For Pay Skin Packs the wave of the future?
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I was inspired by Grayhaze's post on donations ( https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=167122 ) to write this article.
In the good old days, a WindowBlinds skin or a Winamp skin or whatever could be started and finished in a few hours. I know, I used to make them.
As time has gone on, a good skin now takes 20 to 50 hours each and that's assuming no colorization support, no sub-styles, no plugins, etc.
Stardock's been working to make it easier to create the more common style of skins with a new skin format called the Universal Skin Format. With USF, the title bar buttons can be on the left or right but are otherwise pretty much set and a lot of the other parts of the skin are automated.
But UIS2, the skin format for WindowBlinds that is very free form, will continue to evolve to gain new features. And as a result, making a fully featured skin of quality now takes a lot of time to do. I think the same thing will happen to other skin formats as the programs they are for become increasingly feature rich.
And while non-skin authors sometimes have a hard time understanding it, there is an invisible threshold between when something is fun to do and when something becomes work. And at that point, the author will want something in return.
That something can come in many forms. Props from their friends. I can tell you that a kind word, a showing of appreciation, recognition, etc. goes a long way. When I make something and share it freely with others, it really does make it worth it to see people say kind things about it or for a website to feature it or whatever.
But another form of compensation is financial. I think what will increasingly happen is that skin authors who have been around a long while and have freely contributed for a long while, having created fan bases, will start to occasionally release "suites". Pixtudio started the trend and others have followed. To keep that fan base strong and to keep public recognition and to keep the community thriving, these "pro" skinners will still release lots of free stuff. In fact, arguably, it'll be the "pros" who release the most/best free stuff because they can justify the time because a) they like doing it and
it helps promote their non-paid stuff.
But going Pro means putting ones business hat on. It means making a decision whether to go it alone or to work with a publisher. Going with a publisher means giving up a large percentage of the proceeds in exchange for hoping to get more income overall.
This can be a bitter pill to swallow on the surface. For instance, on Galactic Civilizations, Stardock paid for development, hosts the website, handles the support, and does quite a bit of the marketing and our HOPED for per unit revenue on this $40+ game is about $10. 25% of the sales price. I.e. that's our BEST case scenario. But the idea is that instead of selling only 5,000 units at $40, we'll sell 60,000 units at $10.
The same is true on skins and themes.
A good suite sold by Stardock, for instance, can sell anywhere between 1,500 to 2,500 units per year. At $9 apiece, that's up to $22,500. 25% of that would be $5,600 in royalties. So then the question is, can you make more than $5,600 selling it yourself or in some other fashion? Is $5,600 worth your time to create a suite?
And if so, what about making 2 or 3 of them per year? Now you're at $10,000 to $15,000 per year. Enough to upgrade your hardware and justify to yourself and your parents or wife or husband the time you put into it as well as "feeling good" about the community.
Which is where things return to -- the skinning community. Joe graphics designer is not going to be able to make mega skins and get them sold in quantity without having already become well known in the community. Similarly, skin authors who go "pure pro" are likely to lose out because as competition grows, people will choose the suites made by people they've heard of and who have given a lot to the community in the past and present.
So ironically, it is my belief that as time goes on, it may be the for pay suites that help drive the creation of free skins. Free skins from up and comers who are trying to gain recognition and a resume and free skins from pro skinners who are trying to keep that recognition and be able to supliment their income by doing something they love and are good at.
Reply #22 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:15 AM
Okay, I accept that free skins can be a good form of promotion to increase sales of commercial ones, but I still stand by my belief that the increase isn't sufficient to justify the creation of those free skins. Even reducing production values doesn't make it possible to create a full WB4 skin in a couple of days. In order for the free skins to be a viable method of promotion, they would have to increase sales by hundreds or even thousands of units, and I just don't believe that to be the case.
Reply #23 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:20 AM
Hey....one sale of one skin is better than no sales of any skins....and how else do people get to taste your wares?
At the moment, say you make 10 skins....and get no income...fine.
Now you make 10 skins, but charge for 5.....still no income?.....probably not....
Reply #24 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:24 AM
I design houses for family....don't charge a cent....but design houses for clients and they get charged. Do I create an inferior product for the 'freebie'? No....
Sit in the corner with a heap of product and no sample pots and you'll get nowhere.
The 'free' skins will be more important to your enterprise than the paid ones...believe it or not...
Reply #25 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:27 AM
grayhaze, that's where we differ in opinion. I believe that the vast majority of people buying skins for sale do it mainly to support the artist.
I don't mean any offense, but I really don't think many people would actually buy any skin just for the skin itself. There are after all, a great amount of very very nice skins available for free. Maybe if the day comes when there are no good skins for free anymore, will that happen, but I don't see this day any time soon.
Reply #26 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:27 AM

