"WHEN IS IT RIGHT TO DIE?"
Defending or Protecting your Country or Defending or Protecting another Nation
Sunday, January 30, 2005 by wmsco | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
First of all I am not attacking anyone or anybody. And it is not intended to cause Grief. I was watching the news of a famialy who lost their son in Iraq who left his Wife and Newborn son behind (Who only got to see him for 2 weeks). His Parents were trying to find a Justifiable cause for the Loss of their Son and his Life. So Iraq could vote was Honorable, But you see in their Eyes it was not Justifiable.
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
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Jafo
Reply #2 Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:44 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:44 PM
Soldiers enlist to fight for/defend their country....and what its citizens, through their elected government stand for.
When a GI [or any other country's soldiers] die in service....it is 'for' their country, irrespective of the 'details' [where, when, why].
It's never a 'good' time to die....no time is ever 'good'....however it can be seen as 'just', 'noble', 'selfless', and 'right'.
Had a few more people understood this during Vietnam there would have been far less hurt bestowed upon the Vets.
wmsco
Reply #3 Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:56 PM
Reply #3 Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:56 PM
When it comes to protecting my country or possible threat to my country and protecting my Love ones and our way of life for my Loved ones I have NO problems at all. I would give up the most precious thing I have My Life and in a instant Without remorse or hesitation!! But for another country people I don't even know and don't know me I have my doubts. If I was already there and saw injustices yes I would do what I could do. But to ask me to donate my children for a good cause NO absolutely not! It Would be different if my sons and daughters believed or felt it was for a good cause. For my Self the formost question would be does it protect my country and love ones
Old_Crab
Reply #4 Monday, January 31, 2005 2:52 AM
Reply #4 Monday, January 31, 2005 2:52 AM
Afghanistan was a and still is a "right" war. Bin Laden and the government "Taliban" attacked the U.S. Iraq was not a "right" war and a .... personal vendetta carried out by the Bush Adm. without a clear or justified "excuse". However, if I had to re-enlist to fight again with a justifible cause I would. But as anyone should say .... I don't wanna die in an unjust war... . 
Cyberworld
Reply #6 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:12 AM
Reply #6 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:12 AM
Don't get me wrong on this but i think i have the right of an opinion.
To begin with i come from a small country,so i've never felt this superpower feeling.I mean i am proud about my country,but i know that its position and powers are limited.I can't be proud of my country in the way that it is the most powerful in the world,so i speak from another side of the planet here.
Well...the only thing needed to ask is: What is an enemy to one country? What does it take for one country to be considered hostile?
In my opinion an enemy is the one that threatens the country in a direct way,thus by attacking your country. In that case yes it is right to fight back,it is an honorable thing to fight the ones that come to claim YOUR land and by all means i find it heroic,just and right to die in battle.
BUT there is a limit to all this.An enemy is considered enemy as long as he tries in direct way to attack.An enemy IS NO enemy when he loses a war or when he fails in his attack.At that point the enemy becomes a possible threat,but not an immediate danger.Thus i find it the least to say unfair to go and fight an enemy outside the country's boundaries.This world is divided in nations and each nation has the right to manage its land,people and constitution in any way the people of that particular nation would like to.
No nation in this world has the right to administrate another nation's affairs.
Just imagine what would happen if the Department of Defence decided to declare war against all USA's possible threats.What would the outcome be?Cause in a way every country in this world can consider all other countries as possibles threats,mainly for economic reasons.I don't believe there are many people around this world who'd like to witness the break-out of another world war.
All in all i'd say that is not a fair way to sacrifice your life.It simply don't worth it.You die for no reason,but the faulty,illusionous reasons that are easily said to distract the crowds,like "You die for the good of humanity",or "You die for your children to live in a better world".Well i'd say a man's life is more worth alive than dead in a pointless war.That man you said died in Iraq,if he were alive could be a scientist working on the cure of deadly desises,or a teacher teaching kids,or anything else USEFUL,even a soldier ment to die when called to fight when the enemy is at the gates.
You fight your enemy when he is at the gates,you don't fight the enemy beyond the gates.
There is one thing called honor and another one called interest.When you die to protect your country it's considered to be an honor.When u die in a war that has nothing to do with protection of your country then you die for your country's interests.Although i can see the logic in this on a more general level,i fail to see the logic of it on a personal level...
Sorry if i'm stepping on sensitive nerves here,that is not what i intent to do.I'm just afraid not to be the next country in line to be under America's focus.I don't hate Americans,but i'm afraid that this imperialistic policy will lead this world to its end...
To begin with i come from a small country,so i've never felt this superpower feeling.I mean i am proud about my country,but i know that its position and powers are limited.I can't be proud of my country in the way that it is the most powerful in the world,so i speak from another side of the planet here.
Well...the only thing needed to ask is: What is an enemy to one country? What does it take for one country to be considered hostile?
In my opinion an enemy is the one that threatens the country in a direct way,thus by attacking your country. In that case yes it is right to fight back,it is an honorable thing to fight the ones that come to claim YOUR land and by all means i find it heroic,just and right to die in battle.
