For Pay Skin Packs the wave of the future?

Wednesday, July 16, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

I was inspired by Grayhaze's post on donations ( https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=167122 ) to write this article.

In the good old days, a WindowBlinds skin or a Winamp skin or whatever could be started and finished in a few hours. I know, I used to make them.

As time has gone on, a good skin now takes 20 to 50 hours each and that's assuming no colorization support, no sub-styles, no plugins, etc.

Stardock's been working to make it easier to create the more common style of skins with a new skin format called the Universal Skin Format. With USF, the title bar buttons can be on the left or right but are otherwise pretty much set and a lot of the other parts of the skin are automated.

But UIS2, the skin format for WindowBlinds that is very free form, will continue to evolve to gain new features. And as a result, making a fully featured skin of quality now takes a lot of time to do. I think the same thing will happen to other skin formats as the programs they are for become increasingly feature rich.

And while non-skin authors sometimes have a hard time understanding it, there is an invisible threshold between when something is fun to do and when something becomes work. And at that point, the author will want something in return.

That something can come in many forms. Props from their friends. I can tell you that a kind word, a showing of appreciation, recognition, etc. goes a long way. When I make something and share it freely with others, it really does make it worth it to see people say kind things about it or for a website to feature it or whatever.

But another form of compensation is financial. I think what will increasingly happen is that skin authors who have been around a long while and have freely contributed for a long while, having created fan bases, will start to occasionally release "suites". Pixtudio started the trend and others have followed. To keep that fan base strong and to keep public recognition and to keep the community thriving, these "pro" skinners will still release lots of free stuff. In fact, arguably, it'll be the "pros" who release the most/best free stuff because they can justify the time because a) they like doing it and it helps promote their non-paid stuff.

But going Pro means putting ones business hat on. It means making a decision whether to go it alone or to work with a publisher. Going with a publisher means giving up a large percentage of the proceeds in exchange for hoping to get more income overall.

This can be a bitter pill to swallow on the surface. For instance, on Galactic Civilizations, Stardock paid for development, hosts the website, handles the support, and does quite a bit of the marketing and our HOPED for per unit revenue on this $40+ game is about $10. 25% of the sales price. I.e. that's our BEST case scenario. But the idea is that instead of selling only 5,000 units at $40, we'll sell 60,000 units at $10.

The same is true on skins and themes.

A good suite sold by Stardock, for instance, can sell anywhere between 1,500 to 2,500 units per year. At $9 apiece, that's up to $22,500.  25% of that would be $5,600 in royalties.  So then the question is, can you make more than $5,600 selling it yourself or in some other fashion? Is $5,600 worth your time to create a suite?

And if so, what about making 2 or 3 of them per year? Now you're at $10,000 to $15,000 per year. Enough to upgrade your hardware and justify to yourself and your parents or wife or husband the time you put into it as well as "feeling good" about the community.

Which is where things return to -- the skinning community. Joe graphics designer is not going to be able to make mega skins and get them sold in quantity without having already become well known in the community. Similarly, skin authors who go "pure pro" are likely to lose out because as competition grows, people will choose the suites made by people they've heard of and who have given a lot to the community in the past and present.

So ironically, it is my belief that as time goes on, it may be the for pay suites that help drive the creation of free skins. Free skins from up and comers who are trying to gain recognition and a resume and free skins from pro skinners who are trying to keep that recognition and be able to supliment their income by doing something they love and are good at.

 

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paxx
Reply #1 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:13 PM

Personnaly I can't see myself be bothered with selling skins or suites. It could never bring enough money to be worth the work and the trouble. When people purchase something they expect things to be 100% bug free, and they probably expect a free upgrade to the next version of the software, and they yell and bitch if it's not up to their expectations. But when you do it for free, you can allow a few bugs, you can allow to not have every single feature skinned, and you can just decide to drop a skin if you want to.  A professionnal skin can take one full month to make, full time (ask Grayhaze), and a full suite can take a few months. That much work for what? Most likely no more than 2,000$. Even in the improbable case where it would bring $5,000, it's not worth it for a job that took 3 months to do.

I respect those who do it. But not for me. It just doesn't pay enough for the trouble. 

grayhaze
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:34 PM
What you've said makes a lot of sense Brad, and I consider you to be one of the more knowledgable people on the subject, as you've overseen the emergence of commercial skins.

In my last post in my 'donations thread' I mentioned the fact that even if I were to create both commercial and free skins, I simply wouldn't be able to spend less time on the free skins than I would on the commercial ones. I wouldn't be able to 'lower my standards' to knock out a rapid succession of basic low-feature skins, as it's just not the way I work. The money gained from the commercial skins would therefore need to be enough to cover the resources used by the creation of all the skins, and the price tag for that would be too high to expect people to pay.

In a way I think it's an unfortunate side effect of the increasing feature list of WindowBlinds, and in many respects other recent skinnable applications. As you said, in the past skins took a lot less time to produce because there was a much smaller number of features to add. While nobody would argue that WindowBlinds and the others should stop expanding, it's got to the point now where creating a good skin which uses all the features available takes weeks rather than days. If you don't skin all available features, you get bad comments. So it's almost a no-win situation for the skinner.

