Censorship Vs free expression
Sunday, September 28, 2003 by Jafo | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
On a publicly accessible 'Family' website, what are YOUR thoughts regarding the line beyond which no-one should cross?
What is considered 'inappropriate' to you?
And why?
Needless to say, this is not the forum for boundary crossing but an open discussion on where lines really SHOULD be drawn.
I will be at pains to stress that at no time is there a 'double standard' being applied and to suggest such is insulting to the reputation/s and moral conduct of the moderators here.
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paxx
Reply #43 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:02 AM
Reply #43 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:02 AM
OK, trying to be objective here.
I do not see anything in China's post that should be censored. Someone please enlighten me. Am I missing something? Is it the word penis? It's the proper name of a body part.
I too have children, both boys, 2 and 4 years old. And they both know that what they use to go pipi is called a penis. Not a peepee, not a wazoo, not a birdie. A penis. They both have two arms, two legs, two eyes, one nose, one mouth, one penis and two testicles.
The word penis is not profanity.
Doreen
Reply #44 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:13 AM
Reply #44 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:13 AM
China you trouble maker! hehe 
maybe the word "strap on" is bad??? hehe!
maybe the word "strap on" is bad??? hehe!
Leo the Lion
Reply #45 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:18 AM
Reply #45 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:18 AM
Just read the thread which started all this commotion.
paxx........you are spot on........nuff said.
BTW......it took me several minutes to get myself together after reading the other thread. I don't think i have laughed so much for a long time.
paxx........you are spot on........nuff said.
BTW......it took me several minutes to get myself together after reading the other thread. I don't think i have laughed so much for a long time.
Chef Garry
Reply #46 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:43 AM
WM has it in one. It's all about respect for each other after all. Even disagreements can be conducted in a respectful manner.
Reply #46 Monday, September 29, 2003 7:43 AM
| Treat others as you EXPECT to be treated, not as you are treated.I know it's a slight deviation from the "Golden Rule", but times have changed since it was written |
WM has it in one. It's all about respect for each other after all. Even disagreements can be conducted in a respectful manner.
Lady_Akasha
Reply #47 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:35 AM
Reply #47 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:35 AM
The thing is the whole whats inapropriate or not can take on SO many paths on this particular subject. Simply because yes I agree that the language should without question be watched, and I'm not to big on swearing myself. I think the use of prophane language these days has become almost a second and for some a first language. I personally find it tacky, however on a site that prefers to project itself as a family site then it really shouldn't have a place in it. While I am a HUGE supporter of free expression, and yes I understand what freedom of speech does mean, say it anyway you want it, I still think free expression can be done with tact,manners, and grace.
Know where you are what is acceptable! Thats your basic manners.
Though I don't like to swear for the most part, the other day on DA a friend submitted a design and the first thing I thought was HOLY COW! (but the word wasn't cow
) It was just that good, and I commented in that way, but I knew my element...its DA for cryin' outloud. 
Here I wouldn't have done that. Its about common sense.
HOWEVER, if you really think about it prophanity and what is acceptable is unfortunately based on perception isn't it? I mean if you really think about it. What I percieve as prophanity you may not.
I've been in atmospheres where the parent is swearing all over the house, and the kid replies with a curse word of their own. Now I personally, call me a snob I don't care, find that disgusting, but they obviously don't. But if for them there is OBVIOUSLY nothing wrong with it, if they behave that way daily, you can bet that person isn't going feel swearing elsewhere is wrong.
Lastly does labeling something as inapropriate conduct for a 'family' site only revolve around the use of prophane words? I'm sorry but I dont' think so. I find other conducts on these boards HIGHLY inapropriate that contains no foul language. I have before expressed that I don't care for the manner in which people are spoken to on these boards, with at times a condescending, arrogant sort of manner, and I find that very unappealing. (though it seems to have gotten a bit better)But, I find that just as inapropriate as the use of foul language. And had I a teenage kid I would NEVER allow my kid on this board, period.
While I think its so wonderful that WC is trying to create such an atmosphere, its still the parents responsibility, and there is way too much emphasis these days on the responsiblity of someone else doing the parenting for them. Kids have NO business being on the net unsupervised PERIOD! Have your pc's in the family room where they are always out in the open, turn your heads for crying outloud and look at what their doing, and yank'em off where they shouldn't be.
