"WHEN IS IT RIGHT TO DIE?"
Defending or Protecting your Country or Defending or Protecting another Nation
Sunday, January 30, 2005 by wmsco | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
First of all I am not attacking anyone or anybody. And it is not intended to cause Grief. I was watching the news of a famialy who lost their son in Iraq who left his Wife and Newborn son behind (Who only got to see him for 2 weeks). His Parents were trying to find a Justifiable cause for the Loss of their Son and his Life. So Iraq could vote was Honorable, But you see in their Eyes it was not Justifiable.
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
So I'm asking What your Feelings are, When is it Right to die Defending or Protecting Your Nation or Defending or Protecting another Nation?
So this is a opportunity, for some to vent your feelings and others how you feel about the price you paid. No One is right or wrong it is just how you feel!!
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Doreen
Reply #22 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:42 PM
Reply #22 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:42 PM
Hey you grabbed that before I used that edit button to change that to say instead of "like animals"
I think ppl don't have respect for each other which causes this whole mess we have going on... but yeah your right I guess that is human nature
I think ppl don't have respect for each other which causes this whole mess we have going on... but yeah your right I guess that is human nature
Doreen
Reply #23 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:43 PM
Reply #23 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:43 PM
Boy that smiley sure don't look like my smile... hehe!
MateoMalimat
Reply #24 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:53 PM
Reply #24 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:53 PM
Hey Doreen,
Most people have to get a scholarship or grant to go to college. It's not cheap. That's when people go to military because education costs too much. And the military is great, by the way.
Most people have to get a scholarship or grant to go to college. It's not cheap. That's when people go to military because education costs too much. And the military is great, by the way.
tjesterb
Reply #25 Monday, January 31, 2005 7:21 PM
Reply #25 Monday, January 31, 2005 7:21 PM
There will always be war, or the stirrings of war somewhere in the world. That is not ideal, but it is reality. And that reality dictates that a nation be prepared to defend itself and wage war if necessary.
Men and women choose to enlist in military service of their own free will, and for the most part it is an honorable choice. An essential part of being a soldier is the discipline to follow orders, and a soldier takes pride in carrying out his/her duty.
Whether or not a soldier would have chosen for his country to engage a particular enemy becomes irrelevant, the discipline necessary to maintain a successful military means that every soldier, at every rank, must carry out their sworn duty, and as I said earlier, they usually take great pride in that.
Certainly military recruiters paint a glorious picture to young recruits, and of course they are going to highlight the benefits over the drawbacks, what prospective employer wouldn't? But how does that compare to the recruiting campaigns of the terrorists? They sell them on the idea that killing anyone who opposes their particular brand of religion ensures them an everlasting life of comfort and glory, surrounded by youg virgins. The families of suicide bombers are considered worthy of great honor, and are even given money, for raising their child to be "fine and honorable" suicide/murderer!
Whether or not you agree with a particular war, at least the volunteer soldier who signed up to protect and defend his/her country did so with the idea that it is a noble cause, that there is honor in putting your life on the line for your country and all that it stands for.
The extremist murderers (no I don't view them as "soldiers" or "insurgents" they are murderers in my book)have no desire to bring better living conditions or freedom to other peoples, most of them don't even have a country they can claim, just the desire to kill, and almost from birth they are fed a diet of hatred and the "logic" that it is somehow honorable to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you.
So, if there were no evil people, no one with a desire to kill everyone who didn't agree with them, no one with the desire to suppress freedom of speech, worship, and thought, there would be no need for young men and women to fight an die in wars. But until that time (which none of us are likely to ever see)people will enter into military service, and they will consider it an honor to put their lives on the line for the principles their country was founded on, even to the point of losing their life. I say we respect their decision, and be thankful that there are those who choose to stand in harms way for their country.
Men and women choose to enlist in military service of their own free will, and for the most part it is an honorable choice. An essential part of being a soldier is the discipline to follow orders, and a soldier takes pride in carrying out his/her duty.
