Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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kona0197
Reply #662 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:07 PM
Reply #662 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:07 PM
I am starting to think that if God revealed himself to everyone on earth we would still have those that do not belive in him.
The hell with evolution!
The hell with evolution!
ToeJo
Reply #663 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:18 PM
Reply #663 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:18 PM
I think you all need to watch some more Veggie-Tales. Bob the Tomato can explain all this in one simple fun song.
If not, listen to something from these guys... http://www.audioa.com/
The evolution stuff...all it takes is one time for Christ to touch you as you fall on your knees balling your eyes out and you'll realize how silly the whole evolution thing really is.
Some things just cannot be explained...like why my wife just cannot get the sauce right when she fixes me peppersteak for dinner.
If not, listen to something from these guys... http://www.audioa.com/
The evolution stuff...all it takes is one time for Christ to touch you as you fall on your knees balling your eyes out and you'll realize how silly the whole evolution thing really is.
Some things just cannot be explained...like why my wife just cannot get the sauce right when she fixes me peppersteak for dinner.
kona0197
Reply #664 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:23 PM
EXACTLY... happended to me LONG time ago!
Evolution = Science BS!
Modern day scientists are nothing more than people dicovering certain things through high tech means that I already KNOW through my faith and THE WORD of GOD. Revelation expains everything that is going on in todays world, if you have the heart to comprehend and understand it! And the faith to believe that the Bible is more than just a BOOK that man wrote.
The Bible is a book written by God Through Man.
Reply #664 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:23 PM
| The evolution stuff...all it takes is one time for Christ to touch you as you fall on your knees balling your eyes out and you'll realize how silly the whole evolution thing really is. |
EXACTLY... happended to me LONG time ago!
Evolution = Science BS!
Modern day scientists are nothing more than people dicovering certain things through high tech means that I already KNOW through my faith and THE WORD of GOD. Revelation expains everything that is going on in todays world, if you have the heart to comprehend and understand it! And the faith to believe that the Bible is more than just a BOOK that man wrote.
The Bible is a book written by God Through Man.
Jafo
Reply #665 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:24 PM
Reply #665 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:24 PM
Kona....strangely, God can ONLY reveal himself to those who believe in his existence. If God were an individual entity he would not be so many different things to so many different peoples and religions, but must be a conceptual figurehead/icon of those very disparate religions.
If there is no belief then there cannot be a God [for those who do not believe].
One person's belief that there is none does not negate another's belief that there is one.
Both can be, and are CORRECT, as it is only the individual who can determine its truth.
kona0197
Reply #666 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:28 PM
Not true. God could walk the Earth right now and you would proably deny him. Just becuase YOU THINK he is not real dosen't mean he is not.
For Example: The human body is way to advanced and thought out when it was designed to be a evolved form of life..
Same with the earth: to perfect to NOT have been created.
Reply #666 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:28 PM
| If there is no belief then there cannot be a God [for those who do not believe]. |
Not true. God could walk the Earth right now and you would proably deny him. Just becuase YOU THINK he is not real dosen't mean he is not.
For Example: The human body is way to advanced and thought out when it was designed to be a evolved form of life..
Same with the earth: to perfect to NOT have been created.
Jafo
Reply #667 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:30 PM
Reply #667 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:30 PM
One person's belief that there is none does not negate another's belief that there is one.
paxx
Reply #669 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:36 PM
Reply #669 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:36 PM
Kona, if God himself appeared to you and told you "I do not exist", you would still not believe him.
More seriously. No, you're right, I wouldn't. I've worked in the psychiatric ward some years ago, and I can tell you that many told me they were God, and I didn't believe them. 
ToeJo
Reply #670 Monday, October 20, 2003 11:30 PM
I was not a believer. I thought the "Whole Jesus Kick" was a way for another thief to steal money from people who didn't have it. I always saw Christians as the biggest bunch of hypocrites. (Pardon my spelling)
No one talked me into "Seeing Christ." No one dictated to me what I was supposed to believe. I was "touched" emotionally and physically with something that was real to me. Something that I cannot put into words much less into type. When this happened I chose to believe in Christ. But as I have lived my life these last 6 years I have a demonstration of the truth in ways you wouldn't understand because you don't believe. To quote scripture to you would probably be foolish because you do not value it or see it for what it is...but none the less...
