Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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bakerstreet
Reply #683 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:35 AM
Reply #683 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:35 AM
When I worked in an off-campus book store in Tennessee, I knew a guy who claimed to be a skeptic. Upon rejecting religion, he began to notice its pervasiveness in our culture. As a history buff he was annoyed with the constant presence of 'the church'. He started calling himself a 'revisionist historian', trying to cull out the influence of religion in everything. Everything was tainted with the 'religious point-of-view'.
He took great pains to educate everyone he knew about how the church was really filled with pagan symbols, every steeple was a phallus. He whined endlessly about religious fraternal orders, about how the bumkins in town didn't like him because of his beliefs, about how his business was failing because people didn't like to be educated about their superstitions.
By the time I moved he was very interested in rooting out the shadowy religious organizations that had it in for him, and he had a lot to say about 'The Jews'.
My point? Who said I had to have one?
He took great pains to educate everyone he knew about how the church was really filled with pagan symbols, every steeple was a phallus. He whined endlessly about religious fraternal orders, about how the bumkins in town didn't like him because of his beliefs, about how his business was failing because people didn't like to be educated about their superstitions.
By the time I moved he was very interested in rooting out the shadowy religious organizations that had it in for him, and he had a lot to say about 'The Jews'.
My point? Who said I had to have one?
paxx
Reply #684 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:58 AM
Reply #684 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:58 AM
BakerStreet, I agree that most believers I know are like you and Aleatoric, and I have nothing against them; I actually have enormous respect for them because they can think by themselves. But there are indeed a few fundamentalists here; just a couple though, and most of my posts and also motion's probably, is targeted towards them.
motion: anger.
motion: anger.
bakerstreet
Reply #685 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:31 AM
Reply #685 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:31 AM
Thanks again Paxx.
Motion's last post isn't really valid with regards to the fundamentalists either, though, technically. They perhaps aren't as schooled in Evolution as they should be, but Motion wouldn't know an Australopithecine jawbone if it was firmly lodged in his trachea, either.
No one here formed their opinions in the lab, so everyone here got their information from a book, or worse, from some institutionally-fettered guy reading the book to them. I'm not debating on which book has more potential validity, I'm pointing out that words on a page do not truths make, at least truths with the kind of reliability it takes to discount another human being as a 'bubba'.
All I see between Kona and Motion is one guy who formed his beliefs based upon a book laughing at another guy that did the same, who in turns laughs back. Neither of them have a shred of evidence that wasn't passed from hand to hand, or even generation to generation, picking up bias and bitterness toward the opposition all along the way.
I banged that drum earlier in the thread, and it is just as valid now.
Motion's last post isn't really valid with regards to the fundamentalists either, though, technically. They perhaps aren't as schooled in Evolution as they should be, but Motion wouldn't know an Australopithecine jawbone if it was firmly lodged in his trachea, either.
No one here formed their opinions in the lab, so everyone here got their information from a book, or worse, from some institutionally-fettered guy reading the book to them. I'm not debating on which book has more potential validity, I'm pointing out that words on a page do not truths make, at least truths with the kind of reliability it takes to discount another human being as a 'bubba'.
All I see between Kona and Motion is one guy who formed his beliefs based upon a book laughing at another guy that did the same, who in turns laughs back. Neither of them have a shred of evidence that wasn't passed from hand to hand, or even generation to generation, picking up bias and bitterness toward the opposition all along the way.
I banged that drum earlier in the thread, and it is just as valid now.
Jafo
Reply #686 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:01 AM
Reply #686 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:01 AM
For me, reading a book, or for that matter, THE Book....did NOT form my basis for positional belief. Life experience is a far more noble source than third party mumbo-jumbo, whether scientific, OR theological.
Belief isn't about evidence....neither Darwin, nor the Bible will alter 'belief', only its perception....
Doreen
Reply #689 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:38 AM
Reply #689 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:38 AM
God is purely "Spiritual" ppl want things they can "touch, feel, read & see" but having a relationship w/ God will never be like that...
so all the Books, Churches, so called Religions and Religious teachers are "formed by ppl" to "assist" the ppl that need tuts and stuff to help them understand and have "faith in God" some tutorials are probably no help at all...
if you put your faith in the tutorials/books & teachers/pastors or whatever you wish to call all those things, instead of just God you'll really get lost (that's why I don't put my trust & faith in any of that stuff)
so all the Books, Churches, so called Religions and Religious teachers are "formed by ppl" to "assist" the ppl that need tuts and stuff to help them understand and have "faith in God" some tutorials are probably no help at all...
if you put your faith in the tutorials/books & teachers/pastors or whatever you wish to call all those things, instead of just God you'll really get lost (that's why I don't put my trust & faith in any of that stuff)
EventHorizon
Reply #690 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:19 PM
Its 'Anger' motion.
