Phase Out web browser...
Wednesday, July 2, 2003 by joetheblow | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Has anyone tried to use thise browser that Frogboy posted in the news? Anybody try to skin it yet? (can't download it myself because my computer doesn't have an internet connection anymore)
The site is:
http://www.phaseout.net/
So what do you think?
The site is:
http://www.phaseout.net/
So what do you think?
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IPlural
Reply #22 Saturday, July 5, 2003 8:59 AM
Without a doubt, sad some attempt or actually do such things, actually it is down right criminal and should eat at them until they make things right. Even if that mean doing their own graphics work or actually paying someone for the GUI design....
Reply #22 Saturday, July 5, 2003 8:59 AM
| #18 by Admin Frogboy - 7/4/2003 7:24:17 PM I took the news link down. They seem to have the attitude that it was okay to steal Treetog's skin concept and use it without permission. So I cannot recommend this program or the company that makes it. |
Without a doubt, sad some attempt or actually do such things, actually it is down right criminal and should eat at them until they make things right. Even if that mean doing their own graphics work or actually paying someone for the GUI design....
joetheblow
Reply #23 Saturday, July 5, 2003 9:06 AM
Reply #23 Saturday, July 5, 2003 9:06 AM
Noooo!! Don't ban me from the site! I thought it was ok to steal stuff as long as its being distrubuted for free? I am only indirectly making profits...
pjpowell
Reply #24 Saturday, July 5, 2003 2:35 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, July 5, 2003 2:35 PM
The thing is that they do have other skins available for it. It's not like they would have to make a new one in order to drop treetog's one. They could just switch the default to something else. Having said that the one based on treetog's work is the best looking in my opinion. I really hope they can work something out.
Frogboy
Reply #25 Saturday, July 5, 2003 5:44 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, July 5, 2003 5:44 PM
Their response was essentially "Sure, we took the idea from Abracadabra but we drew it ourselves in Photoshop..."
I suspect if they had done Aqua and given that reason to Apple that Apple would be unimpressed. It is a pity because it is a neat app but they'll never get the support of skin authors if they're going to treat them like dirt.
Tech-Cat
Reply #26 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:05 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:05 PM
Wincustomize's libary does have a set of Mac OS X icons that were drawn up from scratch rather than ripped. Should these icons be removed from the library since the idea came from actual OS X icons?
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=2&SkinID=1005
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=2&SkinID=1005
Frogboy
Reply #27 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:23 PM
Reply #27 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:23 PM
read this:
https://www.joeuser.com/Articles/TheSlipperySlopeofIntelle.html
IPlural
Reply #28 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:33 PM
Reply #28 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:33 PM
Yep, they made a choice to STEAL it, freaking thief's. treetog might want to contact Their commercial customers and demand payment and when they point the finger back to the Thief, suggest they do something about it or get tied up in a legal battle over the copyright of the art work with all the negatives that come from it?
kona0197
Reply #29 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:42 PM
it is funny that that was brought up because I feel the same way about Adam's LCARS work... It is a rip of work from Star Trek is it not?
Reply #29 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:42 PM
| Wincustomize's libary does have a set of Mac OS X icons that were drawn up from scratch rather than ripped. Should these icons be removed from the library since the idea came from actual OS X icons? |
it is funny that that was brought up because I feel the same way about Adam's LCARS work... It is a rip of work from Star Trek is it not?
Tech-Cat
Reply #31 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:45 PM
Reply #31 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:45 PM
After looking at screen shots of PhaseOut, the difference I see between PhaseOut's default skin and the OS X icons is that PhaseOut's default skin does very much have that Abracadabra look and feel, while the OS X icons found on Wincustomize are not as nice looking as real OS X icons. Does this mean that it is okay to steal an idea or visual style if the implementation is done poorly?
I am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch.
[Message Edited]
I am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch.
[Message Edited]
kona0197
Reply #32 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:47 PM
so am I
Reply #32 Saturday, July 5, 2003 6:47 PM
| am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch. |
so am I
Frogboy
Reply #33 Saturday, July 5, 2003 8:49 PM
Reply #33 Saturday, July 5, 2003 8:49 PM
Kona if you don't know the difference between LCARS the concept and a specific skin then you should really just be quiet.
paxx
Reply #35 Sunday, July 6, 2003 4:58 AM
Reply #35 Sunday, July 6, 2003 4:58 AM
kona, just to give you a clue about the difference:
Please show me where I can download or purchase the LCARS operating system.
Please show me where I can download or purchase the LCARS operating system.
grayhaze
Reply #36 Sunday, July 6, 2003 5:38 AM
The line comes when the 'similar' image is a direct attempt to make a close or exact duplicate of another person's work. When something is done 'in the style of' something else, as with the OSX icons, a claim of theft doesn't hold too much weight as it could be argued that the style is something rather general, and it's not possible to copyright an artistic technique.
