Disappointed
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 by MadIce | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I am on IRC a lot and see different skinners. Often I am lucky to see a preview of the work they make. With me there are more people. GreenReaper, Voo, pjpowel, Adam, DaWebMassa, Snowman, Hippy, MikeB314 and may others. The fun part is that sometimes you can be involved on a skin, but in this case I was not. But I know some of the others helped.
Today I was shocked by ratings that I saw. A skin suite by Starone that was not your middle of the road skin, but showed creativity. These days creativity is almost a bad word. In these days you see more and more middle of the road skins. A lot of skins are starting to look like others. So, when someone comes with something new you'll see the skin is rated by fools that probably never made a skin in their entire life and don't have any clue how much work is involved.
It looks like the rating system is going to change and that probably Journeymen and higher can vote. This looks like a very good idea, because we can have a system in which skinners are rating skinners.
Of course a skinner skins for fun, but this suite was 2 months work. It was truely creative. And some of the pieces were rated a 4 while they should be rated a 9 or so.
I do rate skins. I have rated hundreds of WB skins and sometimes DXPlayer objects, because this is what I am good in. Today I have taken the liberty that I have to rate skins that I normally would not rate. There was a little anger when I did this.
I don't want to bring Starone into trouble and I don't want to become a whiner, but I was really disappointed today...
Keep on skinning Starone!
Today I was shocked by ratings that I saw. A skin suite by Starone that was not your middle of the road skin, but showed creativity. These days creativity is almost a bad word. In these days you see more and more middle of the road skins. A lot of skins are starting to look like others. So, when someone comes with something new you'll see the skin is rated by fools that probably never made a skin in their entire life and don't have any clue how much work is involved.
It looks like the rating system is going to change and that probably Journeymen and higher can vote. This looks like a very good idea, because we can have a system in which skinners are rating skinners.
Of course a skinner skins for fun, but this suite was 2 months work. It was truely creative. And some of the pieces were rated a 4 while they should be rated a 9 or so.
I do rate skins. I have rated hundreds of WB skins and sometimes DXPlayer objects, because this is what I am good in. Today I have taken the liberty that I have to rate skins that I normally would not rate. There was a little anger when I did this.
I don't want to bring Starone into trouble and I don't want to become a whiner, but I was really disappointed today...
Keep on skinning Starone!
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elvee
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:04 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:04 PM
Well Apprentice and higher at the present can rate, and I'll bet 90% of those are skinners. I have great admiration of Starone's work. It is not the visitor's rating at all, I hope it doesn't bump up to Journeyman because i will lose the ability to rate. I don't rate every piece I see and sometimes I question whether something should be rated at all. I have been around long enough in the Skinning Community and believe I have good judgment on the quality and workmanship of a skin. Starone is a wonderful artist. Her style may not appeal to everyone, but that makes no difference on the quality of her work. One thing people could try...look at the work before worrying about who the author is.
MadIce
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:15 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:15 PM
Raising the bar to Journeymen would be a good idea for the reasons mentioned by sig101.
Jafo
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:33 PM
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:33 PM
Matthijs....I'll take a look at this specific situation and see whether anything is 'inappropriate' with the posted ratings...
sig101
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:09 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:09 PM
elvee: Journeyman was what Frogboy proposed, but I agree with you also on Apprentice, either way it's generally someone who's had a record of contributing to the site/community in some recognized fashion. But right now anyone who's bought an SD app or a WC subscription can rate work on this site while still being a "citizen."
sig101
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:31 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:31 PM
(
here I was supporting taking my rating ability away as a citizen, but I just noticed I'm not one anymore. Oh well....still, I wouldn't mind if I couldn't rate others' work. One could still comment and hopefully usefully so.)
here I was supporting taking my rating ability away as a citizen, but I just noticed I'm not one anymore. Oh well....still, I wouldn't mind if I couldn't rate others' work. One could still comment and hopefully usefully so.)
e-bros
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:38 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:38 PM
MadIce, wow this is a real shame if Starone was downvoted on a truly quality skin and for what? She's always stayed pretty much outta the limelite and just posted skinz. Hmm 
We haven't tested out the skin in question but we hope the matter gets resolved.
We haven't tested out the skin in question but we hope the matter gets resolved.
MadIce
Reply #9 Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:28 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:28 AM
Jafo, I don't think anything "inapproriate" will be found. Just people voting low on several skins that have more quality than most middle of the road skins.
Today, I checked the the skins again and at least the average has gone up a bit.
e-bros: Starone is indeed a skinner that stays out of the limelite. Probaly she doesn't even like I started this thread. Skinners are easily demotivated when things like this happen. I just hope she will continue.
Today, I checked the the skins again and at least the average has gone up a bit.
e-bros: Starone is indeed a skinner that stays out of the limelite. Probaly she doesn't even like I started this thread. Skinners are easily demotivated when things like this happen. I just hope she will continue.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #10 Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:35 AM
Reply #10 Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:35 AM
I havnt seen it yet but If starone did it you can bet it was at least an 8.
