Re Iraq Poll
Tuesday, October 8, 2002 by Fuzzy Logic | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I voted for option 3. However, Saddam should have been sorted out during the gulf war. We had the chance to chop his ass into tiny pieces right then. Problem sorted. Because that route wasn't taken then we have the situation now whereby either action or inaction is unacceptable. Plus the additional suffering caused to the people of Iraq by Saddam over the intervening period since the gulf war and the almost immediate butchering of the Kurds. We really left them with their flies open.
All too late and all too frantic. This is not going to end well for anyone.
All too late and all too frantic. This is not going to end well for anyone.
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Lord Vimal
Reply #122 Saturday, October 12, 2002 11:53 PM
Reply #122 Saturday, October 12, 2002 11:53 PM
PHSYCHOLOGY - if i am correct !
Hey first of all i would like to tell you that i am living in...KUWAIT!! So close. There is war threat here. Maybe out by December
Hey first of all i would like to tell you that i am living in...KUWAIT!! So close. There is war threat here. Maybe out by December
Griffinme
Reply #123 Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:39 AM
Reply #123 Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:39 AM
I was watching a show about alternative sources of energy and global warming. It was made by tree huggers, but very interesting. They said that using the most efficient solar panels currently produced to supply the world with enough power to satisfy current energy needs about 90% of usuable land would need to be covered with solar panels. Currently only 5% of the earth's usable land is covered with farms. Same story for wind and organic(crops grown to produce energy). They showed the most efficient solar farm created. It was near a coal burning plant. This large farm created, on its best day, 5% the power the coal plant produced. There is an amazing amount of energy in a fossil fuels.
I really think we should be looking at nuclear power.
I really think we should be looking at nuclear power.
wombat_1
Reply #124 Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:23 AM
Reply #124 Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:23 AM
As a result of the bombings in Bali over the weekend can we assume that the Compere of the United States will now lobby for an attack on Indonesia?
Probably not when one reads the reports .... most casualties appear to be non American!
New conspiricy theory, the Washington Sniper is really Bin Laden !
Probably not when one reads the reports .... most casualties appear to be non American!
New conspiricy theory, the Washington Sniper is really Bin Laden !
joetheblow
Reply #125 Sunday, October 13, 2002 3:59 AM
Reply #125 Sunday, October 13, 2002 3:59 AM
I thought about the sniper.... It is a shame that it was the first thing I thought of. I have been thinking of the other non conventianal ways to just kill anybody and allot of it would just be like regular crime... except it would be a terroist claiming responibility.
Baby snichers are part of Bin Ladens group too??? Who knows
Baby snichers are part of Bin Ladens group too??? Who knows
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #126 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:16 AM
Reply #126 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:16 AM
Bin Laden is also responsible for blowing away the ozone layer and leaving us with an inch of topsoil... 
Jafo
Reply #127 Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:15 AM
Reply #127 Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:15 AM
'Psychology'.... 
Wombat...it looks like the majority of the dead in Bali will be Aussies...
Wombat...it looks like the majority of the dead in Bali will be Aussies...
bakerstreet
Reply #129 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:10 PM
Reply #129 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:10 PM
Here's an update on how this conversation, and the state of the world, has effected me.
I like food, and I spend a good amount of money on small amounts of stuff. I passed over two bottles of wine and some cheese yesterday, because of where it was produced and the anti-American sentiment there. I bought domestic instead. I would save a lot of money if I forced myself to do that with all my luxury goods. I hadn't read much about Italy lately, so I stuck with my prosciutto di parma and coppa.
I won't go visit Paris now, on principle, ever. I have no urge to go to Oktoberfest, though I had planned to in the next couple of years. I didn't buy Warsteiner at the store, either. I want to be a 'small country', too; they have it made. The US could pretend to be a small, Europeanesque country, and yet actually be able to protect itself when it is threatened. The best of both worlds, No?
Why allow foreign nationals to work or learn here in America? So many intellectuals from Europe, the Middle East, Far East, and Central Asia scream that we are evil, and then they bitch and whine when we cut back work or student visas. Why is their education any of our business, why should we freely admit people from countries that do not appreciate other people's freedom?
