I removed the site from my bookmarks, there's nothing there. I'd remove my skins too but they don't have a way to remove their skins (goes to show how important they feel skinners rights are).
I removed the site from my bookmarks, there's nothing there. I'd remove my skins too but they don't have a way to remove their skins (goes to show how important they feel skinners rights are).
Jafo
Reply #78 Sunday, April 28, 2002 12:56 AM
Reply #78 Sunday, April 28, 2002 12:56 AM
Brad, do as I, and many, many others have had to resort to....publicly and openly request that your work be removed by an admin.
You will get some platitude about...'with regret' or 'perhaps you will return in the future in more friendly climes', or some such drivel posted to soften the public realization that many of the world's most respected and well-known skinners have left Custo because of mistreatment and abuse from the site's own staff.
Oh, you'll get comments of 'little boy is taking his bat and ball and going home', but the public misconception that your skins being hosted there somehow endorses the site will not become a factor....
You will get some platitude about...'with regret' or 'perhaps you will return in the future in more friendly climes', or some such drivel posted to soften the public realization that many of the world's most respected and well-known skinners have left Custo because of mistreatment and abuse from the site's own staff.
Oh, you'll get comments of 'little boy is taking his bat and ball and going home', but the public misconception that your skins being hosted there somehow endorses the site will not become a factor....
Robohead
Reply #79 Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:49 AM
Reply #79 Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:49 AM
Do you guys have no idea how hypocritical you are? You have this huge thread bashing custo.org. You can’t even see that what you're doing is pretty much the same thing you’re accusing them of. The only real difference being that instead of a bunch of teenagers, you're a bunch of 30 and 40 year olds who use more eloquent words (well, at least some of you). But the actions are the same. At least it’s somewhat understandable coming from a cocky kid who thinks he knows it all. What’s your excuse? This ‘Holier than thou’ attitude is a real turn off and is the reason I rarely ever frequent this site anymore. And the really sad part is, some of you won’t have a clue as to what I’m talking about.
I’m not saying the admins at custo are right. But if custo isn’t your thing, don’t go there anymore (sort of like me and this site), don’t start an “I hate Custo” thread.
Grayhaze and Paxx made some good points without hitting below the belt.
The world needs more people like Doreen and crae.
Adios
I’m not saying the admins at custo are right. But if custo isn’t your thing, don’t go there anymore (sort of like me and this site), don’t start an “I hate Custo” thread.
Grayhaze and Paxx made some good points without hitting below the belt.
The world needs more people like Doreen and crae.
Adios
DavidK
Reply #80 Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:14 AM
Reply #80 Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:14 AM
Robo - don't be too harsh.
there's plenty of love and kindness here too. Plus there's some compassion for custo mixed in with all the hurt and anger. I think it's just really confusing, disorienting, to get attacked publicly like that. It's an ugly thing and no amount of discussing it makes it any less ugly. I agree, this thread is painful too.
But Doreen and crae can post here without having to worry about being attacked and called names. If they were consistently treated that way here they'd probably have their own 'wtf is happening' thread somewhere else.
Don't go away... you're feelings are welcome here and so are all your contributions.
there's plenty of love and kindness here too. Plus there's some compassion for custo mixed in with all the hurt and anger. I think it's just really confusing, disorienting, to get attacked publicly like that. It's an ugly thing and no amount of discussing it makes it any less ugly. I agree, this thread is painful too.
But Doreen and crae can post here without having to worry about being attacked and called names. If they were consistently treated that way here they'd probably have their own 'wtf is happening' thread somewhere else.
Don't go away... you're feelings are welcome here and so are all your contributions.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 4 of 10 | |
|
|---|
Reply #61 Friday, April 26, 2002 6:44 PM