Phase Out web browser...
Wednesday, July 2, 2003 by joetheblow | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Has anyone tried to use thise browser that Frogboy posted in the news? Anybody try to skin it yet? (can't download it myself because my computer doesn't have an internet connection anymore)
The site is:
http://www.phaseout.net/
So what do you think?
The site is:
http://www.phaseout.net/
So what do you think?
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Wommers
Reply #42 Sunday, July 6, 2003 3:11 PM
Reply #42 Sunday, July 6, 2003 3:11 PM
and not to mention mr hooge, whose name has been infringed on. sigh
joetheblow
Reply #43 Sunday, July 6, 2003 3:28 PM
Reply #43 Sunday, July 6, 2003 3:28 PM
The slope just gets more slippery by the minute.
Well, it all will be sorted out hopefully. I think if thier are serious about being a company in today's climate, Phase Out will have to conform to the demands.
Well, it all will be sorted out hopefully. I think if thier are serious about being a company in today's climate, Phase Out will have to conform to the demands.
Jafo
Reply #44 Sunday, July 6, 2003 5:48 PM
Reply #44 Sunday, July 6, 2003 5:48 PM
A letter has been sent. I intend to keep it 'confidential', but time will tell exactly how willing PhaseOut is to be seen to be doing the right thing.
Contacting third-party users of the product is not an option, as it muddies the waters with issues of potential 'libel'.
I'm confident that PhaseOut will respond favourably...
IPlural
Reply #46 Sunday, July 6, 2003 6:43 PM
Possibly and no I did not consider everything which is a bit obvious
If things do not work out directly, then a lawyer would be the best next step.
frogboy made an extremal valid point about the skin community ignoring the app because of it if things do not work out, also that they have already responded to an email,
It is a nice app, just as he (frogboy) points out also.
PhaseOut might become Phased Out before it even Fades in completely
Reply #46 Sunday, July 6, 2003 6:43 PM
| Contacting third-party users of the product is not an option, as it muddies the waters with issues of potential 'libel'. |
Possibly and no I did not consider everything which is a bit obvious
If things do not work out directly, then a lawyer would be the best next step.
frogboy made an extremal valid point about the skin community ignoring the app because of it if things do not work out, also that they have already responded to an email,
It is a nice app, just as he (frogboy) points out also.
PhaseOut might become Phased Out before it even Fades in completely
Jafo
Reply #47 Monday, July 7, 2003 5:32 AM
Reply #47 Monday, July 7, 2003 5:32 AM
yrag....I believe I am right when I said I was confident of favourable response....chalk up another to the powers of good communication...
Drop125
Reply #49 Monday, July 7, 2003 4:48 PM
Reply #49 Monday, July 7, 2003 4:48 PM
Im still confused over this whole thing, and am now looking at mozzilla!!!!!
DaWebMassa
Reply #50 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 8:32 AM
Reply #50 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 8:32 AM
This "you copied my skin" thing has gone way too far. According to some of you, any user creating anything that resembles, say the Hulk, should be sued by the original creator AND anyone using this artwork should be sent a cease and desist letter? As the "joeuser" article pointed out, some companies must realize that imitation will occur thus they choose to live with it I suppose.
As I said long ago, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Renato is an icon in the skinning world thus, there are going to be those who use his work as a foundation and even a model for their own. Hell, some of my own skins have ideas that came from his work. The line between "looks like" and "duplication" can sometimes be thin and hard to judge.
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning duplication regardless of whether the art was created from scratch or not. What I am saying is that it seems to be getting to a point where "Hey, my skin has a blue title bar and green text so you ripped me!" will be coming along soon. I hate to see this happen because new skinners will be afraid to try any technique that someone has already done and give up before they even start. Even I have found myself looking at my work trying to imagine if there are any similarities to someone else's work.
Words similar to "I have a great lawyer and I will sue you" in this thread and in a couple others from the past scare me. As if our society isn't already litigious enough.
I hope it works out as Jafo says (he is most certainly a powerful writer) and this all goes away but... when will it occur again? *sigh*
As I said long ago, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Renato is an icon in the skinning world thus, there are going to be those who use his work as a foundation and even a model for their own. Hell, some of my own skins have ideas that came from his work. The line between "looks like" and "duplication" can sometimes be thin and hard to judge.
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning duplication regardless of whether the art was created from scratch or not. What I am saying is that it seems to be getting to a point where "Hey, my skin has a blue title bar and green text so you ripped me!" will be coming along soon. I hate to see this happen because new skinners will be afraid to try any technique that someone has already done and give up before they even start. Even I have found myself looking at my work trying to imagine if there are any similarities to someone else's work.
Words similar to "I have a great lawyer and I will sue you" in this thread and in a couple others from the past scare me. As if our society isn't already litigious enough.
I hope it works out as Jafo says (he is most certainly a powerful writer) and this all goes away but... when will it occur again? *sigh*
Doomgaze
Reply #51 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 8:39 AM
Or greedy for that matter.
ahem.