BUT there is a limit to all this.An enemy is considered enemy as long as he tries in direct way to attack.An enemy IS NO enemy when he loses a war or when he fails in his attack.At that point the enemy becomes a possible threat,but not an immediate danger.Thus i find it the least to say unfair to go and fight an enemy outside the country's boundaries.This world is divided in nations and each nation has the right to manage its land,people and constitution in any way the people of that particular nation would like to.
No nation in this world has the right to administrate another nation's affairs.
Just imagine what would happen if the Department of Defence decided to declare war against all USA's possible threats.What would the outcome be?Cause in a way every country in this world can consider all other countries as possibles threats,mainly for economic reasons.I don't believe there are many people around this world who'd like to witness the break-out of another world war.
All in all i'd say that is not a fair way to sacrifice your life.It simply don't worth it.You die for no reason,but the faulty,illusionous reasons that are easily said to distract the crowds,like "You die for the good of humanity",or "You die for your children to live in a better world".Well i'd say a man's life is more worth alive than dead in a pointless war.That man you said died in Iraq,if he were alive could be a scientist working on the cure of deadly desises,or a teacher teaching kids,or anything else USEFUL,even a soldier ment to die when called to fight when the enemy is at the gates.
You fight your enemy when he is at the gates,you don't fight the enemy beyond the gates.
There is one thing called honor and another one called interest.When you die to protect your country it's considered to be an honor.When u die in a war that has nothing to do with protection of your country then you die for your country's interests.Although i can see the logic in this on a more general level,i fail to see the logic of it on a personal level...
Sorry if i'm stepping on sensitive nerves here,that is not what i intent to do.I'm just afraid not to be the next country in line to be under America's focus.I don't hate Americans,but i'm afraid that this imperialistic policy will lead this world to its end...
Cyberworld
Reply #7 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:21 AM
There is a good time to die.In all legends,in all histories of the world are stories about people who died at a good time.The simplest thing to do is translate the word in Greek. Good in Greek is translated as Oraio,and in our days it has come to mean good,beautiful,handsome.But the original meaning of the word derives from the word ora,which means time,moment. So oraio is what it comes in its time.If you have an oraio death then it means you died at the best time you could be and it was the best time for you to die.If you are interested on the subject just read out the story about Kleovis and Viton,the two brothers that died a good death.
Reply #7 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:21 AM
| It's never a 'good' time to die....no time is ever 'good' |
There is a good time to die.In all legends,in all histories of the world are stories about people who died at a good time.The simplest thing to do is translate the word in Greek. Good in Greek is translated as Oraio,and in our days it has come to mean good,beautiful,handsome.But the original meaning of the word derives from the word ora,which means time,moment. So oraio is what it comes in its time.If you have an oraio death then it means you died at the best time you could be and it was the best time for you to die.If you are interested on the subject just read out the story about Kleovis and Viton,the two brothers that died a good death.
davecarver
Reply #8 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:08 AM
Reply #8 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:08 AM
I never thought I'd be commenting on this in a skins forum, but here goes.
First, we are ALL going to die. It's something you have to confront without fear and accept. Given that knowledge, will you die well or will you die poorly? Dying poorly would be suicide, drunk and choking in a pool of your own vomit or after a year in hospital hooked to machines. Dying well would be dying while trying to help another human being.
Now.. about America "Being the police of the world" Let me ask you one simple question. Imagine you are being chased down by a thug from a different tribe, religion or political party. They are about to kill you because you are different or do not agree with them.
While you are running for your life are you going to think "I sure hope nobody from another country tries to save me, they ought to mind their own business!"
The world turned its back on Rwanda in 1994 and did nothing. Almost a million people were killed in a month - with machetes. The United Nations fled in fear. People with GUNS ran away from people with big knives. The UN, French and Americans (I'm an American) are to blame for all that death.
When it comes to brown people we always turn away and say "it's not our job to police the world"
When it was genocide in Kosovo - we were there in a heartbeat!
We have the responsibility to help people because we have the ABILITY.
Always apply this test to ANY situation... ask yourself "If it was me, would I want help?"
If America fell in to a civil war (again) and I was about to be killed, I know what would happen. People all over the world would watch it on the TV news. They would say "not my problem" and change the channel to a comedy program.
First, we are ALL going to die. It's something you have to confront without fear and accept. Given that knowledge, will you die well or will you die poorly? Dying poorly would be suicide, drunk and choking in a pool of your own vomit or after a year in hospital hooked to machines. Dying well would be dying while trying to help another human being.
Now.. about America "Being the police of the world" Let me ask you one simple question. Imagine you are being chased down by a thug from a different tribe, religion or political party. They are about to kill you because you are different or do not agree with them.
While you are running for your life are you going to think "I sure hope nobody from another country tries to save me, they ought to mind their own business!"
The world turned its back on Rwanda in 1994 and did nothing. Almost a million people were killed in a month - with machetes. The United Nations fled in fear. People with GUNS ran away from people with big knives. The UN, French and Americans (I'm an American) are to blame for all that death.
