Serious Ratings Abuse Still Happening
rehashing an old favorite
Saturday, February 19, 2005 by Phoon | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I can't help but notice that as of late, there has been some serious rating slamming happening particularly in the Windowblinds section.
There have been some fine themes that are getting hammered with 1 and 2 stars and some mediocre themes getting 3 and 4.
When Boxxi puts out a new one like Gold Carbon and its getting rated at 2 stars, I think that is proof enough.
It seems we have hashed and rehashed this issue, yet nothing ever gets done about it.
Why can't we have the following rules for ratings, it WOULD do a great deal to solve the issue.
#1) If you are going to rate, you MUST leave a comment.
#2) Your username, comment and rating are visible to the skinner at least.
There have been some fine themes that are getting hammered with 1 and 2 stars and some mediocre themes getting 3 and 4.
When Boxxi puts out a new one like Gold Carbon and its getting rated at 2 stars, I think that is proof enough.
It seems we have hashed and rehashed this issue, yet nothing ever gets done about it.
Why can't we have the following rules for ratings, it WOULD do a great deal to solve the issue.
#1) If you are going to rate, you MUST leave a comment.
#2) Your username, comment and rating are visible to the skinner at least.
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MadDeez
Reply #62 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:05 PM
Reply #62 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:05 PM
your programs list is 5 panels wide? you have a serious need for editing that baby down. create some master folders and move some of your folders into those. this is only a suggestion. if you're happy with that many program folders, so be it 
Bichur
Reply #63 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:13 PM
Reply #63 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:13 PM
I hear ya. I'm just lazy and cluttered. Is there an easy way to shrink the skin? I use other skins that only show 3-4 panels but they all fit on one screen.
Should have seen it when I accidently tried that huge resolution 'incredibles' destopx - wifey was yelling at me from the livingroom cuz it shot all the way to the tv.
Should have seen it when I accidently tried that huge resolution 'incredibles' destopx - wifey was yelling at me from the livingroom cuz it shot all the way to the tv.
wmsco
Reply #64 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:51 PM
Reply #64 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:51 PM
By reading Articals of this type I have seen in the last three mths these are points I like to point out!
1. number of downloads dont matter.
2. you have to be educated to rate
3. Rank has value not the above
4. this is a skinner site for and by skinners always has been and always will be (jafo)
5. Not eye appeal but Quality/originality
6. Do not expect a reason why (e-mail) ect. (It is not in the rules)
Now take the 6 points as I have wrote them down and put them in a upside down triangle and thats how your are rated!
Is it fair? well by this type articals obviously not!
Will it change? I point out no.#4.
PROBLEM:Many of US meaning old and new are of the mind set of no.#1 Which is not the case followed by no.#4
But many of us want GOOD Quality skins so that has to be considered, possibley a nother rating for Quality ect. followed by no.#4.
Please google this site for this subject if I'm lying I'm dyin and you will see these points and you will also see no.#4 being represented many times meaning there site there rules there opinion and that all that matters and interestingly enough it is the same people.
So this subject is dead a waste of time the only good is you might feel better after ranting untill nxt time
1. number of downloads dont matter.
2. you have to be educated to rate
3. Rank has value not the above
4. this is a skinner site for and by skinners always has been and always will be (jafo)
5. Not eye appeal but Quality/originality
6. Do not expect a reason why (e-mail) ect. (It is not in the rules)
Now take the 6 points as I have wrote them down and put them in a upside down triangle and thats how your are rated!
Is it fair? well by this type articals obviously not!
Will it change? I point out no.#4.
PROBLEM:Many of US meaning old and new are of the mind set of no.#1 Which is not the case followed by no.#4
But many of us want GOOD Quality skins so that has to be considered, possibley a nother rating for Quality ect. followed by no.#4.
Please google this site for this subject if I'm lying I'm dyin and you will see these points and you will also see no.#4 being represented many times meaning there site there rules there opinion and that all that matters and interestingly enough it is the same people.
So this subject is dead a waste of time the only good is you might feel better after ranting untill nxt time
~Angelic DestinE
Reply #65 Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:20 PM
Reply #65 Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:20 PM
Yeah I mean maybe people are giving something 3 stars (which means a 6) and thinking that that is a good enough rating. I still say, do away with the policy that only skins with ratings above 7 can be visible to all. I think this would knock out a whole lot of the hurt feelings, people leaving the site, getting angry, and overall sentiment of disillusion that people are feeling as of late. To me, it would be a huge step in the right direction.
