Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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UBoB
Reply #702 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 PM
Reply #702 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 PM
So fine, you want me to speak from experience? That would be better, right? IF you want me to speak on Christianity from my personal experience I would be glad to. I would be glad to tell you about the sadistic nuns at my Catholic school. I'd be glad to tell you how they loved using metal rulers to rip apart my knuckles. I'd love to tell you how they loved using the long wooden pointer across the back of my legs. I would be glad to tell you how these good Christian women loved to berate people in front of there peers, (does this style sound familiar?) to the point of reducing them to cowering, pant-wetting, terror stricken children.
Or perhaphs you would like to hear all about my stint as an altar boy. Would you like to hear all about the good Christian man and leader of our devout flock, Father Michael. Would you enjoy hearing of his "behind" the scenes antics.
If that's not enough, how about my own good Christian family. When I brought home my Jewish girlfriend they were mortified. How could I do this to them, they asked. Now there is a good Christian response to my bringing home someone I had feelings for. Oh, and how about when I told them we were getting married. "Only if she converts" was all I heard. Ah yes, the good Christian doctrine. Isn't it wonderful?
If these personal experiences with all these good Christians isn't enough, maybe I could tell you what my younger sister had to go through at the hands of these good Christians.
So what is it? Your stomach still in good enough shape to take some more of these wonderful anecdotes about all the good Christian experiences I've had?
And thanks for dredging up all those wonder memories. Thanks for erasing nearly 3 years of therapy. Thanks for pushing all the right buttons, getting my heart rate up dangerously high again. What? Did you read an early post of mine where I indicated I was a heart attack survivor and decide, yeah! that's the good Christian thing to do! Looks like today's good Christians are pretty much the same as yesterday's good Christians.
http://www.ospreyclassifiednetwork.com/classifieds/defaultobit.asp?newspaper=Kingston+Whig+Standard
Here's a direct link to my local newspaper's obits. I thought the good Christian thing to do would be to help you to easily check if your good Christian deeds will bear any fruit.
Or perhaphs you would like to hear all about my stint as an altar boy. Would you like to hear all about the good Christian man and leader of our devout flock, Father Michael. Would you enjoy hearing of his "behind" the scenes antics.
If that's not enough, how about my own good Christian family. When I brought home my Jewish girlfriend they were mortified. How could I do this to them, they asked. Now there is a good Christian response to my bringing home someone I had feelings for. Oh, and how about when I told them we were getting married. "Only if she converts" was all I heard. Ah yes, the good Christian doctrine. Isn't it wonderful?
If these personal experiences with all these good Christians isn't enough, maybe I could tell you what my younger sister had to go through at the hands of these good Christians.
So what is it? Your stomach still in good enough shape to take some more of these wonderful anecdotes about all the good Christian experiences I've had?
And thanks for dredging up all those wonder memories. Thanks for erasing nearly 3 years of therapy. Thanks for pushing all the right buttons, getting my heart rate up dangerously high again. What? Did you read an early post of mine where I indicated I was a heart attack survivor and decide, yeah! that's the good Christian thing to do! Looks like today's good Christians are pretty much the same as yesterday's good Christians.
http://www.ospreyclassifiednetwork.com/classifieds/defaultobit.asp?newspaper=Kingston+Whig+Standard
Here's a direct link to my local newspaper's obits. I thought the good Christian thing to do would be to help you to easily check if your good Christian deeds will bear any fruit.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #703 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:58 PM
Reply #703 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:58 PM
Why are you people still discussing this? Creationists deal with fantasy and evolutionist deal with reality. Such a simple concept which appears to be beyond the grasp of most of you 
Humankind is a flea bite on the existence of the universe. Deal with that reality and you will understand your importance
Humankind is a flea bite on the existence of the universe. Deal with that reality and you will understand your importance
kona0197
Reply #704 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:05 PM
Other way around Fuzzy. Creation is reality. Evoulution is Fantasy.
Bakerstreet:
I wanted to add that atheists do believe in God. After all you do have to acknowledge something before you deny it right?
Motion:
I am at a loss for words. Hang in there.
Reply #704 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:05 PM
| Why are you people still discussing this? Creationists deal with fantasy and evolutionist deal with reality. |
Other way around Fuzzy. Creation is reality. Evoulution is Fantasy.
Bakerstreet:
I wanted to add that atheists do believe in God. After all you do have to acknowledge something before you deny it right?
Motion:
I am at a loss for words. Hang in there.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #705 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:08 PM
Reply #705 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:08 PM
I believe in reality. I know what I can feel, what I can touch, what I can see. As far as I'm concerned the world was created 45 years ago. Prove me wrong...
kona0197
Reply #706 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:11 PM
You lack faith that's all. Not your fault.
I can not touch the moon. Does that mean it is not real? Because although I can see it that might be a illusion.
I can not see, or touch the core of the earth? does that mean it does not exist?
You guys are funny!
Reply #706 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:11 PM
| I believe in reality. I know what I can feel, what I can touch, what I can see. |
You lack faith that's all. Not your fault.
I can not touch the moon. Does that mean it is not real? Because although I can see it that might be a illusion.
I can not see, or touch the core of the earth? does that mean it does not exist?
You guys are funny!