Reply #27 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:30 AM

Reply #28 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:33 AM
If what you say is true and people only pay for skins to support an artist, then how do you explain the fact that donations don't work? Surely those asking for donations should be making just as much as those who sell a skin outright...
Reply #29 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:41 AM
grayhaze, ok, see it as an offense then. But while pay skins are excellent, there are plenty of equally good free skins. And I am sure that Pixtudio would be the first ones to admit it.
As for why donations don't work, I don't know. Maybe there is the matter of knowledge. I, as many others have pointed out, didn't even know you were asking for donations. But I think there is some other weird psychological factor. I think a lot of people are more inclined to BUY for support rather than donate.
Reply #30 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:51 AM

Reply #31 Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:00 AM

Reply #32 Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:07 AM
Again I could be wrong, and I mean no disrespect toward them, but I haven't seen nearly as many free skins being released from those parties since they started producing commercial suites. They get the majority of their money from producing skins for commercial clients, with the commercial skin suites providing a smaller steady income.
Reply #33 Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:28 AM
For what it's worth, I would buy skins/icons for the design, whether I had heard of the author or not, and it would make no difference to me, if the author had never released a free skin in his life. Take mormegil's Orion icon suite.......... I had to have them. It was a plus that Paul had produced them, but it wouldn't have mattered, who made them.
Donations..... If the skin was fantastic (IMHO), I may intend to contribute, but I get distracted so easily, I may never get around to it.......... but it would never happen with with Pay Pal. Something about Pay Pal has always bothered me, and I would be more likely to send a money order.
But, I'm not a typical example. I mainly use stuff I'm working on, and a skin has to be something really special before I would want to buy it.
Other the other hand, if I had more disposeable income, I would probably purchase everything available.
Just my 2 cents........ take for what it's worth. (not much) 

Reply #34 Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:05 AM
I'm really not keen on PayPal either so far as that goes.
Certainly GH don't take the lack of support as lack of appreciation. I really don't believe that's the case. Of course as my wife is fond of pointing out, I've been wrong before

Reply #35 Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:21 AM
They are now actually one of the safest and easiest online payment providers, and offer a huge range of features for sellers and buyers which would otherwise cost a lot to sign up for with other companies.
I'm not saying this because I have anything to gain from it (aside from calming the fears of those who are put off from using the system), but rather because it annoys me somewhat that people refuse to use a company's product because of rumours and second-hand stories of woe.
If anyone knows of any company which provides the same services in a better way, then I'd be more than happy to listen.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand.

Reply #36 Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:44 AM
To me (not you but in general) it seems when you first start making something and its not that good you don't care who likes and who don't but once you get real good at what you do all of a sudden you put a charge on, fair enough if you do it for a living but if you end up doing it expecting cash then its the end, the fun just goes, you can't say it took me ages and i tried really hard so pay me...you do it cause you want to not because your getting orders, sometimes that can make you feel guilty enough to pay.
Reply #37 Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:49 AM
| Again I could be wrong, and I mean no disrespect toward them, but I haven't seen nearly as many free skins being released from those parties since they started producing commercial suites. |
Since Mike and I started Skinplant. we have released 3 free suites, and I did a new Sysmetrix skin only two weeks ago.
But we've only made 1 premium suite.
Before Skinplant even existed, my only contribution for the entire first 6 months of this year was 2 WB skins.
We've put out more freebies since joining up together.
And when Prometheus and Avenger went up, we got a few more sales on Solara.
[Message Edited]
Reply #38 Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:04 AM
Reply #39 Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:57 AM
Obviously you don't have to answer this, but were the extra sales enough to support the development of those free skins? That's my main point about the free skins really. It's all well and good if free skins do create extra sales for the commercial ones, but if there aren't enough of those extra sales, is it really time well spent?
I can see there is a definate divide between people on the issue, as some agree with me and some don't. I guess the thing to do is just to find what works for you as an individual and go with it.
I don't necessarily agree with the idea that skins should only be made for fun, and asking money for them takes away that fun. I don't believe there's ever been a rule book written on who is and who isn't justified to make skins, and what their motives must be in creating them. I do still enjoy making skins, but I'm willing to sacrifice a little of the 'fun' element in favour of creating the best skins I can. If I then need to charge to support the extra work that creates, then so be it. If someone wants to pay they will.
Reply #40 Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:02 AM
These days there are still those who think everything on the web should be free and that it should be one big open-source activity. The web is now big business though, and there are those companies who sell web designs in almost the same way as skins are sold.
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Reply #21 Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:10 AM