~Angelic DestinE
Reply #66 Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:23 PM
Exactly the point I made in the other thread. Have 2 separate criteria for the ratings. That way people can know if their hard work is really appreciated and liked.
Reply #66 Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:23 PM
| Well, Powers that be, here is a tip: Have 2 seperate ratings systems, similar to the Oscars & People's Choice. The Oscars: The Academy, the Peers, the So-called "Experts" vote (Those tend to beleive that they are above the rest and their vote is what really counts) The Poeple's: The Masses, the ones who download, rent, buy.(they like, they use, they admire, they vote) |
Exactly the point I made in the other thread. Have 2 separate criteria for the ratings. That way people can know if their hard work is really appreciated and liked.
krazyone959
Reply #67 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:42 PM
Reply #67 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:42 PM
People this is a dead end street we might as well all turn around and go back the other way, its like why shoot a dead horse? We can all rant til we are blue in the face and its not going to change anything!Its like why waste your breathe nobody is gonna listen so just take a valium and relax its not worth getting your blood pressure up,lol!
Frogboy
Reply #68 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:18 PM
Reply #68 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:18 PM
The rating system is working as designed.
I submit to you that Boxxi, who is a wizop here, has a skin that is being debated and "only" has 2.5 stars is proof that there is no bias involved. Even guys like me and Boxxi, who are high access people and have been here since the beginning, regularly put out skins that are rated as average (2.5 stars).
It is also getting a bit annoying, after having been corrected, that some people persist in claiming that WindowBlinds skins require a 3.5 star rating to be seen by anonymous users. This is false and demonstratably false (just log out and look for crying out loud).
There will always be people unhappy with the rating system. And if we did away with it and made for a warm fuzzy happy fluffy site where everything was 5 stars and shown to the world, then people wouls stop coming here because they would be unable to sift through the poor quality content.
Your options are: Either harsh moderation where we outright reject content that we think is not of the highest quality or a rating system where users who have earned the right through contributing to WinCustomize in one form or other give their views on skins and themes.
Jafo
Reply #70 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:40 PM
Reply #70 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:40 PM
The rating system works perfectly as it was intended.
1.8 million people can see every single skin on the site....and they have that right because they chose to join Wincustomize.com and benefit from membership.
The casual non-member has his access limited/restricted by a filter established by a concensus of members' opinion.
If the casual viewer sees impressive content [through filtering] he may be enticed to join...and thus have access to all as well.
That's it in a nutshell...
Double Zero
Reply #71 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 PM
Reply #71 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 PM
::raises hand:: I have a question Jafo ..::laughs:: Just a clarification of your statement for no other purpose than for me to understand *Exactly what you mean.. I plan on becoming a member regardless..but..here goes..
Are you saying that some content that would normally get a higher rating is "Downrated" for the purpose of non-member "Casual visitors" benefit for the purpose of hopefully obtaining membership?
I apologize if I misunderstand, thats why I have asked.
Zero.
Are you saying that some content that would normally get a higher rating is "Downrated" for the purpose of non-member "Casual visitors" benefit for the purpose of hopefully obtaining membership?
I apologize if I misunderstand, thats why I have asked.
Zero.
Jafo
Reply #72 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:15 PM
Reply #72 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:15 PM
Citizen Double Zero nothing is 'down-rated'.
Everything is simply 'rated'.
The filtering is intended to be naturally set by the Registered Users' opinion/input....
Corky_O
Reply #74 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:28 PM
Reply #74 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:28 PM
Frogboy,
I apologize for indicating that 3.5 stars or above are required for skins to be viewable by casual viewers. I did as you asked (logged out and looked) and saw that you were 100% correct.
I will prevent any more incorrect technical statements by not speaking before complete verification.
Again, I apologize.
I apologize for indicating that 3.5 stars or above are required for skins to be viewable by casual viewers. I did as you asked (logged out and looked) and saw that you were 100% correct.
I will prevent any more incorrect technical statements by not speaking before complete verification.
Again, I apologize.