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Co. 1:18 NASB
Until you have that "touch" on your life, you will not understand. My prayer would be that you "Get it" someday...but the choice is yours...and always has been yours.
Reply #670 Monday, October 20, 2003 11:30 PM
| If there is no belief then there cannot be a God [for those who do not believe]. |
I was not a believer. I thought the "Whole Jesus Kick" was a way for another thief to steal money from people who didn't have it. I always saw Christians as the biggest bunch of hypocrites. (Pardon my spelling)
No one talked me into "Seeing Christ." No one dictated to me what I was supposed to believe. I was "touched" emotionally and physically with something that was real to me. Something that I cannot put into words much less into type. When this happened I chose to believe in Christ. But as I have lived my life these last 6 years I have a demonstration of the truth in ways you wouldn't understand because you don't believe. To quote scripture to you would probably be foolish because you do not value it or see it for what it is...but none the less...
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Co. 1:18 NASB
Until you have that "touch" on your life, you will not understand. My prayer would be that you "Get it" someday...but the choice is yours...and always has been yours.
IPlural
Reply #671 Monday, October 20, 2003 11:56 PM
Reply #671 Monday, October 20, 2003 11:56 PM
Why can't people take responsability for the good and bad that happens to them and because of them?
kona0197
Reply #672 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:14 AM
Reply #672 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:14 AM
Maybe us Christains should not mingle with non'believers...
After all there are only 2 Camps... Gods and the Evil ones
There is no Grey area.
After all there are only 2 Camps... Gods and the Evil ones
There is no Grey area.
Jafo
Reply #673 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:30 AM
Reply #673 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:30 AM
It's 'we Christians'....and it 'can' be arranged.....
kona0197
Reply #674 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:38 AM
for the sake of arguements Paul...
Reply #674 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:38 AM
| Maybe us Christains should not mingle with non'believers... |
for the sake of arguements Paul...
Aleatoric
Reply #675 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:43 AM
Reply #675 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:43 AM
Jafo,
'In spite of established religion (or the desire to have one) was pretty much my point. Reading my post, I see it could be taken either way, depending on the way it was read
.
Kona,
The idea that there is only one truth (and that the speaker only is in posession of it) is responsible for far more evil than any other human action in history.
Faith in God is only between God and the believer. I am not answerable to you for my belief, nor are you answerable to me. We are each only answerable to God, and only He may judge the worth of our actions.
Also, depending on your point of view, the earth and the human body certainly aren't perfect at all, let alone too perfect. Quite a bit of both systems are compromises between various subsystems. Again, God and evolution are *not* mutually exclusive concepts. It is entirely possible, and entirely likely, that both are truth.
By the way, you may have noticed that you had post #666
'In spite of established religion (or the desire to have one) was pretty much my point. Reading my post, I see it could be taken either way, depending on the way it was read
.Kona,
The idea that there is only one truth (and that the speaker only is in posession of it) is responsible for far more evil than any other human action in history.
Faith in God is only between God and the believer. I am not answerable to you for my belief, nor are you answerable to me. We are each only answerable to God, and only He may judge the worth of our actions.
Also, depending on your point of view, the earth and the human body certainly aren't perfect at all, let alone too perfect. Quite a bit of both systems are compromises between various subsystems. Again, God and evolution are *not* mutually exclusive concepts. It is entirely possible, and entirely likely, that both are truth.
By the way, you may have noticed that you had post #666
kona0197
Reply #677 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:49 AM
Yeah, that's funny.
Anyways I wanted to point out that although i typed you all are evil (in so many words) that I do not really think every one is evil if you do not believe.
Reply #677 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:49 AM
| By the way, you may have noticed that you had post #666 |
Yeah, that's funny.
Anyways I wanted to point out that although i typed you all are evil (in so many words) that I do not really think every one is evil if you do not believe.
kona0197
Reply #678 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:51 AM
If you do not believe...
