In our name
Tuesday, January 21, 2003 by Griffinme | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
http://inourname.insignificantthoughts.com/
As a reply to those experts in Hollywood's petition, "Not in our name."
As a reply to those experts in Hollywood's petition, "Not in our name."
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The Rated PG
Reply #3 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:50 AM
Reply #3 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:50 AM
making skins are great, but thanks for posting the link.
IPlural
Reply #4 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:14 PM
Reply #4 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:14 PM
* sigh *
You know, the words all start to resound in the teachers voice from Peanuts now when I read this kind of jingo jango junk.
But sides of the issue are tired...
* sigh *
You know, the words all start to resound in the teachers voice from Peanuts now when I read this kind of jingo jango junk.
But sides of the issue are tired...
* sigh *
paxx
Reply #6 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:31 PM
Reply #6 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:31 PM
All right then. Only fair to supply the link to the other side then: http://www.notinourname.net
IPlural
Reply #9 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 PM
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/sonar.html
Flahs animations, this person is very good...
Flahs animations, this person is very good...
IPlural
Reply #10 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 PM
This is the one to watch!
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/corrections.html
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/corrections.html
Frogboy
Reply #15 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:57 AM
Reply #15 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:57 AM
Funny but pretty typical leftist drivel I must say. Sometimes I think "anti-war" people are just more interested in showing how anti-American they can be. Or at best, they like to rant to other people who already agree with them since they seem so inept at actually convincing anyone who disagrees with them of the validity of their position.
I suppose I could assign some graphics designers to make a flash cartoon where peace demonstrators are actually shown to be guards at a concentration camp to illustrate the net effect that they would have if they were successful.
Or maybe show them as grim reapers over millions of dead soldiers and civilians due to inaction on Iraq until the day he got nuclear weapons and began using them and supplying them to terrorists.
Or at least, that would be just as valid as flash cartoons using the crass moral equivalenece iPlural just showed. What's next? a flash cartoon showing the 9/11 hijacking to be something that Americans really deserved?
Don't kid yourself, the anti-war position is not the moral high ground. Or at the very least you are not going to convince those woh disagree with you that it is.
I suppose I could assign some graphics designers to make a flash cartoon where peace demonstrators are actually shown to be guards at a concentration camp to illustrate the net effect that they would have if they were successful.
Or maybe show them as grim reapers over millions of dead soldiers and civilians due to inaction on Iraq until the day he got nuclear weapons and began using them and supplying them to terrorists.
Or at least, that would be just as valid as flash cartoons using the crass moral equivalenece iPlural just showed. What's next? a flash cartoon showing the 9/11 hijacking to be something that Americans really deserved?
Don't kid yourself, the anti-war position is not the moral high ground. Or at the very least you are not going to convince those woh disagree with you that it is.
paxx
Reply #16 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:23 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:23 AM
Come on, even the US is divided on the issue.
It seems that, although a small majority of Americans are generally in favour of attacking Iraq, most are opposed to attacking Iraq without first getting an OK from the UN.
Peace demonstrations throughout the World - AND IN THE US - are the biggest ones since the Vietnam war.
All these American people are Anti-American, I'm sure.
Please don't serve us that Bush crap "You're either with us or against us". It is POSSIBLE to disagree and not yet be anti-American.
Oh, and just in case you're tempted to link 9/11 to Saddam Hussein, I'd like you to read this article too: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml
It seems that, although a small majority of Americans are generally in favour of attacking Iraq, most are opposed to attacking Iraq without first getting an OK from the UN.
Peace demonstrations throughout the World - AND IN THE US - are the biggest ones since the Vietnam war.
All these American people are Anti-American, I'm sure.
Please don't serve us that Bush crap "You're either with us or against us". It is POSSIBLE to disagree and not yet be anti-American.
Oh, and just in case you're tempted to link 9/11 to Saddam Hussein, I'd like you to read this article too: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml
Frogboy
Reply #17 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:33 AM
Reply #17 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:33 AM
Let's try to avoid strawman arguments.
1) 67% of Americans are in favor of military action even WITHOUT the UN explicitly giving its approval. Only 20% are opposed (Gallup poll from Monday). The rest are undecided.
2) I did not claim that anyone who is against the war is Anti-American. Why I have said is that the most vocal anti-war people seem to be anti-American first. The protests, for instance, were organized by ANSWER, the advocacy group of the political party "Worker's World" which believes in the overthrow of the US constitution in favor of radical socialism. And is extremely anti-American. Additionally, the flash cartoons shown are more about how bad the United States allegedly is rather than arguing that somehow Saddam isn't a monster. So don't serve that over generalization crap.
3) I do not believe Saddam was connected to 9/11 nor did I imply. I've written many pages on this issue and have never once implied that I thought he was involved.
But since we're throwing articles around, here are some for you:
http://bargarz.blogspot.com/2003_01_19_bargarz_archive.html#87773098
Goes over just how Iraq has been violating the UN resolutions.
1) 67% of Americans are in favor of military action even WITHOUT the UN explicitly giving its approval. Only 20% are opposed (Gallup poll from Monday). The rest are undecided.
