Snipers in DC
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 by ToeJo | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I live 45 minutes outside of DC. This sniper stuff really ticks me off. I've never seen anything like this. Anyone think it's al-Qaida? I don't know, but I hope they catch the SOB soon!
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Asimo
Reply #2 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:26 AM
Reply #2 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:26 AM
Could very well be terrorist related, however he (they?) did take the weekend off, which to me indicates someone with a family or family-like responsibilities on the weekends. Kill during the work week, spend the weekend with the kids... twisted. Also, this vehicle sounds like a work related vehicle, or something that they have regular access to that is too obvious for others around them to really notice. Perhaps it's one of several "rental" vehicles that he (they) has access to with which to run errands or deliveries, like laundry service or home furniture delivery. With the random times of these crimes it also makes me think that this person has access to a vehicle(s) where his employer may not notice when it's there, like 24 hour access.
However, if this is not an act of terrorism, they sure are getting some good ideas of how successful random violence can be once the mass media gets ahold of it.
Sad... My heart goes out to all of those families affected by these senseless acts.
However, if this is not an act of terrorism, they sure are getting some good ideas of how successful random violence can be once the mass media gets ahold of it.
Sad... My heart goes out to all of those families affected by these senseless acts.
bakerstreet
Reply #3 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:37 AM
Reply #3 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:37 AM
I doubt it is al qaida. If it were the standard 7.62 AK round that terrorists are usually trained with, I would be more apt to wonder. Last time I bought ammunition 5.56mm was much less available than 7.62 rounds, mainly because of all the chinese surplus SKS rifles and ammunition that flooded the US a few years back. I would assume whoever is using this caliber is doing so both because of its ballistics, moderate supressability, and the horrible damage it causes. I have fired hundreds of rounds of 5.56mm ammunition and the residual ringing in my ears leads me to believe he is suppressing it in some way. The report should be much more prominant to witnesses than it seems to be. None of that looks like your average, box-cutter-wielding maniac.
At this point it could be anyone, but it would be a very new method for terrorists. It would be very risky, cause small numbers of casualties, and when it is over the shooter will be alive for questioning. Terrorists like their minions to be in little peices... harder to coerce testimony that way.
It would be a sad day for islamic americans if this were to be the case. We have a strong history of doing this sort of thing to ourselves, though, and considering where it is happening and the type of people they are picking, I would lean toward an American terrorist. We of the suburban middle class aren't well loved by the radical, paranoid far-right.
At this point it could be anyone, but it would be a very new method for terrorists. It would be very risky, cause small numbers of casualties, and when it is over the shooter will be alive for questioning. Terrorists like their minions to be in little peices... harder to coerce testimony that way.
It would be a sad day for islamic americans if this were to be the case. We have a strong history of doing this sort of thing to ourselves, though, and considering where it is happening and the type of people they are picking, I would lean toward an American terrorist. We of the suburban middle class aren't well loved by the radical, paranoid far-right.
Jafo
Reply #4 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:27 PM
Reply #4 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:27 PM
Just a simple by-product of liberal gun ownership.
That good 'ol 'right' to bear arms is bound to result in able marksmen psychos also owning them, as do middle class housewives with a 22 in their purse.
Every single gun that is ever surrendered to the authorities for destruction is exactly one less potential engine of indiscriminate, random murder.
Thank your Gun Lobby....but it's now too firmly entrenched into your psychy to ever be reversed.
That good 'ol 'right' to bear arms is bound to result in able marksmen psychos also owning them, as do middle class housewives with a 22 in their purse.
Every single gun that is ever surrendered to the authorities for destruction is exactly one less potential engine of indiscriminate, random murder.
Thank your Gun Lobby....but it's now too firmly entrenched into your psychy to ever be reversed.
goodmorphing
Reply #5 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:37 PM
Reply #5 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:37 PM
I was just coming here to wonder in this thread because I don't understand about another couple of issues. Press coverage seems to be feeding this guy; yet it is also used to ask for public awareness and assistance. What is the right balance? Also, they are considering asking for military help... yet they hesitate because it would set a dangerous precedent. Are they thinking about a slippery-slope to a military state or something? I think I am understanding a little why it might be bad, but I am kind of confused on that one. Why would it be so bad?
elvee
Reply #7 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:03 PM
Reply #7 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:03 PM
I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, and i have heard of people travelling over to my area, even Delaware to do their shopping and getting gas in fear of the Sniper.
Asimo
Reply #8 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:06 PM
Reply #8 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:06 PM
I’m not sure how much liberal gun ownership has to do with this instance. A guy shooting an intruder in his house or a co-worker that gets fired, goes home, gets his gun, and returns to work to exact his revenge is a by-product of liberal gun ownership. I suspect that this guy has a history with guns and may even currently be required to use one in his line of work or has used one in his past during service. Either way I suspect that this guy would have passed any requirement laid in place to get a gun like this. I highly doubt that this is just some random gun owner killing these people. He’s fired one shot, and hit, every time. That is the work of a professionally trained shooter. Maybe he was in the military? Maybe he did something similar for a living (again, military) and something inside him finally snapped.
goodmorphing
Reply #9 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:12 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:12 PM
It wasn't me having military help in mind.... I was listening to a debate on the news that wasn't detailed enough for me.. I couldn't see the points of the debate. It didn't sound like a dangerous idea to me, but that was probably because there was a lot I don't get. 