I remember my first WB skin took me around a week to produce. That included getting to grips with the format and coming up with the design. The same skin now would, and in fact did, take almost a month and a half of solid work. Part of the increase in time was down to a higher working standard on my part, but the majority was down to the seemingly never-ending list of features which needed to be worked on.

I think it's only natural that skinners progress to producing a lot more commercial skins. I would question the idea of them needing to produce many free skins in addition though. It's almost like a car manufacturer producing sub-standard cars and giving them away for free in the hopes of generating a market for their expensive fully-featured models. If we're really putting our business hats on, I believe there's only one logical route for the professional skinner to take.
grayhaze
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:37 PM
Can I just say, I can imagine the 'all skins should be free' crowd having heart attacks at this very moment.
IPlural
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:40 PM
I find I do totally agree with Frogboy on all of his post.
IPlural
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:10 PM
or had a mind burp because the thought that they might have to puy something into the process throws em and are still stunned.
[Message Edited]
messybuu
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:42 PM
What about the idea of releasing a crippled version of a skin for free, while having the entire skin as something that needs to be purchased? I hear that it works in software, and it might in skins as well.



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grayhaze
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:46 PM
I have to admit that I considered doing that with a skin Messy Buu, especially as my skins tend to contain a lot of sub-skins. It's something to consider, but you would then end up with a site full of crippled skins.
Jafo
Reply #8 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:46 PM

Kevin....my suggestion about creating normal 'free' skins and only some being singled out for 'payment' has/had nothing to do with the idea of 'pumping out basic skins'......what I meant was that you continue 'high quality' standards/production....but sacrifice some for mass-recognition [brand awareness] and let the others carry the cost/s.....

I think Pixtudio's strength/s is in their continued releases of 'free skins', while pursuing the commercial work as well.....especially when the Commercial work may not be so accessible to the general community.

You can sell the best product in the world, sitting on a street corner with a whole pile of stock....but '$1000 for magic cure' will see precious little sales....but when a freebie reveals the 'magic cure' is for cancer then customers will beat a path to the door...1000 or 10,000 will make no difference.

Sacrificial 'freebies' promotes the brand to a wide and diverse audience.....some of which will go on to purchase the 'non-freebies' as well....it's good business sense, that's all...

TheSkinsFactory
Reply #9 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:58 PM
You don't cripple a skin, man that's just wrong. You sell it or you don't.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #10 Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:02 AM
Oh and pixtudio's success is in their artistic value, not because they release free ones. When it comes down to coughing up the cash, i really doubt users are going to say well Pixtudio gave us a free one last month so i'm going to buy a suite this month. They are going to look at the quality of art and ask themselves how much do they want it. That will determine the sale. In my humble opinion of course.
grayhaze
Reply #11 Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:27 AM
I tend to agree with you. The majority of potential buyers wouldn't even know about the free skins available by the author, as the sheer volume of skins on the site makes it very rare for a skin by a particular author to be visible to the casual browser. If the skin's good enough to buy, they'll do so.

Although I believe there are those who buy skins just to show their appreciation to the authors, I think those individuals tend to be long-standing members of the site who have seen the authors' talents grow over time. In comparison to the casual visitors those people are in a very small minority.
grayhaze
Reply #12 Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:29 AM
As for 'crippling' a skin, I would take that to mean offering a small selection of the available sub-skins in one of my skins for free download, but only offering the more powerful ones and things like custom colour versions for purchase. Would that be so wrong?
paxx
Reply #13 Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:57 AM

grayhaze, it's just a guess, but I believe that the people who buy skins only to support a particular artist, or to show their thanks, would not be so much enclined to do so if one author only released pay skins. I believe that people show their support not so much for that one particular skin, but as a way to say "Thanks too for all the other amazing free skins you make".

I could be wrong, though.

grayhaze
Reply #14 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:33 AM
As I said paxx, there are those people who take that approach, but I believe they are in the minority. By not creating free skins, you would only be losing out on that small fraction of sales, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't pay for the development of free skins alone.
IPlural
Reply #15 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:38 AM
dang I'm a minority now?

was joking but it is a fact, I've purchased icon packs and skins that I don't even use. Same with some other programs such as WInStep, Hoverdesk and Aston. But then again I'm a goof soooo...

Jafo
Reply #16 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:51 AM
I think you'll find that paxx is more correct than you may be hoping. I have paid for things to support skinners and skinning...and have never bothered to use them....the purchase was for the support, not the use....
grayhaze
Reply #17 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:51 AM
I certainly didn't intend any offense by saying that you're in a minority IPlural, as I consider it a good minority. Those who follow an artist's work and then use the opportunity to buy a commercial skin as a way of saying thank you are a testament to the community spirit. However, it's a fact that the majority of visitors to this site are casual visitors who don't participate in the message boards or release their own skins, and who only come here to download skins. To those people, they only see the skin and not the author behind it.
grayhaze
Reply #18 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:54 AM
I wasn't disagreeing with his point Jafo, only stating that those people aren't the major contributing force to commercial sales IMHO. I could be completely wrong, and every single sale of a commercial skin is down to a general appreciation of an artist's work, but I'd be extremely surprised to find that the case.
Jafo
Reply #19 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:56 AM
Sometimes I think I'm invisible......just passing through unnoticed...
grayhaze
Reply #20 Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:59 AM
Who said that?

grayhaze glances around suspiciously

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