Getting into 3D skinning
Do you think it's coming?
Tuesday, March 20, 2007 by Frogboy | Discussion: Skinning
Programs like Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel, Paintshop Pro are pretty standard tools for most skinners.
But how many skinners are experts with programs like Maya and 3D Studio?
I ask this because one can imagine a day not so far in the future when skinning involves working with 3D Models.
In Windows Vista, Microsoft nearly had the Sidebar support DWM gadgets out of the box which used XAML and could be exported from 3D Studio as models. Imagine a true 3D object on your desktop for instance.
With Windows DreamScene and Stardock DeskScapes, for animated wallpaper, you can already see the demand for 3D rendered scenes (as opposed to just video files).
Do many, or even most, skinners who know 2D graphics design packages also have a familiarity with 3D modeling?
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-xino
Reply #62 Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:39 PM
Very nice IRaidedTheFridge.
I agree with that comment. Very good.
But that in itself is the point I was trying to get across. 3d seems so superfluous to me right now with WB skins. Until you have a reason to rotate a window or start menu or buttons in WB skin, 3d isn't needed. Since the skinning engine for Vista or XP doesn't allow 3d objects for the interface unfortunately, 3d will just be more of a hinderance than a tool right now.
Now for WMP skins, Winamp, icons, wallpapers, etc. it's an open door. I use 3d for those skins constantly. And I encourage everyone to (when the need for it arises).
But for a 2d skin (Windowblinds), there's no need for 3d when you can create it faster and more streamlined in Photoshop or the like.
Reply #62 Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:39 PM
Very nice IRaidedTheFridge.
I agree with that comment. Very good.
But that in itself is the point I was trying to get across. 3d seems so superfluous to me right now with WB skins. Until you have a reason to rotate a window or start menu or buttons in WB skin, 3d isn't needed. Since the skinning engine for Vista or XP doesn't allow 3d objects for the interface unfortunately, 3d will just be more of a hinderance than a tool right now.
Now for WMP skins, Winamp, icons, wallpapers, etc. it's an open door. I use 3d for those skins constantly. And I encourage everyone to (when the need for it arises).
But for a 2d skin (Windowblinds), there's no need for 3d when you can create it faster and more streamlined in Photoshop or the like.
IRaidedTheFridge
Reply #63 Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:36 PM
Reply #63 Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:36 PM
I haven't messed with animation much in WB skins, but it seems like theres a lot of open doors there where you could create objects that spin around and such. Xino, you're correct that its impossible to create a true 3D environment, but if someone really worked on it, i bet you could at least add elements of 3D realism into a skin. Maybe the next windows fx program will include some 3d stuff 
vStyler
Reply #64 Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:13 PM
Thats what xino just isn't getting i'm afraid.. were not talking about a true 3d interface, obviously that is way down the road, merely using 3d apps to create a 3d effect so to speak. And xino, i'd like to see you pull off 3d objects faster and easier in photoshop. How about some examples of that?
Reply #64 Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:13 PM
i bet you could at least add elements of 3D realism into a skin.
Thats what xino just isn't getting i'm afraid.. were not talking about a true 3d interface, obviously that is way down the road, merely using 3d apps to create a 3d effect so to speak. And xino, i'd like to see you pull off 3d objects faster and easier in photoshop. How about some examples of that?
Jafo
Reply #65 Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:33 PM
Reply #65 Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:33 PM
Programs like Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel, Paintshop Pro are pretty standard tools for most skinners.
But how many skinners are experts with programs like Maya and 3D Studio?
But how many skinners are experts with programs like Maya and 3D Studio?
In the Architecture world this is akin to the differences between ACAD and Revit.
Both can arrive at the same result....namely a 2 dimensional working drawing, but the methodology of arriving at the printable result is quite different.
The former is a hackneyed re-hash of antiquated tech-drag manual thinking...the latter actually draws the way an Architect thinks...rather than the way a Draftsman thinks.
The outcomes can be identical....but the journeys aren't...
GH33DA
Reply #66 Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:26 PM
But that in itself is the point I was trying to get across. 3d seems so superfluous to me right now with WB skins. Until you have a reason to rotate a window or start menu or buttons in WB skin, 3d isn't needed. Since the skinning engine for Vista or XP doesn't allow 3d objects for the interface unfortunately, 3d will just be more of a hinderance than a tool right now.
Now for WMP skins, Winamp, icons, wallpapers, etc. it's an open door. I use 3d for those skins constantly. And I encourage everyone to (when the need for it arises).
But for a 2d skin (Windowblinds), there's no need for 3d when you can create it faster and more streamlined in Photoshop or the like.
I think using "no need" and "hindrance" are a bit close minded. Some people here can create objects FASTER in 3ds max than Photoshop. Especially if you know what you're doing. And when it comes to animated skins, 3D tools tend to be more effective to an even larger group of skinners.
Shameless Plug
Reply #66 Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:26 PM
But that in itself is the point I was trying to get across. 3d seems so superfluous to me right now with WB skins. Until you have a reason to rotate a window or start menu or buttons in WB skin, 3d isn't needed. Since the skinning engine for Vista or XP doesn't allow 3d objects for the interface unfortunately, 3d will just be more of a hinderance than a tool right now.