MadIce
Reply #11 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:28 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:28 AM
The fact that a lot of people download a given skin does not mean the skin is any good. Also, the fact that people rate a skin high will not ensure that the skin will be downloaded a lot.
There are several reasons why a rating can be too high or too low. The ratings suffer under the pressure of popular middle of the road skins, under the popularity of a skinner or on the taste of the rater. One can probably find more of such reasons.
Another thing I noticed that there are a lot of male visitors here (see the current poll) and because of that there are a lot of male raters. There are not a lot of female skinners. Alexandrie, Doreen, Sylva_cg76, Shmoopy, starone and Keila are just a few we all know. Alexandrie is one of those who's skins appeal to a large audience and some of the others' skins may appeal to mainly females. My point is that in the latter case the raters are often male with a different taste. Yet another reason how ratings may be effected.
I am not telling that in this particular instance the above may be the case, but raters should be aware of these issues.
There are several reasons why a rating can be too high or too low. The ratings suffer under the pressure of popular middle of the road skins, under the popularity of a skinner or on the taste of the rater. One can probably find more of such reasons.
Another thing I noticed that there are a lot of male visitors here (see the current poll) and because of that there are a lot of male raters. There are not a lot of female skinners. Alexandrie, Doreen, Sylva_cg76, Shmoopy, starone and Keila are just a few we all know. Alexandrie is one of those who's skins appeal to a large audience and some of the others' skins may appeal to mainly females. My point is that in the latter case the raters are often male with a different taste. Yet another reason how ratings may be effected.
I am not telling that in this particular instance the above may be the case, but raters should be aware of these issues.
Frogboy
Reply #12 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:57 AM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:57 AM
I just checked the rating on that recent skin. It's 8/10. What's wrong with that?
DaWebMassa
Reply #13 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:59 AM
Reply #13 Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:59 AM
MadIce, it seems to matter not the gender but the popularity thing. I've had someone go to a few of my skins and do thier best at downgrading the ratings which I am sure others have experienced as well. As IR Brainiac said in another thread, sometimes I run through and give a boost to the ratings where I feel animosity or other motives were used to lower the rating.
MadIce
Reply #14 Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:05 AM
Ah. Probably the WB skin, Brad. The other RomanEye skins were rated 4s, 5 and 6. The WB skin and wall are from a later date. The avarages are now a bit up.
[Message Edited]
Reply #14 Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:05 AM
| I just checked the rating on that recent skin. It's 8/10. What's wrong with that? |
Ah. Probably the WB skin, Brad. The other RomanEye skins were rated 4s, 5 and 6. The WB skin and wall are from a later date. The avarages are now a bit up.
[Message Edited]
MadIce
Reply #15 Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:14 AM
Reply #15 Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:14 AM
Well, Rich. As you have read I said that it is something that may consider. I was very carefull about that and also gave various other reasons. So, let me repeat that I am not telling it was the gender differences in this particular instance, but raters should be aware of these issues. That's all.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #16 Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:23 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:23 PM
DaWebMassa ,sometimes its hard to know what to do...I have done that occasionally but never more than 1 point higher than what I thought they really deserved and only when I thought someone was being treated really badly.In effect tho that makes ME a ratings abuser!
Jafo
Reply #17 Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:31 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:31 PM
Matthijs....I did as I said I would.....checked them all....one person early on posted 'low-ish' ratings which affected the overall....not inherently evil or indicative of a pattern of 'abuse', and subsequent ratings restored what would be a commonly accepted result....not an actionable occurence..
MadIce
Reply #18 Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:52 PM
Reply #18 Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:52 PM
Jafo: Thank you for checking. It was not a "malicious" rating. That was not the problem. The problem was ignorance. When I see that then it is a good example of how ratings should not work. That's all.
DaWebMassa
Reply #19 Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:53 PM
Reply #19 Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:53 PM
Yes IR, I do the same. I try not to abuse it but if I feel the rating is extremely unfair, I tweak accordingly.
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #20 Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:04 PM
Reply #20 Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:04 PM
SuperheroCanadian doesnt like the idea of people being able to buy there way to being able to rate
I dont why understand that people who buy subscriptions should "deserve" this, i always thought it was a privlage earned not bought....
[Message Edited]
I dont why understand that people who buy subscriptions should "deserve" this, i always thought it was a privlage earned not bought....
[Message Edited]
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Reply #1 Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:24 PM
I do think it would be just fine if generally only skinners can rate other skinners. I generally go by the looks and functions but I don't dog work I don't care for or wouldn't use. But a fellow skinner could likely have a much greater appreciation of the quality of the graphics and design and the labor that goes into a work. Also, with only skinners rating skins, perhaps those who otherwise would be tempted to dog a perceived "rival" will be less inclined to do so since clearly the raters will be a more restricted group and more people are gradually learning that the mods really do see all.