I just heard now they are using a military intelligence plane.
I just heard now they are using a military intelligence plane.
bakerstreet
Reply #10 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:18 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:18 PM
Jafo: i think that when all is said and done, we'll find that the weapon he is using is a bolt-action hunting or target rifle. The only spent case they have found, as I understand it, is the one that was with the Tarot card. That would classify as a 'non-self-loading' hunting firearm. That type rifle is legal in many countries with harsh gun laws (inclduing Australia, if I understand your laws), and would be one of the last ones to go if our nation adopted stronger laws. All those sold here are registered, and have been for a long time. This is something I refuse to debate here, so I'll just thank you for the input 
goodmorphing: The press can keep people aware of things without disrupting the investigation. Mentioning the leaked Tarot card didn't help protect anyone, it was just a sensational detail and I hope they find the guy that leaked it and put him/her in jail. The Tarot card has been the only irresponsible thing I have considered out of line.
As to the military, I am under the impression that there are stern laws here as to how the military can operate inside the US, much like the laws that prevent the CIA from spying domestically. Maybe someone needs to declare a state of emergency or something. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to overcome, unless their use in an investigation violates the suspect's rights in some way. No one would wanna see a revolving door trial after this.
If anyone knows more about the laws in question, pipe up, i'd be curious to hear.
goodmorphing: The press can keep people aware of things without disrupting the investigation. Mentioning the leaked Tarot card didn't help protect anyone, it was just a sensational detail and I hope they find the guy that leaked it and put him/her in jail. The Tarot card has been the only irresponsible thing I have considered out of line.
As to the military, I am under the impression that there are stern laws here as to how the military can operate inside the US, much like the laws that prevent the CIA from spying domestically. Maybe someone needs to declare a state of emergency or something. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to overcome, unless their use in an investigation violates the suspect's rights in some way. No one would wanna see a revolving door trial after this.
If anyone knows more about the laws in question, pipe up, i'd be curious to hear.
Bangkokboy
Reply #11 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:34 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:34 PM
Hmmm! 40 million handguns in Texas. And when I awoke this morning, my yard and my street were not strewn with corpses every 5 feet. Amazing!
Bangkokboy
Reply #13 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:37 PM
Reply #13 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:37 PM
My deepest condolences and thoughts to all of the families that have lost someone to this monster(s).
Not funny anymore!
Asimo
Reply #15 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:02 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:02 PM
Bangkokboy-
I find it ironic that D.C. has the most strict gun laws in all of the US (I believe) and this is going on there, so I get where you were going with the first post… heh… This guy was gonna do this regardless of any gun law that was in place.
I find it ironic that D.C. has the most strict gun laws in all of the US (I believe) and this is going on there, so I get where you were going with the first post… heh… This guy was gonna do this regardless of any gun law that was in place.
brazil
Reply #16 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:08 PM
Reply #16 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:08 PM
There is a fantasic film on the subject called "It's the Rage".A very good and thought provoking movie.I think it would be a good idea to fly drones to gather info.Also I remember some technology that helped the LAPD locate where a gun was fired with amazing results,,I dunno but this has to stop,,at any cost I think.
sedmunds
Reply #17 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:10 PM
Reply #17 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:10 PM
In what counties have the shootings occurred? I have a seminar in Fairfax County, VA. in December - is that where we're talking about?
elvee
Reply #18 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:28 PM
Reply #18 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:28 PM
Fairfax is one of the counties that surround D.C. On the west side.
Jafo
Reply #19 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:05 PM
Reply #19 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:05 PM
At the ripe old age of 16, and with a bolt-action 7.62mm target rifle [open sight, of course, not telescopic] I placed 11 successive shots through a blob the size of a chest from a third of a mile away...first sighting shot would have been a shoulder...
32 years ago, I had the 'ability' to do what this guy is doing....doesn't make it any less or more wrong/right/whatever....just means I know how 'easy' it is, and how reliant society is on the moral responsibility of its subjects.
It's not a difficult equasion.....IF there were no guns there would be no shootings.
Pure, clear, irrefutable logic.
Think about it....
32 years ago, I had the 'ability' to do what this guy is doing....doesn't make it any less or more wrong/right/whatever....just means I know how 'easy' it is, and how reliant society is on the moral responsibility of its subjects.
It's not a difficult equasion.....IF there were no guns there would be no shootings.
Pure, clear, irrefutable logic.
Think about it....
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Reply #1 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:17 AM