When it comes to brown people we always turn away and say "it's not our job to police the world"
When it was genocide in Kosovo - we were there in a heartbeat!
We have the responsibility to help people because we have the ABILITY.
Always apply this test to ANY situation... ask yourself "If it was me, would I want help?"
If America fell in to a civil war (again) and I was about to be killed, I know what would happen. People all over the world would watch it on the TV news. They would say "not my problem" and change the channel to a comedy program.
eieio
Reply #9 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:11 AM
Reply #9 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:11 AM
Personally, I think it's up to the soldier. By joining the armed forces, he has made a decision to fight and possibly die in the service of his country.
To second guess his decision seems a bit disrespectful.
To second guess his decision seems a bit disrespectful.
wmsco
Reply #10 Monday, January 31, 2005 12:37 PM
Reply #10 Monday, January 31, 2005 12:37 PM
First of all I am not attacking anyone or anybody. And it is not intended to cause Grief. I was watching the news of a famialy who lost their son in Iraq who left his Wife and Newborn son behind (Who only got to see him for 2 weeks). His Parents were trying to find a Justifiable cause for the Loss of their Son and his Life. So Iraq could vote was Honorable, But you see in their Eyes it was not Justifiable.
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
Lantec
Reply #11 Monday, January 31, 2005 2:58 PM
Reply #11 Monday, January 31, 2005 2:58 PM
The parent's opinion is the same as yours or mine. I doesn't count. The soldier's opinion is final. I'm sure his parents let him know how they felt as his wife certainly did. HE made his decision and I for one will not second guess him. It's a shame the child will grow up without their real father. This I know personally. But that's life. It ain't always pretty and it ain't always just. It just is.
As far as the war being right or wrong. The majority was in favor of it at the beginning. People can wihine and say they were mislead. Hindsite is 20-20. When a dirt bag like Teddy Killer Kennedy gets up and calls anyone else a liar I stop listening. The reality is we are there. All the whining and political backbiting in the world will not change the facts. Now we need to stand firm behind those who have chosen to defend our way of life.
As far as the war being right or wrong. The majority was in favor of it at the beginning. People can wihine and say they were mislead. Hindsite is 20-20. When a dirt bag like Teddy Killer Kennedy gets up and calls anyone else a liar I stop listening. The reality is we are there. All the whining and political backbiting in the world will not change the facts. Now we need to stand firm behind those who have chosen to defend our way of life.
MateoMalimat
Reply #13 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:12 PM
Reply #13 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:12 PM
You people. You act like you have a say in what happens in a soldier's life. You need to get a life if you "think" that you are able to justify a man's decision. Get off your computer and join the Marine Corp. if you are so "smart" about life and death situations. This man probably did not have a choice since college tuition is sky rocketing these days.
Amateurs.
Amateurs.
Lantec
Reply #16 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:38 PM
Reply #16 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:38 PM
You seemed very broad in your recrimination. Sorry if I misunderstood. 
Jafo
Reply #17 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:42 PM
Reply #17 Monday, January 31, 2005 5:42 PM
Rash generalization and sweeping statement is always down to ignorance......[wink]....
paxx
Reply #18 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:02 PM
Reply #18 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:02 PM
Well, I tend to think like others have said. Military is a profession. If you enrole voluntarely, then you, your family and everybody who knows you must know the risk and accept it. Same goes with policemen, firefighters, and other dangerous professions. The problem only occurs when a person stupidly chooses to enrole in the military to get a free education (or other equivalent ridiculous reasons, such as an opportunity to "travel"). The military is not a Club Med nor is its primary role to provide free education to the poor.
If you ask ME, then I would answer that I would NEVER be willing to die for my country (then again, I'm really not patriotic but that's another issue). But nor would I be ready to perform open heart surgery on my son if he needed it. There are people who love what they do and are good at what they do.
Doreen
Reply #19 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:36 PM
Reply #19 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:36 PM
Hmm I wonder how many have seen or heard a recruiter go after it's prey? They do not show vids of human remains being blow apart nor grieving families but rather the "Be all you can be vids" w/ glamorized focus on we will pay for your education bla bla bla...
I don't even think the majority of the ppl that join actually realize until they are wearing the boots and bullets or missles are coming their way what they did. And I really doubt any of them at that particular moment are ready to die. (but who is ready to die? don't answer that on a bad day) hehe
I don't even think the majority of the ppl that join actually realize until they are wearing the boots and bullets or missles are coming their way what they did. And I really doubt any of them at that particular moment are ready to die. (but who is ready to die? don't answer that on a bad day) hehe
Doreen
Reply #20 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:38 PM
Reply #20 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:38 PM
If ppl could behave like humans instead of animals there would be no need for war or patriotic garbage and leaders etc etc.
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Reply #1 Sunday, January 30, 2005 11:38 PM
I think we are defending our nation by being in Iraq so that they do not get out of hand and attack us. But as it stands I do not agree with being there. We should be hunting down Osama - we should NOT be policing Iraqs streets at the cost of millions to the US taxpayer.