Whether or not a soldier would have chosen for his country to engage a particular enemy becomes irrelevant, the discipline necessary to maintain a successful military means that every soldier, at every rank, must carry out their sworn duty, and as I said earlier, they usually take great pride in that.
Certainly military recruiters paint a glorious picture to young recruits, and of course they are going to highlight the benefits over the drawbacks, what prospective employer wouldn't? But how does that compare to the recruiting campaigns of the terrorists? They sell them on the idea that killing anyone who opposes their particular brand of religion ensures them an everlasting life of comfort and glory, surrounded by youg virgins. The families of suicide bombers are considered worthy of great honor, and are even given money, for raising their child to be "fine and honorable" suicide/murderer!
Whether or not you agree with a particular war, at least the volunteer soldier who signed up to protect and defend his/her country did so with the idea that it is a noble cause, that there is honor in putting your life on the line for your country and all that it stands for.
The extremist murderers (no I don't view them as "soldiers" or "insurgents" they are murderers in my book)have no desire to bring better living conditions or freedom to other peoples, most of them don't even have a country they can claim, just the desire to kill, and almost from birth they are fed a diet of hatred and the "logic" that it is somehow honorable to kill anyone who doesn't agree with you.
So, if there were no evil people, no one with a desire to kill everyone who didn't agree with them, no one with the desire to suppress freedom of speech, worship, and thought, there would be no need for young men and women to fight an die in wars. But until that time (which none of us are likely to ever see)people will enter into military service, and they will consider it an honor to put their lives on the line for the principles their country was founded on, even to the point of losing their life. I say we respect their decision, and be thankful that there are those who choose to stand in harms way for their country.
tjesterb
Reply #26 Monday, January 31, 2005 7:24 PM
Reply #26 Monday, January 31, 2005 7:24 PM
"....and that's all I've got to say about that." 
wmsco
Reply #27 Monday, January 31, 2005 8:36 PM
Reply #27 Monday, January 31, 2005 8:36 PM
First of all it is not about the Soldier And He or She is honorable
If he and others like him or her did not volunteered they would have started the Draft there goes honoring his decision.
In the begining of the interveiw the Parents were upset and then of course the news media started saying about the all the criminal things that were stopped and the Voting and she was proud that the Iraqe's came out in such a large no#. But in her eyes and his fathers eyes there was no Justification, they did not want to sound bad on TV, so they appeased the reporter. which leads to the content of this article it is not about the soldiers decision! It is about you who are at home and some of you have payed a high price with loss to your famialy. What is Justifiable? Don't stand behind placards such as Military or President or Laws but what are your Heart felt feelings? You will not be judged or Measured by what is Right or Wrong, It is just simply Put. What are your feelings?
If he and others like him or her did not volunteered they would have started the Draft there goes honoring his decision.
In the begining of the interveiw the Parents were upset and then of course the news media started saying about the all the criminal things that were stopped and the Voting and she was proud that the Iraqe's came out in such a large no#. But in her eyes and his fathers eyes there was no Justification, they did not want to sound bad on TV, so they appeased the reporter. which leads to the content of this article it is not about the soldiers decision! It is about you who are at home and some of you have payed a high price with loss to your famialy. What is Justifiable? Don't stand behind placards such as Military or President or Laws but what are your Heart felt feelings? You will not be judged or Measured by what is Right or Wrong, It is just simply Put. What are your feelings?
paxx
Reply #28 Monday, January 31, 2005 8:42 PM
Well, actually, that's what war is about... on both sides. I don't think anybody could kill anybody without that needed hate of the other side. You can't say "I value your opinion" then shoot. War is a mixture of fear and hate.
If you ask me, the only way to ever get rid of war for good is to get rid of patriotism. Most wars were fought for the glory of their country, on all sides. And that's why I said earlier I wouldn't die for my country. Mt country is just the place I happen to live at, not something I love. My family I love, and I would die to defend them.