As for the 'orignal' thread: Sorry China, but...yes it was EXTREMELY inapropriate for something that is a 'family' site. Not because of the word penis, but the strap-on comment.I would not have wanted my kid to read that from several different aspects of it, not just one.
And those of you that say "oh you think your kids don't hear worse at school". Ummm I don't know what all you were talking about when you were teens, but indeed there was swearing abounds...but me and my friends didn't walk around talkin' about sex toys. Sex yes, every swear word under the sun, partying yes...but the above no. And no I wasn't by far a goody goody back then.
Know where you are what is acceptable! Thats your basic manners.
Though I don't like to swear for the most part, the other day on DA a friend submitted a design and the first thing I thought was HOLY COW! (but the word wasn't cow
) It was just that good, and I commented in that way, but I knew my element...its DA for cryin' outloud. 
Here I wouldn't have done that. Its about common sense.
HOWEVER, if you really think about it prophanity and what is acceptable is unfortunately based on perception isn't it? I mean if you really think about it. What I percieve as prophanity you may not.
I've been in atmospheres where the parent is swearing all over the house, and the kid replies with a curse word of their own. Now I personally, call me a snob I don't care, find that disgusting, but they obviously don't. But if for them there is OBVIOUSLY nothing wrong with it, if they behave that way daily, you can bet that person isn't going feel swearing elsewhere is wrong.
Lastly does labeling something as inapropriate conduct for a 'family' site only revolve around the use of prophane words? I'm sorry but I dont' think so. I find other conducts on these boards HIGHLY inapropriate that contains no foul language. I have before expressed that I don't care for the manner in which people are spoken to on these boards, with at times a condescending, arrogant sort of manner, and I find that very unappealing. (though it seems to have gotten a bit better)But, I find that just as inapropriate as the use of foul language. And had I a teenage kid I would NEVER allow my kid on this board, period.
While I think its so wonderful that WC is trying to create such an atmosphere, its still the parents responsibility, and there is way too much emphasis these days on the responsiblity of someone else doing the parenting for them. Kids have NO business being on the net unsupervised PERIOD! Have your pc's in the family room where they are always out in the open, turn your heads for crying outloud and look at what their doing, and yank'em off where they shouldn't be.
As for the 'orignal' thread: Sorry China, but...yes it was EXTREMELY inapropriate for something that is a 'family' site. Not because of the word penis, but the strap-on comment.I would not have wanted my kid to read that from several different aspects of it, not just one.
And those of you that say "oh you think your kids don't hear worse at school". Ummm I don't know what all you were talking about when you were teens, but indeed there was swearing abounds...but me and my friends didn't walk around talkin' about sex toys. Sex yes, every swear word under the sun, partying yes...but the above no. And no I wasn't by far a goody goody back then.
paxx
Reply #48 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:54 AM
Reply #48 Monday, September 29, 2003 8:54 AM
Hum. OK, so the problem is strap-on, not penis. OK, I get it.
Not sure I find it offensive though.
In that case, would the word "condom" be a dirty word as well?
Not sure I find it offensive though.
In that case, would the word "condom" be a dirty word as well?
Lady_Akasha
Reply #49 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:05 AM
Reply #49 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:05 AM
Its not a matter of 'dirty' word or not. Its a matter of appropriate or not. Again its not a black and white thing.
First I didn't say I found it 'offensive' I said "HIGHLY inapropriate" for a place that chooses to promote as a 'family' site.
Its also a case of, if its not ok a for a newbie to say it, and it would NOT be taken as lightly had it been a newbie, then it shouldn't be acceptable and funny just because it was a WC ole timer.
If the mods who I know work their butts off to make this a cool place, don't want people feeling there is a double standard, which in the past others have felt, then its situations like this that need to example that. Had a newer person said that to Kona things could have easily gone awry.
As for the word condom...sadly in this day, we MUST teach teens of those things.
First I didn't say I found it 'offensive' I said "HIGHLY inapropriate" for a place that chooses to promote as a 'family' site.
Its also a case of, if its not ok a for a newbie to say it, and it would NOT be taken as lightly had it been a newbie, then it shouldn't be acceptable and funny just because it was a WC ole timer.