Frogboy
Reply #75 Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:07 PM
Reply #75 Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:07 PM
Hi Corky, no problem. I actually hadn't noticed you having said that. I was referring to Angel who I had corrected in another thread right before you wrote here.
maeujo
Reply #76 Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:17 PM
Reply #76 Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:17 PM
I have just recently suscribed to wincostomize (just last month) so I still got alot to learn about using this site. But here is an idea that may or may not work for you. How about showing two ratings on a skin. One would show the over all rating for the of the artist of the skin, and the other would show the rating on that perticular skin.
I also feel, as some of the users of this site, that it is only fair to the artist to first download and try the skin before rating it. I did just that with the gold carbon skin. I then left a rating and comment about it.
I think that idea #1 may turn out counter productive because if people have to leave a comment, they my not give the artist a rating at all.
I do think that idea #2 is a good idea because it would allow the artist of the skin to see what the users of the skin had to say, and from that the artist could decide what they could change on that skin or in any another skin that they make.
I also feel, as some of the users of this site, that it is only fair to the artist to first download and try the skin before rating it. I did just that with the gold carbon skin. I then left a rating and comment about it.
I think that idea #1 may turn out counter productive because if people have to leave a comment, they my not give the artist a rating at all.
I do think that idea #2 is a good idea because it would allow the artist of the skin to see what the users of the skin had to say, and from that the artist could decide what they could change on that skin or in any another skin that they make.
Cyberworld
Reply #77 Monday, February 21, 2005 5:03 PM
Reply #77 Monday, February 21, 2005 5:03 PM
Hey ya all,been on ski trip for da weekend 
,just got back and well feelin extremely happy and in creativity spree 
.Quite activity in forums as well .Well just saw the thread and for all itw worth i just took 5 mins to think and shoot. So here goes...
Rating system change proposed:
A skin is fair enough to have the benefit of doubt so a good point to begin with is to have it taken in with a solid 6,one above average rating. As it is done,for the rest of rating system see below...
Suppose we have a rating as a 100% score,then the following percentages should be given as below:
a. Original Artist: 10%,it's the guy who created the skin,so he has right to judge it.This rating is to be shown by the skin.If an artist tries to become abusive (e.g. constantly giving himself a pat in the back with a standard 10 rating) i believe the public will show its reaction/gratitude.
b. WC Subscribers: 30%,the people who support the community and it's fair enough to rate,but with the obligation to leave a comment stating reason why.I propose ratings moderation,if no reason is given (e.g.Just saying its good or bad or crap or beautiful etc) then rating should be: 1. Valued to the 66% of its worth if 7 and above(e.g. If a 9 was given with no reason then be undervalued to 6) 2. Valued to 80% of its worth for ratings between 4-7 (e.g. If 6 was given with no reason then be undervalued to 4.8) 3. Valued to 150% of its worth for ratings from 1-3 (e.g. If 2 is given with no reason then be overvalued to 3).
c. WC Journeyman and above title: 30%,these are people who are chosen to become who they are because they are of recognised importance and experience,thus their opinion is valuable.They are also supposed to be trustworthy people.To be able to rate would be available to them only when downloading the skin (e.g. The rate system to activate only when hitting download button),but don't have to give reason why as WC Subscribers.
d. Download Counters: 20%, cause its the only way for the general public in WC to express opinion.This should work with milestones and would work as additive to the original 6 grade the skin is given: E.g. Ratings to downloads milestones example climax:
6=1000
7=2000
8=3000
9=5000
10=10000
e. Moderator who approved the skin: 10%,the one responsible for accepting skin into library should also rate it after approval,obligatory rating with a symbolic value,but showing the opinion of the mod,should be only referred in the acception e-mail,no public announcing,no commenting,just for the author to know.
All in all the ratings shown on site would be the Author's rating and the overall rating after some math.
Hope this sounds like a good plan for rating,tried to made it fair enough,dunno if it's technically possible,dunno if it's functional,haven't yet tried to judge from a distance for fairness or what possibilities of abuse are available,yet still a suggestion .Hope someone gives this a look
,just got back and well feelin extremely happy and in creativity spree 
.Quite activity in forums as well .Well just saw the thread and for all itw worth i just took 5 mins to think and shoot. So here goes... Rating system change proposed:
A skin is fair enough to have the benefit of doubt so a good point to begin with is to have it taken in with a solid 6,one above average rating. As it is done,for the rest of rating system see below...
