Censorship Vs free expression
Sunday, September 28, 2003 by Jafo | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
On a publicly accessible 'Family' website, what are YOUR thoughts regarding the line beyond which no-one should cross?
What is considered 'inappropriate' to you?
And why?
Needless to say, this is not the forum for boundary crossing but an open discussion on where lines really SHOULD be drawn.
I will be at pains to stress that at no time is there a 'double standard' being applied and to suggest such is insulting to the reputation/s and moral conduct of the moderators here.
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yrag
Reply #103 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:56 PM
Reply #103 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:56 PM
Knew I could get ya to laugh again...missed it.
Pass the 'tea'.......
Pass the 'tea'.......
Angel_Wings
Reply #104 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:57 PM
Angel_Wings nudges china to help pump yrag's tank.
Uhm...done in a most church-lady like manner of course. Ahem.
Reply #104 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:57 PM
Angel_Wings nudges china to help pump yrag's tank.
Uhm...done in a most church-lady like manner of course. Ahem.
eieio
Reply #105 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:03 PM
Reply #105 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:03 PM
I think 'family site' is too loose a term to pin down to a strict set of rules that define it. I'm assuming everyone here has a family and on occasion, in the course of life in a family, rude, crude, and maybe even lewd words slip out in front of the children. It probably happens to most at one time or another. When it does, some adult will make a statement like "sshh, not in front of the children" or something to that effect. Sometimes a little explanation may be in order for the curious child, but then all goes back to a normal family-like atmosphere. No big harm done.
Well sometimes there is going to be a little off color talk here. I think if the admins do as Jafo suggested earlier and watch for things getting out of control, it's no real harm done. Some people are going to be offended by every little thing, but you can't just clamp down on every little thing or conversation stops being spontaneous and interesting.
And, as was alluded to earlier, profanity is not the only thing adults hesitate to say to their children. Negative statements sometimes cause more problems than profanity. I have noticed a marked improvement lately in the admins watching for that sort of thing also. You know, the "You're an idiot, go away, we don't want you here" name calling type of stuff. I think the admins can make the troublemakers go away quite easily without people piling on and fanning the flames.
Well sometimes there is going to be a little off color talk here. I think if the admins do as Jafo suggested earlier and watch for things getting out of control, it's no real harm done. Some people are going to be offended by every little thing, but you can't just clamp down on every little thing or conversation stops being spontaneous and interesting.
And, as was alluded to earlier, profanity is not the only thing adults hesitate to say to their children. Negative statements sometimes cause more problems than profanity. I have noticed a marked improvement lately in the admins watching for that sort of thing also. You know, the "You're an idiot, go away, we don't want you here" name calling type of stuff. I think the admins can make the troublemakers go away quite easily without people piling on and fanning the flames.
Zodiaq~
Reply #106 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:03 PM
Reply #106 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:03 PM
Geez...China is always spouting off witty one-liners
The only reason the 'Strap on' one wasn't offensive was because Kona was the butt of the joke 
The only reason the 'Strap on' one wasn't offensive was because Kona was the butt of the joke
kona0197
Reply #107 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:06 PM
Reply #107 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:06 PM
And I am still laughing about it1
For some food for thought, I just watched a simpsons episode with more bad words and sexual crap than any thread i have ever read here...
And I just got done tearing apart my laptop to install a new fan... that mad me mad...
For some food for thought, I just watched a simpsons episode with more bad words and sexual crap than any thread i have ever read here...
And I just got done tearing apart my laptop to install a new fan... that mad me mad...
Angel_Wings
Reply #108 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:11 PM
Reply #108 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:11 PM
Pic...wow...you really hit something on the head there with me...
I know how sensitive and easily wounded I was as a teen [heck, who am I kiddin? I'm STILL that bad hehe] but...really...I just HATE flaming someone without getting the full story ya know? I don't think I've ever hopped on a flame-wagon much but I know it's really NOT a cool thing to do. "Gang-mentality" solves little... It only takes TWO to start a flame...and I have begun to view folks who flame as real A-holes! NO sir, I DON'T like 'em!