Last week, if LeCrayon's country was overrun, I would have supported a full response from America, no questions asked. Now? I would have to ponder whether it was any of our business. I mean, have the aggressors attacked us? What criterea is better than that? Is the suffering of a population enough of an excuse to make war on someone who hasn't attacked you? It would be cheaper for the US to stand aside, cry and paint flowers...
So many of my countrymen might still be alive had we simply protected *ourselves* for the last hundred years...
Recently I have heard this same, sad, (and admittedly short-sighted), rant from countless other Americans, as well. The world is creating a more protectionist, isolationist American. It takes a while before our, the common folk's, feelings trickle into US foreign policy, but if it lasts, it will get there sooner or later. I hope the world likes what they get.
Anyway, you win, I, an American, no longer want war in Iraq, but I don'
I like food, and I spend a good amount of money on small amounts of stuff. I passed over two bottles of wine and some cheese yesterday, because of where it was produced and the anti-American sentiment there. I bought domestic instead. I would save a lot of money if I forced myself to do that with all my luxury goods. I hadn't read much about Italy lately, so I stuck with my prosciutto di parma and coppa.
I won't go visit Paris now, on principle, ever. I have no urge to go to Oktoberfest, though I had planned to in the next couple of years. I didn't buy Warsteiner at the store, either. I want to be a 'small country', too; they have it made. The US could pretend to be a small, Europeanesque country, and yet actually be able to protect itself when it is threatened. The best of both worlds, No?
Why allow foreign nationals to work or learn here in America? So many intellectuals from Europe, the Middle East, Far East, and Central Asia scream that we are evil, and then they bitch and whine when we cut back work or student visas. Why is their education any of our business, why should we freely admit people from countries that do not appreciate other people's freedom?
Last week, if LeCrayon's country was overrun, I would have supported a full response from America, no questions asked. Now? I would have to ponder whether it was any of our business. I mean, have the aggressors attacked us? What criterea is better than that? Is the suffering of a population enough of an excuse to make war on someone who hasn't attacked you? It would be cheaper for the US to stand aside, cry and paint flowers...
So many of my countrymen might still be alive had we simply protected *ourselves* for the last hundred years...
Recently I have heard this same, sad, (and admittedly short-sighted), rant from countless other Americans, as well. The world is creating a more protectionist, isolationist American. It takes a while before our, the common folk's, feelings trickle into US foreign policy, but if it lasts, it will get there sooner or later. I hope the world likes what they get.
Anyway, you win, I, an American, no longer want war in Iraq, but I don'
bakerstreet
Reply #130 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:11 PM
Reply #130 Sunday, October 13, 2002 4:11 PM
I was cut off... con't
"but I don't want to waste my tax money containing him either. I want YOU to do it, and I really don't care if you are successful or not."
"but I don't want to waste my tax money containing him either. I want YOU to do it, and I really don't care if you are successful or not."
joetheblow
Reply #131 Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:44 PM
Reply #131 Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:44 PM
I like cheese. I like festivals. I want to be able to live and eat and party in peace without a threat of my life in the balance.
Some of those "people" who think America are "evil" usually come from places that can not express themselves and/or are lacking in many rights and education. Other people who think America is "evil" are those who do not have a clue as to what is really going on and the fact that any country can fall under the qualification of "evil" if it is powerhouse. Money and power don't reall corupt people, but it does magnify thier personallities. Thier decitions affect more people.
So since America is the "powerhouse" with the money, our polocies are magnified by the money and influence they have. Some policies are good and others a not. But since it effects so many, it becomes a very big deal. The funny thing is if it was another country, there would still be policies that would be good or bad.
So in the end, I want to be able to eat the cheese and I want and go to parties.
Some of those "people" who think America are "evil" usually come from places that can not express themselves and/or are lacking in many rights and education. Other people who think America is "evil" are those who do not have a clue as to what is really going on and the fact that any country can fall under the qualification of "evil" if it is powerhouse. Money and power don't reall corupt people, but it does magnify thier personallities. Thier decitions affect more people.