Reply #28 Monday, January 31, 2005 8:42 PM
| So, if there were no evil people, no one with a desire to kill everyone who didn't agree with them... |
Well, actually, that's what war is about... on both sides. I don't think anybody could kill anybody without that needed hate of the other side. You can't say "I value your opinion" then shoot. War is a mixture of fear and hate.
If you ask me, the only way to ever get rid of war for good is to get rid of patriotism. Most wars were fought for the glory of their country, on all sides. And that's why I said earlier I wouldn't die for my country. Mt country is just the place I happen to live at, not something I love. My family I love, and I would die to defend them.
WonderB
Reply #29 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:01 PM
Reply #29 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:01 PM
Like Everyone Else I Have My Opinions. But To Those Who Say "Stop Whining And Stand Behind Your Leader" ....
I Wonder What The American Reaction Will Be When a Coalition Of Wealthy Arab Countries, Eastern European And Asian Countries All Band Together And Say "You Know I Think America Is Getting Too Big For It's Boots. I Don't Like The American Way Of Life, Or What It Stands For. And Although They're Way Of Life Has'nt Been Imposed On Me. Although Maybe They're Way Of Life Is Inexplicable To Me. We're Gonna Go In There And Wipe Them Out (Maybe We'll Even Create a Few Stories To Cover Ourselves Too"
When That Day Comes - I Wonder If Anyone Will Remember That Little Clause That Says "Every Nation Has The Right To Decide It's Own Destiny".
I Wonder What The American Reaction Will Be When a Coalition Of Wealthy Arab Countries, Eastern European And Asian Countries All Band Together And Say "You Know I Think America Is Getting Too Big For It's Boots. I Don't Like The American Way Of Life, Or What It Stands For. And Although They're Way Of Life Has'nt Been Imposed On Me. Although Maybe They're Way Of Life Is Inexplicable To Me. We're Gonna Go In There And Wipe Them Out (Maybe We'll Even Create a Few Stories To Cover Ourselves Too"
When That Day Comes - I Wonder If Anyone Will Remember That Little Clause That Says "Every Nation Has The Right To Decide It's Own Destiny".
wmsco
Reply #30 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:14 PM
Reply #30 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:14 PM
I'll start my wife says why are we fighting someone elses battles so what were the no#.1 power why do we have to be the worlds policeman we have problems here at home she says if you old men want to go fight then pack up and go but leave our children out of it they dont even know what life is or have experianced it she says they dont have a choice because if they refuse they get lock up what is that and of course why do we have to fight and I tried to explain the issues of each one of her questions or statments it did not matter the lost of her son is not worth it how can they put a price on my sons head. She said they cant a life is priceless that was her finial say. My self I do understand the issues that are at stake, but when it comes down to it I would feel alot better knowing he gave all in defence of this country and not another whether this is right or wrong that is what my heart says. My mine says different but that's what is in my heart. My wife she always speaks with her heart. So if you have something to say on how you feel then feel free you will not be judged 
tjesterb
Reply #31 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:48 PM
Reply #31 Monday, January 31, 2005 9:48 PM
wmsco, the fact is we do NOT have a draft, so I gave my opinion, as you asked.
During the "first" Gulf War, I did some work for the parents and widow of the Marine pilot who was the first U.S. casualty of that war. They were very hurt, of course, but they proudly flew the U.S. and Marine Corps flags at their homes in his memory. They honored the choice, and sacrifice of their son/husband. Is that wrong? Would they only be right if they were bitter and angry? But I suppose that wouldn't make a very interesting news story.
Paxx, getting rid of patriotism seems a little over simplified. Patriotism means different things to different people and groups. What else do you get rid of? Do we rid the world of all religious beliefs? Do we get rid of any cause that would inspire loyalty and devotion? And who goes first? What nation will decide to be first to do away with all military and armaments? I suspect that nation would have a short future. The Constitution of the U.S. states that one of the purposes of the federal government is to "...provide for the common defense." DO we throw out the constitition then?
As I stated earlier, we do not have an ideal situation. As long as there are those who would do harm, or suppress the freedom of others for their own ends, it becomes necessary for a nation to provide for its defense.