In the case of the PhaseOut skin, they have intentionally tried to replicate the exact look and feel of the Abracadabra skin and pass it off as their own design. Even if they haven't used any images from the original skin, they have still created something which would be mistaken by the original paying customers of the WindowBlinds skin as an endorsed 'port'. If this case were to get to court, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I'd personally like to see an example made of them.
Reply #36 Sunday, July 6, 2003 5:38 AM
| I am just trying to understand where the line is between stealing and not stealing when it comes to drawing up a similar image from scratch. |
The line comes when the 'similar' image is a direct attempt to make a close or exact duplicate of another person's work. When something is done 'in the style of' something else, as with the OSX icons, a claim of theft doesn't hold too much weight as it could be argued that the style is something rather general, and it's not possible to copyright an artistic technique.
In the case of the PhaseOut skin, they have intentionally tried to replicate the exact look and feel of the Abracadabra skin and pass it off as their own design. Even if they haven't used any images from the original skin, they have still created something which would be mistaken by the original paying customers of the WindowBlinds skin as an endorsed 'port'. If this case were to get to court, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I'd personally like to see an example made of them.
IPlural
Reply #37 Sunday, July 6, 2003 10:01 AM
Reply #37 Sunday, July 6, 2003 10:01 AM
same here grayhaze, treetog should have his due...
Why I mentioned the commercial customers, send a letter(email?) to the creator of PhaseOut program, which they will balk at as they have done, but also another one indicating that anyone making use of it with that Copyrighted property which is commercially sold (Pixtudio, WinC and Stardock should (TM) things also) as being considered a separate plaintiff for theft, pirating.
PhaseOut's customers will flip, and if you want to get a reaction, make paying customer's flip and question the ethic's and trust of the one they are doing business with.
It would be something that all involved would never forget and always have niggling in the back of their minds when thinking of , or dealing with PhaseOut.
Word of mouth travels fast and far also in business.
Medical Manager (WebMD) is learning that more and more each convention and trade show.
Why I mentioned the commercial customers, send a letter(email?) to the creator of PhaseOut program, which they will balk at as they have done, but also another one indicating that anyone making use of it with that Copyrighted property which is commercially sold (Pixtudio, WinC and Stardock should (TM) things also) as being considered a separate plaintiff for theft, pirating.
PhaseOut's customers will flip, and if you want to get a reaction, make paying customer's flip and question the ethic's and trust of the one they are doing business with.
It would be something that all involved would never forget and always have niggling in the back of their minds when thinking of , or dealing with PhaseOut.
Word of mouth travels fast and far also in business.
Medical Manager (WebMD) is learning that more and more each convention and trade show.
Tech-Cat
Reply #38 Sunday, July 6, 2003 12:12 PM
Reply #38 Sunday, July 6, 2003 12:12 PM
I hope you are not suggesting actually threatening to sue commercial users that may not be aware of the threft. I think sending them a notice of what PhaseOut has done would be enough. They should then take proper action to stop using PhaseOut's product and demand a refund from PhaseOut.
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IPlural
Reply #39 Sunday, July 6, 2003 12:59 PM
Reply #39 Sunday, July 6, 2003 12:59 PM
That would be up to whom ever was dealing with the issue, but yes, I would send a cease and desist request with the indication of not doing so would be in fact an admission to accepting the illegal use, at which point they also become a thief.
Purchasing stolen property is a crime, doing so out of ignorance to the fact that it is stolen lends to a benefit of doubt being applied. But once they know and continue to do so (make use of it) that benefit is gone, period.
Purchasing stolen property is a crime, doing so out of ignorance to the fact that it is stolen lends to a benefit of doubt being applied. But once they know and continue to do so (make use of it) that benefit is gone, period.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #40 Sunday, July 6, 2003 1:05 PM
Reply #40 Sunday, July 6, 2003 1:05 PM
Seriously if they were selling this to third parties treetog, i can put you in touch with my attorney who specializes in Patents and Intellectual Property. I'm pretty sure you have a solid case for copyright infringement and you're most likely due monetary damages. Let me know.
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Reply #21 Saturday, July 5, 2003 8:56 AM
I agree. I thought it was a great idea and if they could fix a few problems. Even the RAM usage would be tolerable.
I have a question though:
What did youy send them Jafo? (or treetog, Frogboy) It would seem logical to me that they would not want to alienate the very community that they need to skin the program, provide support and praises.
Did you guys point out how (if they plan on making money) that this could effect their profit? If they are doing it for free, then did you point out how they are hurting thier own populatity from the start of thier program and those who wish to skin it and are really good at it might think twice about doing it?
Did you also point out that I plan to take thier idea and programing code, improve on it, post it, and try to earn a revenue from thier work? (Maybe using some of thier skins as well, who knows)
I'll call it The Browser. Did you point out to them I was changing the name of it to that? Its mine you know. I got it off the net. I worked hard looking for an idea for my new product. Since they have it on the net, anyone can have it. (I guess)
Mention that I changed the name and some code so they can not say its is thiers and its ok as long as I am not selling it directly (the browser is free but the marketing and design is not.. that's how I will make all that money)