Serious Ratings Abuse Still Happening
rehashing an old favorite
Saturday, February 19, 2005 by Phoon | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I can't help but notice that as of late, there has been some serious rating slamming happening particularly in the Windowblinds section.
There have been some fine themes that are getting hammered with 1 and 2 stars and some mediocre themes getting 3 and 4.
When Boxxi puts out a new one like Gold Carbon and its getting rated at 2 stars, I think that is proof enough.
It seems we have hashed and rehashed this issue, yet nothing ever gets done about it.
Why can't we have the following rules for ratings, it WOULD do a great deal to solve the issue.
#1) If you are going to rate, you MUST leave a comment.
#2) Your username, comment and rating are visible to the skinner at least.
There have been some fine themes that are getting hammered with 1 and 2 stars and some mediocre themes getting 3 and 4.
When Boxxi puts out a new one like Gold Carbon and its getting rated at 2 stars, I think that is proof enough.
It seems we have hashed and rehashed this issue, yet nothing ever gets done about it.
Why can't we have the following rules for ratings, it WOULD do a great deal to solve the issue.
#1) If you are going to rate, you MUST leave a comment.
#2) Your username, comment and rating are visible to the skinner at least.
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Boss019
Reply #42 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:52 AM
Reply #42 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:52 AM
Bean, I was just kind of responding to your comment in #28 that some people KNOW that the more they rate they will become #1..of course I have nothing against you, I just know, or think I do, that you communicate a fair amount with the #1 abuser of the ratings system..In My Opinion..and was enlightening you to my feelings on the matter
gooberbean28
Reply #43 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:58 AM
Reply #43 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:58 AM
I understand what your saying Boss, I'm just trying to help figure a way some of this ratings abuse can be straightened out , these skinners take alot of time and expect some reasonable feedback on the art they design.I cant control what others do on their comps,lol 
Corky_O
Reply #44 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:13 AM
Reply #44 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:13 AM
I have to agree with Phoon's rules in the original statement to open thread.
If I am not mistaken, the ratings are also used to specify which art is displayed to general public users who do not have an account.
I believe that only 3-1/2 stars (7) or above are viewable without logging in. Unless this portion of the ratings use is changed, it might be a lot of work for the Administrators and Moderators to identify which art is to be displayed to the general public and which is not.
In light of this, I believe Phoon's idea to be the best alternative and fairly realistic to implement without creating a huge addition to the work load already facing the staff.
Just my 2 cents.
If I am not mistaken, the ratings are also used to specify which art is displayed to general public users who do not have an account.
I believe that only 3-1/2 stars (7) or above are viewable without logging in. Unless this portion of the ratings use is changed, it might be a lot of work for the Administrators and Moderators to identify which art is to be displayed to the general public and which is not.
In light of this, I believe Phoon's idea to be the best alternative and fairly realistic to implement without creating a huge addition to the work load already facing the staff.
Just my 2 cents.
horiz0n
Reply #45 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:18 AM
Reply #45 Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:18 AM
Ratings help with searching, and there are plenty of people who really do appreciate the ratings, so getting rid of it seems much less than neccesary. How much abuse are people REALLY sure is happening anyway? Just because something has a low rating means abuse? Lets tell Jafo straight-a-way so he can put that evil-doer in his place? As if they're not entitled to make such opinions. Some stuff deserves a low rating, and basically everyone that can evaluate the skin has the right to rate it whatever the hell they want.
People only start to whine/complain/bicker/feel wronged or whatever level of disagreement ensues, when they get a low rating. OMG a 2 rating, foul play...FOUL PLAY!!! SYSTEM ABUSE!!!!111oneone. My best advice is to GET OVER IT, the only way to make these people happy is to change the system from 1-10 to 7-10. A low rating doesn't instantly or even probably by the majority, mean abuse.