Reply #690 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:19 PM
| There's greed, lust, sloth, envy, gluttony, pride... and I can never remember the last one. |
Its 'Anger' motion.
bakerstreet
Reply #694 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:23 PM
Reply #694 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:23 PM
Actually, the way I learned it was : PEWLAGS
Pride Envy Wrath Lust Avarice Gluttony Sloth
Hiya Jafo
Pride Envy Wrath Lust Avarice Gluttony Sloth
Hiya Jafo
IPlural
Reply #695 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:04 PM
Reply #695 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:04 PM
*PEWLAGS*
sounds like someone farted in the church at the morning service
j/kidding
sounds like someone farted in the church at the morning service
j/kidding
paxx
Reply #696 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:15 PM
Reply #696 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:15 PM
or PEGGALS 
(Pride, Envy, Greed, Glutony, Anger, Lust, Sloth)
(Pride, Envy, Greed, Glutony, Anger, Lust, Sloth)
UBoB
Reply #697 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:23 PM
Reply #697 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:23 PM
Why is it when I say anything negative about a group, in this case Creationist, Bakerstreet, instead of attacking my beliefs, or the group of people I belong to that also believes as I do, he is instead inclined to attack me personally. Talk about being bereft of any benefit.
moshi
Reply #698 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:39 PM
Reply #698 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:39 PM
i don´t know. maybe because he just enjoys it. to me this thread is pure entertainment, but seriously: some of you need to get laid. (not including you motion).
EventHorizon
Reply #699 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:54 PM
Reply #699 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:54 PM
And how about your post motion, what purpose does it serve?
bakerstreet
Reply #700 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:23 PM
Reply #700 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:23 PM
Motion: Why did I single you out? Considering I care about some people that consider themselves 'atheist', equating your post with the group as a whole would be painfully unfair to them. I could have said "all those atheists are self-deluded dimwits who need to pretend anyone of any importance agrees with them, even when the majority of them don't.", but then I would be making an asinine statement about a diverse group of people, many of which may not apply to my attack.
The quote you used classified people as stupid, poor, and conceited because of their religious beliefs. You don't see how utterly offensive that is? It ignores the fact that a vast majority of humans on this earth are creationists of one flavor or another, and most noteworthy figures in the last 10,000 years have believed in a creator or reasonable facsimile thereof. Nevertheless, you discount the average creationist as a 'bubba'. Where did Occam's Razor go?
I really don't care if you feel singled out by my post. If you lower the discussion to that level you should be. I thought it was thoughtless, mean spirited, and to be honest, far below you.
The quote you used classified people as stupid, poor, and conceited because of their religious beliefs. You don't see how utterly offensive that is? It ignores the fact that a vast majority of humans on this earth are creationists of one flavor or another, and most noteworthy figures in the last 10,000 years have believed in a creator or reasonable facsimile thereof. Nevertheless, you discount the average creationist as a 'bubba'. Where did Occam's Razor go?
I really don't care if you feel singled out by my post. If you lower the discussion to that level you should be. I thought it was thoughtless, mean spirited, and to be honest, far below you.
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Reply #681 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:19 AM
The first half is pig-headed, and the second assumes that people here are fundamentalists who believe in the scenario you describe. I'd be willing to bet that only a fraction of Christians here believe that 'evolution' is a lie. Many Christians don't even believe in Satan, most that do don't see him as an entity with pointy horns. Many Christians don't even believe in hell. Cute parallel, though; an atheist who knows so much about religion and can't recite the seven deadly sins. No reason not to run your mouth about beliefs and people you don't understand, though, is it? Humble, you're not.
You aren't really portraying the average creationist, and you aren't making any valid points to persuade anyone toward your own beliefs, either. Actually, you are alienating people that would otherwise be neutral. Odd though, since stereotyping people based upon their beliefs is a kind of redneck thing to do. Have you ever been to a major cathedral, do you have any clue about who in modern society are 'creationists'? The profile you cite is asinine. It just assumes anyone of any importance agrees with you, and everyone else is a bumpkin. So, you wanna borrow Bubba's pointy hat and stereotype different races next?
Careful about how steamed you get about other people's beliefs. Slippery slope. You're already starting to sound like a bizzaro-Kona. Anyway, you did a good job ripping people for pretending to know about evolution and showing your ignorance of modern religion in the same breath.
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