If the mods who I know work their butts off to make this a cool place, don't want people feeling there is a double standard, which in the past others have felt, then its situations like this that need to example that. Had a newer person said that to Kona things could have easily gone awry.
As for the word condom...sadly in this day, we MUST teach teens of those things.
Doreen
Reply #50 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:10 AM
Reply #50 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:10 AM
I think most of us moms that come out to play on the msg boards would prefer not to have the mom guard up so much? I seen nothing wrong w/ what China said here on this msg board at all it's the place to enjoy skinning and being yourself and having fun, NOT being a mom...
Doreen
Reply #51 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:21 AM
Reply #51 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:21 AM
and about the double standard, I think when a newbie comes and blurts crazy words all over most don't know the motive behind the words that may "seem" offensive (but not even meant to be) but when a person that has been here at WC for a while they pretty much know their personilty/charactor already and feel where they are coming from w/ their words so that is why they sometimes get the break, ppl get misread all the time by words...
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Lady_Akasha
Reply #52 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:21 AM
Reply #52 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:21 AM
Doreen, you're right... it is a place to have fun. I'm replying to the thread in its main topic, if it is a 'family place' where the kids and parents can hang out, having fun means leaving adult fun out. Thats all.
Doreen
Reply #53 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 AM
Reply #53 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 AM
well it's such a hard call to make on what to moderate and what not to cuz ppl communicate so differently and when you throw kids into that factor it's complicated I guess.
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe
Doreen
Reply #54 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 AM
Reply #54 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:27 AM
well it's such a hard call to make on what to moderate and what not to cuz ppl communicate so differently and when you throw kids into that factor it's complicated I guess.
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe
Some kids are so street wise they offend adults! hehe
Lady_Akasha
Reply #56 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:34 AM
Reply #56 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:34 AM
thats very true, your right. It does get complicated when you throw kids into the mix. But thats the thing, with it being stressed that its a family place, then mom guard as you put it doesn't necessarily come off here.
Doreen
Reply #57 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:40 AM
Reply #57 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:40 AM
well we could ask for ID's on certain threads? hehe
Doreen gets busy and stops messing up Jafo's thread before he spanks me...
Doreen gets busy and stops messing up Jafo's thread before he spanks me...
paxx
Reply #58 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:41 AM
Reply #58 Monday, September 29, 2003 9:41 AM
OK. Lets define "kids" please. Are we talking about children (12 and under) or about teenagers?
I don't think many children come here, and as far as teens go, well, I don't know about girls, but I can tell you from memory that sex is ALL that teenage boys talk about.
I don't think many children come here, and as far as teens go, well, I don't know about girls, but I can tell you from memory that sex is ALL that teenage boys talk about.
Stockholm Syndrome
Reply #59 Monday, September 29, 2003 10:48 AM
Hear, hear.
People, please stop using the "this is a family site" excuse to try to wipe out everything that you don't think is "appropriate".
As I've already said, I try to speak politely and respectfully on here to ALL members regardless of age, but this isn't a daycare.
[Message Edited]
Reply #59 Monday, September 29, 2003 10:48 AM
| I think most of us moms that come out to play on the msg boards would prefer not to have the mom guard up so much? I seen nothing wrong w/ what China said here on this msg board at all it's the place to enjoy skinning and being yourself and having fun, NOT being a mom... |
Hear, hear.
People, please stop using the "this is a family site" excuse to try to wipe out everything that you don't think is "appropriate".
As I've already said, I try to speak politely and respectfully on here to ALL members regardless of age, but this isn't a daycare.
[Message Edited]
Leo the Lion
Reply #60 Monday, September 29, 2003 10:50 AM
Reply #60 Monday, September 29, 2003 10:50 AM
Whoa paxx......sex is all that teenage boys talk about ????????
When i was a teenager there was motorbikes, girls, sex, motorbikes, sex, girls..........Nah, you're right sex is all we talked abot.
When i was a teenager there was motorbikes, girls, sex, motorbikes, sex, girls..........Nah, you're right sex is all we talked abot.
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Reply #41 Monday, September 29, 2003 6:22 AM
I still think it's harmless & good for a giggle
[Message Edited]