Now for WMP skins, Winamp, icons, wallpapers, etc. it's an open door. I use 3d for those skins constantly. And I encourage everyone to (when the need for it arises).
But for a 2d skin (Windowblinds), there's no need for 3d when you can create it faster and more streamlined in Photoshop or the like.
I think using "no need" and "hindrance" are a bit close minded. Some people here can create objects FASTER in 3ds max than Photoshop. Especially if you know what you're doing. And when it comes to animated skins, 3D tools tend to be more effective to an even larger group of skinners.
Shameless Plug
vStyler
Reply #67 Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:19 PM
Reply #67 Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:19 PM
Close minded indeed.
nice job on the panorama.. wheres the Dream?
nice job on the panorama.. wheres the Dream?
-xino
Reply #69 Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:52 PM
Reply #69 Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:52 PM
whatever.
I've tried to give my own personal opinions and my experiences with the programs I've used for years. Yet every time I do someone has to make a seemingly personal attack. whether you believe it or not "close-minded" is an attack and personal.
I have yet to argue with anyone on here and disparage their own opinions. I merely speak from my own experience in using 3d to create a windowblinds skin.
any photoshop user worth his skill can easily create a an object from the shape tool, add a gloss overlay, drop down the opacity, use the airbrush for little touches of highlights, add a drop shadow using a layer style or a black object blurred or airbrushing. that step I just stated right there only takes a few minutes. yet in 3d, you need to create a shape, use a deformation tool on it. set up the lighting, then texture wrap it. that in and of itself takes at least an hour for a simple object.
so forgive me if you don't agree with me. I never tried to make anyone think like me. don't state that "just because you can't do it.." the point is I can do it, but it's not nearly as useful to use a 3d program as it is to create the 3d-like object in photoshop. it's quicker and more streamlined.
I can give many examples of other artists out there who use these same techniques, but I can tell from the tone of some of these messages that no one cares to actually listen or do the research.
this is the sole reason why I never get involved in forums of any kind until I saw this post. no one can seem to disagree without making personal judgements. this will be my last WC forum post. Although I'm sure vstyler will just love that.
I've tried to give my own personal opinions and my experiences with the programs I've used for years. Yet every time I do someone has to make a seemingly personal attack. whether you believe it or not "close-minded" is an attack and personal.
I have yet to argue with anyone on here and disparage their own opinions. I merely speak from my own experience in using 3d to create a windowblinds skin.
any photoshop user worth his skill can easily create a an object from the shape tool, add a gloss overlay, drop down the opacity, use the airbrush for little touches of highlights, add a drop shadow using a layer style or a black object blurred or airbrushing. that step I just stated right there only takes a few minutes. yet in 3d, you need to create a shape, use a deformation tool on it. set up the lighting, then texture wrap it. that in and of itself takes at least an hour for a simple object.
so forgive me if you don't agree with me. I never tried to make anyone think like me. don't state that "just because you can't do it.." the point is I can do it, but it's not nearly as useful to use a 3d program as it is to create the 3d-like object in photoshop. it's quicker and more streamlined.
I can give many examples of other artists out there who use these same techniques, but I can tell from the tone of some of these messages that no one cares to actually listen or do the research.
this is the sole reason why I never get involved in forums of any kind until I saw this post. no one can seem to disagree without making personal judgements. this will be my last WC forum post. Although I'm sure vstyler will just love that.
vStyler
Reply #70 Friday, April 13, 2007 12:20 AM
Yes, because thats so much quicker than draw and render.
I'm listening.. lets see it please... although I would personally prefer examples of your own quicker and streamlined work..something you made in PS that looks as good as if it was made in MAX and that you did quicker.
Also, please don't come off like someone did you some dis-favor becuase no-one has..not anymore than your preceding comments anyway.. a few have disagreed with you is all. Please, feel free to enlighten me and whoever else cares to listen and look. Perhaps I can learn something.
I have no wish whatsoever for you to leave the forum , thats your choice.
Reply #70 Friday, April 13, 2007 12:20 AM
any photoshop user worth his skill can easily create a an object from the shape tool, add a gloss overlay, drop down the opacity, use the airbrush for little touches of highlights, add a drop shadow using a layer style or a black object blurred or airbrushing.
Yes, because thats so much quicker than draw and render.
I can give many examples of other artists out there who use these same techniques, but I can tell from the tone of some of these messages that no one cares to actually listen or do the research.
I'm listening.. lets see it please... although I would personally prefer examples of your own quicker and streamlined work..something you made in PS that looks as good as if it was made in MAX and that you did quicker.
Also, please don't come off like someone did you some dis-favor becuase no-one has..not anymore than your preceding comments anyway.. a few have disagreed with you is all. Please, feel free to enlighten me and whoever else cares to listen and look. Perhaps I can learn something.
I have no wish whatsoever for you to leave the forum , thats your choice. Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #61 Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:02 AM