Have some class and respect other's feelings...and if someone is a moron let the ADMINS deal... WE [god I swear this buggers me] but WE are NOT the damend LAW or ADMINS. GOT IT?
UGH
I know how sensitive and easily wounded I was as a teen [heck, who am I kiddin? I'm STILL that bad hehe] but...really...I just HATE flaming someone without getting the full story ya know? I don't think I've ever hopped on a flame-wagon much but I know it's really NOT a cool thing to do. "Gang-mentality" solves little... It only takes TWO to start a flame...and I have begun to view folks who flame as real A-holes! NO sir, I DON'T like 'em!
Have some class and respect other's feelings...and if someone is a moron let the ADMINS deal... WE [god I swear this buggers me] but WE are NOT the damend LAW or ADMINS. GOT IT?
UGH
Angel_Wings
Reply #109 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:19 PM
Reply #109 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:19 PM
After being flamed once...or TRAMPLED on maybe be a better word...I feel pretty RAW around here...and I felt pretty betrayed and lost.
But that was then...
THIS
IS
NOW...
Even though I was hurt I feel I am stronger for it...
When it comes to censorship...I find it mandatory only because I really don't want to be called something ugly any more than the next person. When I heard KarmaGirl was getting all kinds of hell...that infuriated me and I was saddened that the posts were seen by as many people when those kind of things should be nipped instantly. Jafo is usually on top of things but he ain't god and I just felt bad for KG that she got abused here for a while with nobody to swipe the creep away fast enough.
[Message Edited]
But that was then...
THIS
IS
NOW...
Even though I was hurt I feel I am stronger for it...
When it comes to censorship...I find it mandatory only because I really don't want to be called something ugly any more than the next person. When I heard KarmaGirl was getting all kinds of hell...that infuriated me and I was saddened that the posts were seen by as many people when those kind of things should be nipped instantly. Jafo is usually on top of things but he ain't god and I just felt bad for KG that she got abused here for a while with nobody to swipe the creep away fast enough.
[Message Edited]
horiz0n
Reply #110 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:20 PM
Reply #110 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:20 PM
hey while everyone is on the subject, how bout deleting the comments on these two wall
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=1113
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=702
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=1113
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=702
Doreen
Reply #112 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 PM
Reply #112 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 PM
true but again if they sweep too fast the boards get boring...
alot of what makes the community get closer Angela "is" the fights and flames sometimes, so I really think moderating should be kept light
(I hate controlled envirionments)
alot of what makes the community get closer Angela "is" the fights and flames sometimes, so I really think moderating should be kept light
(I hate controlled envirionments)
Doreen
Reply #113 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM
Reply #113 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM
okay well maybe I spoke too soon? (that first link up there is pure nasty) but I'm sure Jafo or one of the other admins will sweep up that mess? yuk!
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Doreen
Reply #114 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:31 PM
Reply #114 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:31 PM
yikes! and yeah well the second one looks pretty nasty too... hehe
"Calling Jafo the macro clean up on isle 3" hehe
why do ppl feel the urge to leave comments such as that on ppls work? *sigh*
"Calling Jafo the macro clean up on isle 3" hehe
why do ppl feel the urge to leave comments such as that on ppls work? *sigh*
yrag
Reply #115 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:33 PM
Reply #115 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:33 PM
horiz0n- send the links to Jafo...the only thing harder to believe that there are 'people' like that, is that the author stared at it for 6 months... >
Jafo
Reply #116 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:38 PM
Reply #116 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:38 PM
Sigh.....two new Exiles and a nice new Visitor [cannot post comment].
Thanks, horiz0n...for pointing them out....
They are EXACTLY why supervision is necessary....