2) I did not claim that anyone who is against the war is Anti-American. Why I have said is that the most vocal anti-war people seem to be anti-American first. The protests, for instance, were organized by ANSWER, the advocacy group of the political party "Worker's World" which believes in the overthrow of the US constitution in favor of radical socialism. And is extremely anti-American. Additionally, the flash cartoons shown are more about how bad the United States allegedly is rather than arguing that somehow Saddam isn't a monster. So don't serve that over generalization crap.
3) I do not believe Saddam was connected to 9/11 nor did I imply. I've written many pages on this issue and have never once implied that I thought he was involved.
But since we're throwing articles around, here are some for you:
http://bargarz.blogspot.com/2003_01_19_bargarz_archive.html#87773098
Goes over just how Iraq has been violating the UN resolutions.
Frogboy
Reply #18 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:52 AM
Reply #18 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:52 AM
Let me add to this:
What really pisses me off isn't that someone is for or against military action.
What pisses me off are people who trivialize other people's positions. And I see this much more on the "anti war" crowd.
I'll write some 3 or 4 page post on the issue only to have some "anti war" guy come and dismiss what has been written with a 1 line quip. Or see protesters who try to paint those who disagree with them as being stupid or war mongering or immoral or greedy or worse. They never seem to want to address the actual concerns and issues. Issues that aren't the result of war mongering or ignorance but rather careful consideration.
That's why flash cartoons like the one iPlural showed are so typical. Griffinme makes a post with a link to a site that argues FOR what he believes in.
iPlural, by contrast, shows up with links to flash cartoons that patronize and ridicule those they don't agree with.
It never seems to be "we're against the war because of valid reasons A, B, and C." it's often "we're agains the war because we think the people for war are a bunch of stupid moronic evil greedy war mongers who just want oil!"
I find that highly offensive. That's why I find such flash cartoons obnoxious. And also highly hypocritical because these guys are the first ones to scream in the name of political correctness if those they disagree with resort to similar tactics.
If you're against military action, then make your case. Ridiculing those you disagree with is only going to harden opposition against you (and indeed, polls in the US show American support for military action INCREASED after the so-called big protests -- which weren't that big btw here in the US -- they were smaller than the pro-life / pro-choice rallies this week they just dont' get as much coverage).
What really pisses me off isn't that someone is for or against military action.
What pisses me off are people who trivialize other people's positions. And I see this much more on the "anti war" crowd.
I'll write some 3 or 4 page post on the issue only to have some "anti war" guy come and dismiss what has been written with a 1 line quip. Or see protesters who try to paint those who disagree with them as being stupid or war mongering or immoral or greedy or worse. They never seem to want to address the actual concerns and issues. Issues that aren't the result of war mongering or ignorance but rather careful consideration.
That's why flash cartoons like the one iPlural showed are so typical. Griffinme makes a post with a link to a site that argues FOR what he believes in.
iPlural, by contrast, shows up with links to flash cartoons that patronize and ridicule those they don't agree with.
It never seems to be "we're against the war because of valid reasons A, B, and C." it's often "we're agains the war because we think the people for war are a bunch of stupid moronic evil greedy war mongers who just want oil!"
I find that highly offensive. That's why I find such flash cartoons obnoxious. And also highly hypocritical because these guys are the first ones to scream in the name of political correctness if those they disagree with resort to similar tactics.
If you're against military action, then make your case. Ridiculing those you disagree with is only going to harden opposition against you (and indeed, polls in the US show American support for military action INCREASED after the so-called big protests -- which weren't that big btw here in the US -- they were smaller than the pro-life / pro-choice rallies this week they just dont' get as much coverage).
kthxbye
Reply #19 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:04 PM
Reply #19 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:04 PM
Frogboy! I've been reading here and other places long enough to know you're a reasonably intelligent guy - therefor you should know that polls are utter BS! In fact, I can quote from today's issue of the post (er, the Washington Post,):
"On Iraq, which is likely to dominate political discourse in the coming months, the president has slipped but still has relatively high support. Fifty-seven percent of Americans back military action, down from 62 percent in mid-December; similarly, 50 percent of Americans said they approved of Bush's handling of the Iraqi situation, down from 58 percent a month ago."
Oh yeah - and the anti-war demonstrations are still numbering in tens of thousands of people at a time out here.
"On Iraq, which is likely to dominate political discourse in the coming months, the president has slipped but still has relatively high support. Fifty-seven percent of Americans back military action, down from 62 percent in mid-December; similarly, 50 percent of Americans said they approved of Bush's handling of the Iraqi situation, down from 58 percent a month ago."
Oh yeah - and the anti-war demonstrations are still numbering in tens of thousands of people at a time out here.
The Rated PG
Reply #20 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:08 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:08 PM
5 hours after 9-11 who did you think about might have done it? The Swedish, or maybe the Jamacians? Or maybe it was People living on Reindeer Island in Manitoba. After 5 hours not a whole lot to work with and he was just making plans. repeat plans. I made plans to go grocery shopping yesterday, but I never carried it out.
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Reply #1 Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:35 AM
Please lets drop this topic and make some skins.