Not that abuse isn't out there, but how much of it's low rates? Do you not think as much as someone might rate something low for the wrong reasons i.e. "i dont like this person". How much do you think people rate their friends high for no other reason than they ARE their friends or they're "important". And why do people keep thinking that just because a particular person uploads a skin, that he/she automatically deserves a high rating just because of who they are?
No one deserves a high rating because of what name they have, or title they use, or whatever else they've done, or any of that crap. The skin is getting rated not the person. Do people really find it THAT neccesary to suck up? Oh look at particular person just uploaded a skin, he's a admin/higher up/important for some reason/friend/big community member/popular in general, lets rate him high and leave a "you r0x0rz dude" comment.
Besides, a rating of one person is important, but these work on an average, so the most logical complaint is more people should rate, if 30 people rate and it gets a 4, what can you say? All 30 people are heartless rating system abusing meanies? And why should anyone other than admins have knowledge of who rated them what? If I voted for Bush and the state of indiana whines about it should they be able to exclude my vote, or deem it wrong, or know who the hell I voted for at all? Would we need to backup every vote with a 2 paragraph comment like, well Bush did this or that, and Kerry didn't so I'm going this way, plus the whole tax thing, and Kerry looks too much like Jay Leno. Screw that, your vote counts whether you tell the rest of the world why or not, and they know you voted FOR a reason. Whether it's just "my" opinion or not doesn't matter, rating is opinion based, not fact based. And nothing like "but he put so much work into it" matters much either. You can spend your entire life making crap, and 2 hours making a masterpiece. But people have the right to describe in whatever way they feel to be true, some people like crap.
Boss019 rates Boxxi low(ish) should he worry about giving his honest opinion just because Boxxi is an admin? Should he feel like he's done something wrong? Can you prove he's wrong? Should his rating on the skin be reset just because he didn't say "boxxi is the man and i rated you a 10!!". Should anyone feel insulted when getting a low rating? Or should they take REAL feedback in a positive way? If it gets a 10 awesome. If it gets a 3, maybe you should figure out WHY AND FIX IT. You can always improve on it, whats the point of whining about it and getting the rating boosted just to make someone feel better?
One might also take note that his rating has already changed from a 4 to a 5, what that means is able to be interpreted many a ways, maybe he'll end up with a 9 on that one, maybe not. Maybe it's just the people rating have a different taste. Ratings is just one type of feedback of basically 3, each work different, and for what it's worth, probably SHOULD.
And being forced to leave a comment? What good will that do? It just highlights someone to be open for being a target. The people that rate good don't do any different when they rate poorly. Like someone giving something a 3 rating needs to give more opinion than "I don't like it, or I don't think it works well." The people that rate high don't do anything better! They just give a high rating, and if they say anything at all, it's typically, "nice, i like it, and all your work." Well geez how can one argue with that, "nice, i like it" sure says a lot, and definetly backs up that 10 rating you just handed out eh? No one complains about giving high ratings and not commenting.
ANYWAYS, this all comes down to one thing, people think they themselves or other certain people ALWAYS deserve a high rating, it just isn't that way, so stop whining, stop crying wolf, stop assuming because someone didn't give a high rating to someone you deserve to know who they are, or that they're an abuser, stop acting like low ratings are the only kind of abuse, and stop acting like you can stop the abuse, or that ratings are the only thing that GET abused. And uhhh if you are thinking I'm calling out anyone specific, stop that too please
I don't need to come back later and see "shut your mouth horiz0n I'm not like that" cause I didn't say you were 
On something I think is important in my eyes, essencay wins todays lottery imo. When a normal user submits a skin, if I'm the first to rate it, and I give it a 1 it goes to like a 4, if I rate it a 10, it's going to be around an 8 or so. When a journyman submits and I'm the first to rate, if I give it a 1, it goes to 1, if I give him/her a 10, they get an instant 10. Thats the only thing I see worth changing.
People only start to whine/complain/bicker/feel wronged or whatever level of disagreement ensues, when they get a low rating. OMG a 2 rating, foul play...FOUL PLAY!!! SYSTEM ABUSE!!!!111oneone. My best advice is to GET OVER IT, the only way to make these people happy is to change the system from 1-10 to 7-10. A low rating doesn't instantly or even probably by the majority, mean abuse.