Reply #51 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 8:39 AM
| Words similar to "I have a great lawyer and I will sue you" in this thread and in a couple others from the past scare me. As if our society isn't already litigious enough. |
Or greedy for that matter.
ahem.
grayhaze
Reply #52 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 1:23 PM
Reply #52 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 1:23 PM
I know it sounds a bit condescending to say it DaWebMassa, but you can't really judge until you've had one of your own designs ripped. This whole 'flattery' nonsense fades very quickly when you've spent months on a design only to find someone else stealing it in an afternoon and making a profit from it without even a nod in your direction.
As for the talk of lawyers and litigation, it's a natural step to take when there are those who take advantage of the talent of others for their own personal gain. When the design being stolen is being sold commercially, it's only right that some form of compensation should be sought for loss of earnings.
As I say, it's very difficult to understand the high emotions involved in something like this until you've experienced it for yourself. I've always taken a zero-tolerance approach to those who try to steal my work, and I don't intend to change. I've certainly made enemies by being such a 'hard ass', but at the same time the number of people who think it's a good idea to take my designs rather than use their own creativity have decreased steadily. In fact, my last skin was the first to escape the rippers entirely, despite it receiving the best response from the public so far out of any of my work.
As for the talk of lawyers and litigation, it's a natural step to take when there are those who take advantage of the talent of others for their own personal gain. When the design being stolen is being sold commercially, it's only right that some form of compensation should be sought for loss of earnings.
As I say, it's very difficult to understand the high emotions involved in something like this until you've experienced it for yourself. I've always taken a zero-tolerance approach to those who try to steal my work, and I don't intend to change. I've certainly made enemies by being such a 'hard ass', but at the same time the number of people who think it's a good idea to take my designs rather than use their own creativity have decreased steadily. In fact, my last skin was the first to escape the rippers entirely, despite it receiving the best response from the public so far out of any of my work.
Tech-Cat
Reply #53 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 2:58 PM
Reply #53 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 2:58 PM
I'm not a big fan of lawyers so I say the use of lawyers should be the very last resort. Both parties should seek to come to an understanding and a solution to the problem without the courts getting involved. I am sick and tired of all the witch hunts going on lately.
grayhaze
Reply #54 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 3:23 PM
Reply #54 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 3:23 PM
The term 'witch hunt' implies that there are no true guilty parties and it's all just paranoia leading to unfair treatment of individuals. If things like this help to spread the word about the protection of artists' legal rights then on the whole I think it's all worthwhile. There are bound to be a few cases of mistaken identity, but in cases as clear-cut as this one I don't think anyone can honestly say that the offending designer doesn't deserve some form of punishment, be that a slap on the wrist or a fine.
DaWebMassa
Reply #55 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 5:46 PM
Reply #55 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 5:46 PM
gray, I could care less about condescending remarks. I do my best on my own work and that's all I can do. AND, fyi, I have had two of my works "ripped" in my history. One I managed to handle quite eloquently and the other, well, let's just say it came down to getting nasty. However, not once did I threaten to sue someone.
I just think that in this community those words should be uttered on the side, not in public. Kinda takes a lot of the fun out of things. Anyway, I concur with Tech Cat... using the term loosely, "witch hunts" do seem to be on the rise lately which is quite discouraging, especially for anyone new to this.
I just think that in this community those words should be uttered on the side, not in public. Kinda takes a lot of the fun out of things. Anyway, I concur with Tech Cat... using the term loosely, "witch hunts" do seem to be on the rise lately which is quite discouraging, especially for anyone new to this.
IPlural
Reply #56 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:15 PM
This is not a issue of being inspired by, it is an admission of directly recreating a commercially distributed product and then turning around and making it a part of their own product.
This is not any different that someone taking taking a Commercial Program, decompiling-compiling it typing out the exact same source code and recompiling it, then selling it under a different name.
It is NOT a rip, it is not ripping a freely released skin/theme, it is theft of a commercial product.
This is theft any way you wrap it up and present it.
Reply #56 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:15 PM
| Their response was essentially "Sure, we took the idea from Abracadabra but we drew it ourselves in Photoshop..." |
This is not a issue of being inspired by, it is an admission of directly recreating a commercially distributed product and then turning around and making it a part of their own product.
This is not any different that someone taking taking a Commercial Program, decompiling-compiling it typing out the exact same source code and recompiling it, then selling it under a different name.
It is NOT a rip, it is not ripping a freely released skin/theme, it is theft of a commercial product.
This is theft any way you wrap it up and present it.
Jafo
Reply #57 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:46 PM
Reply #57 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:46 PM
This specific incidence has/is being resolved amicably, and to the mutual benefit of all concerned.
When conducting 'written communication' in order to resolve a difference of opinion, words are chocen carefully to impart an understanding, and are not necessarily a 'litigious threat', but a clarification of 'cause and effect'.
Anyway..the guys at PhaseOut are currently in dialogue, and hoping to be a valued and accepted entry into the skinnable proggy/GUI/shell/skinning world...
My spelling has gone to the dogs....
DaWebMassa
Reply #59 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:58 PM
Reply #59 Tuesday, July 8, 2003 6:58 PM
Another smooth job by the amazing Super-Jafo!
Good work Jafo... never doubted your way with words.
*sigh* Peace can reign once again.
Good work Jafo... never doubted your way with words.
*sigh* Peace can reign once again.
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Reply #41 Sunday, July 6, 2003 1:43 PM