Jafo
Reply #117 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:41 PM
Reply #117 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:41 PM
Unfortunately....with a site as big as ours it's impossible to be everywhere all the time....so some of this rubbish 'gets through'......and it's only through others noticing that the "Cleanup on Aisle 3" can be brought to bear...
yrag
Reply #118 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:49 PM
Reply #118 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:49 PM
Yeah...I think for some reason upload newbies think they have to put up with that...maybe they think it's just a rite of passage. There must be some way to convey to all concerned that admin. can't be everywhere and that this behavior is unacceptable and no one has to put up with it.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Jafo
Reply #119 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM
Reply #119 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM
yrag.....yes, you're right....it appears to be the case that many members are unaware that they do not need to endure this sort of abuse.....we can post various threads and/or news items relating to this, but again it's possible they will STILL remain unaware....
IPlural
Reply #120 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM
Reply #120 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM
and this is why WinCustomize *is* a Family based site...
Pictoratus, you expressed what I attempted to say more than once throughout this thread and could not. That is exactly what I meant when mentioning thinking outside the box...
You know, Administration of this site has got to be a lot like dealing with your children in many respects at times.
You have a bond with the people, though not as deep as *your* children, say your childs friend.
So consider the site as the admins child and us as the childs friend. You have three ket things that you are faced with when in such a situation. The safety first and foremost of *your* child and it's well being along with the safety and well being of the friend. But when the friend steps too far over the line where they totally go against waht you find acceptable for your child, the friend has to go... you might have given then a number of chances, or they might have gone so far the first time around that even a second chance is beyond considering....
Actually there are a number of relationship models that would fit the Administration situation, and in all of them there is always the option of asking for the input and help of the one(s) in question for two purposes specifically and possibly other unspoken reasons.
1, the attempt for the one(s) riding the edge to seek out solutions to a given issue so they are a part of it and might find it more acceptable.
2, letting them know there is an issue to begin with even if you do not direct it at them.
in this situation I would add more...
3, an honest attempt to bring a number of issues into focus for everyone without directing it at anyone specifically because everyone at some point in time has or will add to the issue even if not intentionally.
3, to let everyone know that it is in fact a family site, after all, this is a perfect model for an extended family and the most functional families discuss things and do not let them hit a boiling point which weakens the structual frame work that holds it together....
the last is what I think finally killed RazorArt...
it just all fell apart in the end and was to much to deal with on an emotional level as well as as being to time consuming putting out flash fires instead of having fun...
anyway....
blah blah blah... nough from the resident nut case
Pictoratus, you expressed what I attempted to say more than once throughout this thread and could not. That is exactly what I meant when mentioning thinking outside the box...
You know, Administration of this site has got to be a lot like dealing with your children in many respects at times.
You have a bond with the people, though not as deep as *your* children, say your childs friend.
So consider the site as the admins child and us as the childs friend. You have three ket things that you are faced with when in such a situation. The safety first and foremost of *your* child and it's well being along with the safety and well being of the friend. But when the friend steps too far over the line where they totally go against waht you find acceptable for your child, the friend has to go... you might have given then a number of chances, or they might have gone so far the first time around that even a second chance is beyond considering....
Actually there are a number of relationship models that would fit the Administration situation, and in all of them there is always the option of asking for the input and help of the one(s) in question for two purposes specifically and possibly other unspoken reasons.
1, the attempt for the one(s) riding the edge to seek out solutions to a given issue so they are a part of it and might find it more acceptable.
2, letting them know there is an issue to begin with even if you do not direct it at them.
in this situation I would add more...
3, an honest attempt to bring a number of issues into focus for everyone without directing it at anyone specifically because everyone at some point in time has or will add to the issue even if not intentionally.
3, to let everyone know that it is in fact a family site, after all, this is a perfect model for an extended family and the most functional families discuss things and do not let them hit a boiling point which weakens the structual frame work that holds it together....
the last is what I think finally killed RazorArt...
it just all fell apart in the end and was to much to deal with on an emotional level as well as as being to time consuming putting out flash fires instead of having fun...
anyway....
blah blah blah... nough from the resident nut case
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Reply #101 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:53 PM