My grandfather fought in WWII and was one of the first Allied personnel into Auschwitz. He was, and is, proud of what he accomplished. And, I believe, rightly so.
I was raised to have respect for the men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. I may or may not agree with a particular conflict (I think that we could have used our resources better than to go into Iraq, but we're there now, so....) what I stated was my view. I don't reallistically see the need for nations and individuals to defend themselves to go away.
During the "first" Gulf War, I did some work for the parents and widow of the Marine pilot who was the first U.S. casualty of that war. They were very hurt, of course, but they proudly flew the U.S. and Marine Corps flags at their homes in his memory. They honored the choice, and sacrifice of their son/husband. Is that wrong? Would they only be right if they were bitter and angry? But I suppose that wouldn't make a very interesting news story.
Paxx, getting rid of patriotism seems a little over simplified. Patriotism means different things to different people and groups. What else do you get rid of? Do we rid the world of all religious beliefs? Do we get rid of any cause that would inspire loyalty and devotion? And who goes first? What nation will decide to be first to do away with all military and armaments? I suspect that nation would have a short future. The Constitution of the U.S. states that one of the purposes of the federal government is to "...provide for the common defense." DO we throw out the constitition then?
As I stated earlier, we do not have an ideal situation. As long as there are those who would do harm, or suppress the freedom of others for their own ends, it becomes necessary for a nation to provide for its defense.
My grandfather fought in WWII and was one of the first Allied personnel into Auschwitz. He was, and is, proud of what he accomplished. And, I believe, rightly so.
I was raised to have respect for the men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. I may or may not agree with a particular conflict (I think that we could have used our resources better than to go into Iraq, but we're there now, so....) what I stated was my view. I don't reallistically see the need for nations and individuals to defend themselves to go away.
wmsco
Reply #32 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:29 PM
Reply #32 Monday, January 31, 2005 10:29 PM
yes sir your quite right! and I oppose no one here I was ajusting the focus away from legal logistics to just plain feelings just like my Wife did. You and I both know that some things half to be. Just because of Human nature.this was just a chance for some to let it out whether it made sense or not. you can be forced to do things in this life that you know are right but it does not mean you feel the same way. I figured ther would be alot of ppl who would jump in and get a chance to air out there mind whether it was right or wrong not about the logistics or implications of it just let it out.
I know that Mother or Father would and I'm sure there would be mixed feelings as the heart and the mind tried to reason it out
I know that Mother or Father would and I'm sure there would be mixed feelings as the heart and the mind tried to reason it out
gooberbean28
Reply #33 Tuesday, February 1, 2005 10:39 PM
Reply #33 Tuesday, February 1, 2005 10:39 PM
I enlisted in the Armed Forces when I was young and I would have proudly fought and died for my country. A just war or non-just war,WAR is WAR soldiers fight because they are serving their country ,just like fireman, police or anyone else who puts their lives on the line. I Salute the fighting men and women of our country and am proud of them, and pray God will bring them all safely home when their work is done. No doubt the parents of that soldier hurt emensely and have doubts but they are probably still very proud of him that he gave his life for something he believed in ,fighting for his country!
paxx
Reply #34 Wednesday, February 2, 2005 12:27 AM
Reply #34 Wednesday, February 2, 2005 12:27 AM
tj: when I mean "patriotism" is that "pride" or whatever one would want to call it that one had for his country. When people start to feel first and foremost love and pride to be citizens of the the World before pride for some local territory, then war will end. I don't think boundaries should necessarely be abolished as they serve a purpose for administrative reasons.
Getting rid of Religion? Don't get me started, that's a whole different topic. LOL
Personally, I found that since the Internet has arrived, my patriotism has almost died. As I learn to know other people form othre countries, I find having pride in my own country a bit senseless, as "patriotic pride" requires some sort of "my country than yours" feeling. And I just can't feel that way anymore. There are great people from all over the world, and I'm happy to be part of this great community better known as "the world".
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Reply #21 Monday, January 31, 2005 6:39 PM
That's human nature though.