Suppose we have a rating as a 100% score,then the following percentages should be given as below:
a. Original Artist: 10%,it's the guy who created the skin,so he has right to judge it.This rating is to be shown by the skin.If an artist tries to become abusive (e.g. constantly giving himself a pat in the back with a standard 10 rating) i believe the public will show its reaction/gratitude.
b. WC Subscribers: 30%,the people who support the community and it's fair enough to rate,but with the obligation to leave a comment stating reason why.I propose ratings moderation,if no reason is given (e.g.Just saying its good or bad or crap or beautiful etc) then rating should be: 1. Valued to the 66% of its worth if 7 and above(e.g. If a 9 was given with no reason then be undervalued to 6) 2. Valued to 80% of its worth for ratings between 4-7 (e.g. If 6 was given with no reason then be undervalued to 4.8) 3. Valued to 150% of its worth for ratings from 1-3 (e.g. If 2 is given with no reason then be overvalued to 3).
c. WC Journeyman and above title: 30%,these are people who are chosen to become who they are because they are of recognised importance and experience,thus their opinion is valuable.They are also supposed to be trustworthy people.To be able to rate would be available to them only when downloading the skin (e.g. The rate system to activate only when hitting download button),but don't have to give reason why as WC Subscribers.
d. Download Counters: 20%, cause its the only way for the general public in WC to express opinion.This should work with milestones and would work as additive to the original 6 grade the skin is given: E.g. Ratings to downloads milestones example climax:
6=1000
7=2000
8=3000
9=5000
10=10000
e. Moderator who approved the skin: 10%,the one responsible for accepting skin into library should also rate it after approval,obligatory rating with a symbolic value,but showing the opinion of the mod,should be only referred in the acception e-mail,no public announcing,no commenting,just for the author to know.
All in all the ratings shown on site would be the Author's rating and the overall rating after some math.
Hope this sounds like a good plan for rating,tried to made it fair enough,dunno if it's technically possible,dunno if it's functional,haven't yet tried to judge from a distance for fairness or what possibilities of abuse are available,yet still a suggestion
.Hope someone gives this a look
WOM
Reply #78 Monday, February 21, 2005 6:21 PM
Reply #78 Monday, February 21, 2005 6:21 PM
So if you are a Journeyman or above and a subscriber your rating is 60%? Which does the person have to do, download or comment or both? Way to much to code for I would think. But I don't pay -
an's salary.
an's salary.
kona0197
Reply #79 Monday, February 21, 2005 7:38 PM
I agree with that idea. DL counts should count for something besides just counts.
Reply #79 Monday, February 21, 2005 7:38 PM
| d. Download Counters: 20%, cause its the only way for the general public in WC to express opinion.This should work with milestones and would work as additive to the original 6 grade the skin is given: E.g. Ratings to downloads milestones example climax: 6=1000 7=2000 8=3000 9=5000 10=10000 |
I agree with that idea. DL counts should count for something besides just counts.
Phoon
Reply #80 Monday, February 21, 2005 7:55 PM
It's no use coming up with any more ideas. It seems that the Admins are happy with this system.
Sorry I brought it up, I for one thought it was a problem. Guess not...
Reply #80 Monday, February 21, 2005 7:55 PM
| The rating system works perfectly as it was intended. |
| The rating system is working as designed. |
It's no use coming up with any more ideas. It seems that the Admins are happy with this system.
Sorry I brought it up, I for one thought it was a problem. Guess not...
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Reply #61 Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:42 PM
doesn't the numbers of downloads speak for themselves?
I'm not quite sure I agree. I have a load of skins that I don't/can't use. I did not rate all of them and I didn't leave a comment. Why? In part due to me knowing I have a lot ignorance in the area of skinning & I didn't want to come off as trashing somebody on the unuseability (by me)of a skin and then have someone else come back an go "hey, all ya gotta do is go in and click this".
My example: the rogue protons [I am in no way trying to flame/trash I.R.B.!] - I like the colors alot, love the way they look... but I can't use them. I have a 15in monitor - 1024x768... when I apply the protons my 'all programs' list is 5 panels wide & I can only see 3 of them.
Hence the disagreement(somewhat)with the above comments. How many of the 'popular' downloads were by people like me? I looked at the screen shot, read some reviews and downloaded it cuz I liked what I saw. Then I applied it, tried it, found I can't use it & then reapplied something else.
Just my 2 cents, since I don't have a solution.