Not that abuse isn't out there, but how much of it's low rates? Do you not think as much as someone might rate something low for the wrong reasons i.e. "i dont like this person". How much do you think people rate their friends high for no other reason than they ARE their friends or they're "important". And why do people keep thinking that just because a particular person uploads a skin, that he/she automatically deserves a high rating just because of who they are?
No one deserves a high rating because of what name they have, or title they use, or whatever else they've done, or any of that crap. The skin is getting rated not the person. Do people really find it THAT neccesary to suck up? Oh look at particular person just uploaded a skin, he's a admin/higher up/important for some reason/friend/big community member/popular in general, lets rate him high and leave a "you r0x0rz dude" comment.
Besides, a rating of one person is important, but these work on an average, so the most logical complaint is more people should rate, if 30 people rate and it gets a 4, what can you say? All 30 people are heartless rating system abusing meanies? And why should anyone other than admins have knowledge of who rated them what? If I voted for Bush and the state of indiana whines about it should they be able to exclude my vote, or deem it wrong, or know who the hell I voted for at all? Would we need to backup every vote with a 2 paragraph comment like, well Bush did this or that, and Kerry didn't so I'm going this way, plus the whole tax thing, and Kerry looks too much like Jay Leno. Screw that, your vote counts whether you tell the rest of the world why or not, and they know you voted FOR a reason. Whether it's just "my" opinion or not doesn't matter, rating is opinion based, not fact based. And nothing like "but he put so much work into it" matters much either. You can spend your entire life making crap, and 2 hours making a masterpiece. But people have the right to describe in whatever way they feel to be true, some people like crap.
Boss019 rates Boxxi low(ish) should he worry about giving his honest opinion just because Boxxi is an admin? Should he feel like he's done something wrong? Can you prove he's wrong? Should his rating on the skin be reset just because he didn't say "boxxi is the man and i rated you a 10!!". Should anyone feel insulted when getting a low rating? Or should they take REAL feedback in a positive way? If it gets a 10 awesome. If it gets a 3, maybe you should figure out WHY AND FIX IT. You can always improve on it, whats the point of whining about it and getting the rating boosted just to make someone feel better?
One might also take note that his rating has already changed from a 4 to a 5, what that means is able to be interpreted many a ways, maybe he'll end up with a 9 on that one, maybe not. Maybe it's just the people rating have a different taste. Ratings is just one type of feedback of basically 3, each work different, and for what it's worth, probably SHOULD.
And being forced to leave a comment? What good will that do? It just highlights someone to be open for being a target. The people that rate good don't do any different when they rate poorly. Like someone giving something a 3 rating needs to give more opinion than "I don't like it, or I don't think it works well." The people that rate high don't do anything better! They just give a high rating, and if they say anything at all, it's typically, "nice, i like it, and all your work." Well geez how can one argue with that, "nice, i like it" sure says a lot, and definetly backs up that 10 rating you just handed out eh? No one complains about giving high ratings and not commenting.
ANYWAYS, this all comes down to one thing, people think they themselves or other certain people ALWAYS deserve a high rating, it just isn't that way, so stop whining, stop crying wolf, stop assuming because someone didn't give a high rating to someone you deserve to know who they are, or that they're an abuser, stop acting like low ratings are the only kind of abuse, and stop acting like you can stop the abuse, or that ratings are the only thing that GET abused. And uhhh if you are thinking I'm calling out anyone specific, stop that too please
I don't need to come back later and see "shut your mouth horiz0n I'm not like that" cause I didn't say you were 
On something I think is important in my eyes, essencay wins todays lottery imo. When a normal user submits a skin, if I'm the first to rate it, and I give it a 1 it goes to like a 4, if I rate it a 10, it's going to be around an 8 or so. When a journyman submits and I'm the first to rate, if I give it a 1, it goes to 1, if I give him/her a 10, they get an instant 10. Thats the only thing I see worth changing.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #46 Sunday, February 20, 2005 4:59 AM
Reply #46 Sunday, February 20, 2005 4:59 AM
My personal opinion, stated many times over the last few years, is that rating should be made public, ideally linked to comments and downloads. That way someone would have to download a skin and comment to rate it.