So since America is the "powerhouse" with the money, our polocies are magnified by the money and influence they have. Some policies are good and others a not. But since it effects so many, it becomes a very big deal. The funny thing is if it was another country, there would still be policies that would be good or bad.
So in the end, I want to be able to eat the cheese and I want and go to parties.
wombat_1
Reply #132 Monday, October 14, 2002 5:14 AM
Reply #132 Monday, October 14, 2002 5:14 AM
"I want to be able to eat the cheese and I want to go to parties" ......
Perhaps the way of the World in these times is more a case of 'you can't have your cheese and eat it too'.
As I write this the confirmed death toll in Bali is rising and another little country is staring economic ruin in the face.
Enjoy your cheese and partying.....some of us have real work to do.
Jafo, have to postpone catching up next weekend, Peter Cosgrove needs some of his staffers back. >
Perhaps the way of the World in these times is more a case of 'you can't have your cheese and eat it too'.
As I write this the confirmed death toll in Bali is rising and another little country is staring economic ruin in the face.
Enjoy your cheese and partying.....some of us have real work to do.
Jafo, have to postpone catching up next weekend, Peter Cosgrove needs some of his staffers back. >
Jafo
Reply #133 Monday, October 14, 2002 7:59 AM
Reply #133 Monday, October 14, 2002 7:59 AM
wombat....I'll wave to you from the S/F line then...
paxx
Reply #134 Monday, October 14, 2002 9:45 AM
Reply #134 Monday, October 14, 2002 9:45 AM
Bakerstreet, what kind of attitude is that?
If somebody doesn't agree with you, he's automatically your ennemy? If a country doesn't agree with the current US administration, that country is automatically anti-American? Wow!
What about US citizens who don't agree with Bush and his friends? Does that make him a traitor?
France is not anti-American. France, Germany and a whole lot of European countries actually love the American culture. American cinema, American music, American food, clothes, etc. Because they don't agree with America politically does not make them an ennemy of the nation. Sheeesh!
If somebody doesn't agree with you, he's automatically your ennemy? If a country doesn't agree with the current US administration, that country is automatically anti-American? Wow!
What about US citizens who don't agree with Bush and his friends? Does that make him a traitor?
France is not anti-American. France, Germany and a whole lot of European countries actually love the American culture. American cinema, American music, American food, clothes, etc. Because they don't agree with America politically does not make them an ennemy of the nation. Sheeesh!
tinkergaloot
Reply #135 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:39 AM
Reply #135 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:39 AM
For those who are relying heavily upon the press, both in the US and abroad, for information about the current world situation, it might be worth taking heed of the following quote:
Asked to give a toast before the prestigious New York Press Club, John Swinton, the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times, made this candid confession [it's worth noting that Swinton was called "The Dean of His Profession" by other newsmen, who admired him greatly]:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job.
If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper,before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell the country for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press. We are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Food for thought...
For an independent and liberal view, try this http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
Asked to give a toast before the prestigious New York Press Club, John Swinton, the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times, made this candid confession [it's worth noting that Swinton was called "The Dean of His Profession" by other newsmen, who admired him greatly]:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job.
If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper,before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell the country for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press. We are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Food for thought...
For an independent and liberal view, try this http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
Bangkokboy
Reply #136 Monday, October 14, 2002 12:48 PM
Reply #136 Monday, October 14, 2002 12:48 PM
Enjoy your cheese and partying.....some of us have real work to do.
Wombat - you've made many intelligent observations in these threads, but usually washed down with some nasty, snide little dig. Your opinions are almost always interesting. Your sarcasm isn't.
Wombat - you've made many intelligent observations in these threads, but usually washed down with some nasty, snide little dig. Your opinions are almost always interesting. Your sarcasm isn't.
bakerstreet
Reply #137 Monday, October 14, 2002 1:33 PM
Reply #137 Monday, October 14, 2002 1:33 PM
Paxx: As for what kind of attitude it is, it is a bad one. Forgive me, after years of listening to griping and whining about the America the Bully, America the destroyer of French (and however many other) Cultures, America the ruin of the third world; i am finally starting to feel the sting. I was born in 1970. It is all I have ever heard. My LANGUAGE is considered a destructive force in some nations... Man-on-the-street interviews anywhere in the world will get you opinions like the ones above, without having to try very hard.