Again, if you took that wrong I am sorry.
People are free to believe what they want.
About this evolotion crap - I believe we were created so it has no place in my mind.
Reply #678 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:51 AM
| Anyways I wanted to point out that although i typed you all are evil |
If you do not believe...
Again, if you took that wrong I am sorry.
People are free to believe what they want.
About this evolotion crap - I believe we were created so it has no place in my mind.
Aleatoric
Reply #679 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:09 AM
Reply #679 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:09 AM
Nothing about evolution denies creation. I place creation at the beginning of the universe, where the initial framework was designed to produce a particular result. I'm an engineer and I find greater wonder and power in a God who can design from a fundamental starting point that grows into the full scope of what we observe and deduce in our entire universe than one that was merely created from whole cloth a few thousand years ago.
UBoB
Reply #680 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:19 AM
Reply #680 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:19 AM
Found this one floating out there is space by someone who thinks as I do....that it's all a load of bunk.:
"I have determined, after extensive surveying, tabulation, and data analysis, that the average creationist in the US earns $21,387.29 in family income; owns 1.2 cars, 1.8 TVs, and 2.3 kids; and has, at some point in his life, answered to the name "Bubba." He has less than one year of college. Yet he knows more about paleontology than Bakker or Horner or Currie (or he thinks that what they know is wrong--same thing). He knows more about the definition of evolution than Gould or Dawkins. He knows more about biology than Dobzhansky or Mayr. He knows more about cosmology than Hawking, Smoot, or Witten, and more about human fossils than Johanson or the Leakeys. He knows more "true" geology than geologists, more "true" physics than physicists, more "true" astronomy than astronomers--and more about everything than atheists like Asimov or Sagan.
Humble, they're not.
And speaking of lack of humility:
Evolution is a lie, correct? It's an idea spawned by Satan to damn our souls. Okay, let's think about that. Satan gets the souls of sinners, correct? If he wants souls, he has to make humans sin. What are the seven sins? There's greed, lust, sloth, envy, gluttony, pride... and I can never remember the last one, but that's okay because the important one here is pride. The Bible goes to great lengths to say that terrible things lie in store for the proud in the great hereafter.
So which is an idea that contributes more to human pride: that we were specially created in the image of God to be the masters of all other creatures upon the Earth? Or that we are one species out of countless billions that has arisen according to simple and probably inevitable rules of chemistry and selection?"
My guess is that the "Bubba" part will spark the biggest uproar. However, the main thrust of the argument will be conveniently forgotten.
"I have determined, after extensive surveying, tabulation, and data analysis, that the average creationist in the US earns $21,387.29 in family income; owns 1.2 cars, 1.8 TVs, and 2.3 kids; and has, at some point in his life, answered to the name "Bubba." He has less than one year of college. Yet he knows more about paleontology than Bakker or Horner or Currie (or he thinks that what they know is wrong--same thing). He knows more about the definition of evolution than Gould or Dawkins. He knows more about biology than Dobzhansky or Mayr. He knows more about cosmology than Hawking, Smoot, or Witten, and more about human fossils than Johanson or the Leakeys. He knows more "true" geology than geologists, more "true" physics than physicists, more "true" astronomy than astronomers--and more about everything than atheists like Asimov or Sagan.
Humble, they're not.
And speaking of lack of humility:
Evolution is a lie, correct? It's an idea spawned by Satan to damn our souls. Okay, let's think about that. Satan gets the souls of sinners, correct? If he wants souls, he has to make humans sin. What are the seven sins? There's greed, lust, sloth, envy, gluttony, pride... and I can never remember the last one, but that's okay because the important one here is pride. The Bible goes to great lengths to say that terrible things lie in store for the proud in the great hereafter.
So which is an idea that contributes more to human pride: that we were specially created in the image of God to be the masters of all other creatures upon the Earth? Or that we are one species out of countless billions that has arisen according to simple and probably inevitable rules of chemistry and selection?"
My guess is that the "Bubba" part will spark the biggest uproar. However, the main thrust of the argument will be conveniently forgotten.
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Reply #661 Monday, October 20, 2003 10:03 PM