There's nothing wrong with giving a low rating to something you don't like - just say why! Same for a high rating.
Drive-by raters will not be given any sympathy and will be dealt with accordingly.
Finally, like most people here, I'm getting sick of hearing about ratings. I just wish the moaning minnies would find something else to whinge about. There's hardly a week goes by without an outburst - enough already, shut-up and skin something.
pinchecl
Reply #47 Sunday, February 20, 2005 5:45 AM
Reply #47 Sunday, February 20, 2005 5:45 AM
So this is trhread number 1.274.658.564 or something like that about ratings. And nothing changes and I guess will never change. So IMHO the solution is to leave it all like it is and pay no attention to whatever rating is given. Comments ditto unless something constructive is left. Sure, it's nice to have comments like "great, nice" and so on , better then "crap" but it doesn't anything at all what makes me benefit.
Mackintosh
Reply #48 Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:39 AM
Just out of curiosity, would a "because I don't like it" satisfy you as a comment? There's nothing more idiotic than expecting someone to explain their personal taste. I have no qualms about leaving detailed negative comments, should it be required of me, but I have no desire to be exiled because I'm forced to explain why I abhor a skin and then be punished for it, because someone's feelings were hurt in the process.
Reply #48 Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:39 AM
| There's nothing wrong with giving a low rating to something you don't like - just say why! Same for a high rating. |
Just out of curiosity, would a "because I don't like it" satisfy you as a comment? There's nothing more idiotic than expecting someone to explain their personal taste. I have no qualms about leaving detailed negative comments, should it be required of me, but I have no desire to be exiled because I'm forced to explain why I abhor a skin and then be punished for it, because someone's feelings were hurt in the process.
Jafo
Reply #49 Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:37 AM
Reply #49 Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:37 AM
The ratings are intended to be a 'filter' to select generally agreed 'better' works for public viewing/download. The intent is that actual registered users can contribute to this 'filter' with their opinion of the 'appropriately tested' work by applying a rating. Currently, the higher up the 'social ladder' [via experience - input - dedication - promotion] the more weight is granted to your opinion/rating...which effectively counter-balances the 'novice' without much experence of the craft.
99% of the time the ratings look quite 'right'. Every now and then there is an anomaly...which sets bells ringing....and is dealt with....privately.
It's important to re-iterate that all the ratings are visible and time-lined. They are NOT anonymous...not to those vested with the responsibility of maintaining decorum.
Now and then...heads roll. It gets resolved.....
If I only had a dollar for each thread posted about ratings.....I'd buy an Island...not a little island....
Phoon
Reply #50 Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:57 AM
Reply #50 Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:57 AM
I understand the frequency of threads like this, and I didn't mean to poke a stick in the hornets nest again either.
Perhaps the frequency indicates that people are a tad disturbed by the system and it deserves to be thought out again by the powers that be.
I see quite a few skins with great comments and low ratings. That indicates a problem. period.
On the other side of the coin, the admins to a good job of policing the abuse if it is drawn to their attention. It just seems like the whistle needs blown more now. Here's one last thought then I walk away from the swarm I made..
Could be that people are rating using the old 1-10 system on the current 1-5 scale. That could explain the surge.
Perhaps the frequency indicates that people are a tad disturbed by the system and it deserves to be thought out again by the powers that be.
I see quite a few skins with great comments and low ratings. That indicates a problem. period.
On the other side of the coin, the admins to a good job of policing the abuse if it is drawn to their attention. It just seems like the whistle needs blown more now. Here's one last thought then I walk away from the swarm I made..
Could be that people are rating using the old 1-10 system on the current 1-5 scale. That could explain the surge.