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #707 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:21 PM
Reply #707 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:21 PM
You are so sad. I do have faith. I have faith in the things around me, the things I can see, the things I can touch. Why do you seek more? Is the world so empty that you should seek more? I am satisfied with what I have. I know there is so much to this universe and life that I do not understand. It fills me with a sense of wonder. I wish to explore this wonder myself, not to explain it away with some all powerful being. If you do that, the wonder will be forever beyond your grasp. It is I who pity you for the loss of your wonder...
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Jafo
Reply #708 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:21 PM
Reply #708 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:21 PM
Fuzzy.....proof it's older than 45?.....I'm 49....[and I didn't fail math]....
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #709 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:23 PM
Reply #709 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:23 PM
Jafo... prove to me you existed before I did
kona0197
Reply #710 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:26 PM
Reply #710 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:26 PM
Fuzzy: No matter what you are anyone else says I will not lose my faith.
I believe in God
I believe Jesus was his Son
I believe God created the Earth
I believe these are the Last Days
Nothing will change these deaths, even death itself.
And it is written "Blessed are those who are persecuted in the name of Jesus"
Bring it on... make fun of me.. I do not care you will not change me.
I believe in God
I believe Jesus was his Son
I believe God created the Earth
I believe these are the Last Days
Nothing will change these deaths, even death itself.
And it is written "Blessed are those who are persecuted in the name of Jesus"
Bring it on... make fun of me.. I do not care you will not change me.
kona0197
Reply #711 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:26 PM
Nothing will change these Beliefs (I meant to say!)
Reply #711 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:26 PM
| Nothing will change these deaths, even death itself. |
Nothing will change these Beliefs (I meant to say!)
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #713 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:45 PM
Reply #713 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:45 PM
Kona, we do not make fun of you. You ask us us to respect your faith. We do. Please respect our individual faiths too. My belief is in the wonder of this universe. It is a wonder I do not understand or recognise the purpose of. But it is something I will not simply explain away. I will spend the rest of my life searching for an answer. I will not find that answer. So be it. The next generation will contine the search. But to simply give in and explain everything away is such a loss.
Faith is not what we believe, it is what we seek. True believers are not people who know the answer, they are people who seek the answer. As yet there is no answer, that is something you can believe...
Faith is not what we believe, it is what we seek. True believers are not people who know the answer, they are people who seek the answer. As yet there is no answer, that is something you can believe...
Doreen
Reply #718 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:15 PM
Reply #718 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:15 PM
motion I'm sorry to see that up there *sigh*
"try" not to lose any faith in God you have left (if any at all) over what other "ppl" have done to you...
"try" not to lose any faith in God you have left (if any at all) over what other "ppl" have done to you...
Aleatoric
Reply #719 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:38 PM
Reply #719 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:38 PM
Kona,
Even if God Himself came to you and told you otherwise?
motion,
Sorry to hear about the events of your youth. There's no question that such people were not really working for God, but only for their dogma (and doing badly even at that).
That's one of the reasons I eschew religion in favor of God. Far too often, religion corrupts the true meaning of God for the interests of a few humans.
Take care.
| Nothing will change these Beliefs |
Even if God Himself came to you and told you otherwise?
motion,
Sorry to hear about the events of your youth. There's no question that such people were not really working for God, but only for their dogma (and doing badly even at that).
That's one of the reasons I eschew religion in favor of God. Far too often, religion corrupts the true meaning of God for the interests of a few humans.
Take care.
bakerstreet
Reply #720 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:44 PM
Reply #720 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:44 PM
Motion: nothing you described are "good Christian experiences". To call them such is to lie to yourself, and to at least partially excuse the people who harmed you by making a villain of their religion.
Pedophilia and physical abuse isn't specific to religion, I think that is obvious to anyone. I could relate the deaths and torture of untold millions at the hands of atheists in China and the Soviet Union, how rape and torture are still used today to 're-educate' the religious there. The purges in those two countries silenced over 100 million people. It would be wrong of me to blame those things on atheism, or communism, and it is wrong, though understandable, for you to associate your awful experiences with God, Creationists, or Christianity.
All creationists are not 'bubba', all nuns are not abusive, and all priests are not pedophiles. I have a great deal of sympathy for you, and I am sorry this dredged all that up, but I stand by my belief that forcing blanket definitions on literally billions of people who believe in a Creator is wrong. I hope that you will find eventually that you were wronged by people, not by God or spirituality as a whole.
Pedophilia and physical abuse isn't specific to religion, I think that is obvious to anyone. I could relate the deaths and torture of untold millions at the hands of atheists in China and the Soviet Union, how rape and torture are still used today to 're-educate' the religious there. The purges in those two countries silenced over 100 million people. It would be wrong of me to blame those things on atheism, or communism, and it is wrong, though understandable, for you to associate your awful experiences with God, Creationists, or Christianity.
All creationists are not 'bubba', all nuns are not abusive, and all priests are not pedophiles. I have a great deal of sympathy for you, and I am sorry this dredged all that up, but I stand by my belief that forcing blanket definitions on literally billions of people who believe in a Creator is wrong. I hope that you will find eventually that you were wronged by people, not by God or spirituality as a whole.
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Reply #701 Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:49 PM