My outrage at Iraq isn't based upon gas prices. I'm American, though, so I must really want a summer home in Baghdad and 1960's gas prices. What the world needs to understand is that no matter what they think of the American gevernment, attacking the goodwill of the American people, who genuinely care about aiding the world, is *foolish*. If you tell us, as a people, to butt-out, sooner or later we will.
I am tired of caring for a world who at best doesn't want my care, and at worst thinks my care is just a front for evil intent. I don't wish anyone any harm, I just think maybe we ought to give the world what it wants, a few decades of America keeping to itself.
Wombat was understandably upset, and he should have been. I have been sick over Bali, myself. Indonesia is a large, sovereign state of 200 million people, and has a very, very easygoing definition of 'terrorist'. HAD America done anything substantial to hamper terrorism there, the 'meddling' would have been seen as the cause of the attack. Some in the Australian government have blamed American policy on Iraq for provoking it already. I don't blame the Australian people for that, I know the difference. My prayers are for all the harmed families there, and those that are still waiting for news.
My outrage at Iraq isn't based upon gas prices. I'm American, though, so I must really want a summer home in Baghdad and 1960's gas prices. What the world needs to understand is that no matter what they think of the American gevernment, attacking the goodwill of the American people, who genuinely care about aiding the world, is *foolish*. If you tell us, as a people, to butt-out, sooner or later we will.
I am tired of caring for a world who at best doesn't want my care, and at worst thinks my care is just a front for evil intent. I don't wish anyone any harm, I just think maybe we ought to give the world what it wants, a few decades of America keeping to itself.
Wombat was understandably upset, and he should have been. I have been sick over Bali, myself. Indonesia is a large, sovereign state of 200 million people, and has a very, very easygoing definition of 'terrorist'. HAD America done anything substantial to hamper terrorism there, the 'meddling' would have been seen as the cause of the attack. Some in the Australian government have blamed American policy on Iraq for provoking it already. I don't blame the Australian people for that, I know the difference. My prayers are for all the harmed families there, and those that are still waiting for news.
Kinrik
Reply #138 Monday, October 14, 2002 1:36 PM
Reply #138 Monday, October 14, 2002 1:36 PM
howdy, I'm back...
frogboy, why don't you save your skinning community and delete this thread before people begin scorch-earthing this place of their works?
i'm off to comment on more artwork and skins...
frogboy, why don't you save your skinning community and delete this thread before people begin scorch-earthing this place of their works?
i'm off to comment on more artwork and skins...
Grog
Reply #139 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:23 PM
Reply #139 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:23 PM
One thing that seems to get forgotten in everything is that We Americans are the mutts of the world or as Bill Murry said in the movie Strips "We have been kicked out of every self respecting country in the world". We truly are the mutts of the world, EVERY nationality is represented and for the most part our differences are embraced. I'm sorry that we are a diverse mixture that accepts that people are different, I'm sorry that the residents of this country try to help their former country men, I'm sorry that we give the time of day to the rest of the world, I'm sorry that I have friends who are from different religions, I'm sorry that we ever broke free of England, I'm sorry that we aided Europe during and after world war two, I'm sorry that we are who we are, a nation of Mutts. And if you think that I'm SORRY about being any of the above, I’m NOT, I’m proud to be a damm MUTT. Sorry, but we Americans are British, French, Russian, German, Australian, Austrian, Swedish, Spanish, Mexican, Egyptian, Saudi, Iraqi, Brazilian, Kenyan, Finnish, Mexican, Philippino, Japanese, Chinese, Greek, Indian, Afghani, Canadian, South African, Chilean, Peruvian, Korean, Vietnamese, and ALL the rest that is what we are no more and no less. So when you look in the mirror and say we are so bad, wonder how many of your former country men are looking back at you. We have our faults, and our problems, but then again what country on the face of the globe does not.
Chris
/me
Chris
/me
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Reply #121 Saturday, October 12, 2002 11:52 PM
Hey first of all i would like to tell you that i am living in...KUWAIT!! So close. There is war threat here. Maybe out by December