WOM
Reply #51 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:04 AM
Reply #51 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:04 AM
Something to think about.
Citizen = 1
Apprentice = 2
Master Apprentice = 3
Journeyman = 4
Master= 5
Mod/Admin = 6
Those are the multipliers for the different ranks.
So when a mod rates your skin with 3 stars it will take a bunch of citizen rating a skin low to affect the overall rating.
So for each higher rake, it will take less ratings to affect the overall rating.
Think about that. So if a skin is rated 2-21/2 stars, then there must be a lot of people that think that way or a few experienced people that think so.
I Hope everyone understands how this works.
Now if a MOD rates you with 2 stars, it will take a bunch of people to raise that rating.
Citizen = 1
Apprentice = 2
Master Apprentice = 3
Journeyman = 4
Master= 5
Mod/Admin = 6
Those are the multipliers for the different ranks.
So when a mod rates your skin with 3 stars it will take a bunch of citizen rating a skin low to affect the overall rating.
So for each higher rake, it will take less ratings to affect the overall rating.
Think about that. So if a skin is rated 2-21/2 stars, then there must be a lot of people that think that way or a few experienced people that think so.
I Hope everyone understands how this works.
Now if a MOD rates you with 2 stars, it will take a bunch of people to raise that rating.
Mackintosh
Reply #52 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:46 AM
No, that indicates that while some people found the skin(s) to be excellent and were vocal about it, the silent majority found it to be otherwise. Just because a number of people rant and rave that a skin is awesome, does not necessarily make it so.
Reply #52 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:46 AM
| see quite a few skins with great comments and low ratings. That indicates a problem. period. |
No, that indicates that while some people found the skin(s) to be excellent and were vocal about it, the silent majority found it to be otherwise. Just because a number of people rant and rave that a skin is awesome, does not necessarily make it so.
WOM
Reply #53 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:53 AM
Reply #53 Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:53 AM
Also it doesn't mean the downloaded it. It just looked nice in the preview.
MadDeez
Reply #55 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:57 AM
no, it isn't!! it's cold and snowy
i want may, june, july, and august weather NOW
on a side note, 3 more hours
Reply #55 Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:57 AM
| Beautiful Sunday morning. isn't it? |
no, it isn't!! it's cold and snowy
i want may, june, july, and august weather NOWon a side note, 3 more hours
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #56 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:09 AM
Reply #56 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:09 AM
snowing here too. 3 more hours until what?
Essencay
Reply #57 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:12 AM
Reply #57 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:12 AM
Snow arriving here tomorrow....my guess is 3-hours until the Daytona 500 starts
crissy14
Reply #58 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:30 AM
Reply #58 Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:30 AM
I definitely agree that theres rating slamming going on. I support BOTH rules.
Hus
Reply #59 Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:23 PM
Reply #59 Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:23 PM
I dont get Nascar. You drive in a circle for 4 hours...how is that fun? I'd get dizzy by the 30th lap...
In2it
Reply #60 Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:33 PM
Reply #60 Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:33 PM
I have been observing the last two threads of ratings abuse with interest. JM Phoon summarises well...
Well, Powers that be, here is a tip: Have 2 seperate ratings systems, similar to the Oscars & People's Choice.
The Oscars: The Academy, the Peers, the So-called "Experts" vote (Those tend to beleive that they are above the rest and their vote is what really counts)
The Poeple's: The Masses, the ones who download, rent, buy.(they like, they use, they admire, they vote)
| Perhaps the frequency indicates that people are a tad disturbed by the system and it deserves to be thought out again by the powers that be |
Well, Powers that be, here is a tip: Have 2 seperate ratings systems, similar to the Oscars & People's Choice.
The Oscars: The Academy, the Peers, the So-called "Experts" vote (Those tend to beleive that they are above the rest and their vote is what really counts)
The Poeple's: The Masses, the ones who download, rent, buy.(they like, they use, they admire, they vote)
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Reply #41 Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:48 AM
Zero.