Re Iraq Poll
Tuesday, October 8, 2002 by Fuzzy Logic | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I voted for option 3. However, Saddam should have been sorted out during the gulf war. We had the chance to chop his ass into tiny pieces right then. Problem sorted. Because that route wasn't taken then we have the situation now whereby either action or inaction is unacceptable. Plus the additional suffering caused to the people of Iraq by Saddam over the intervening period since the gulf war and the almost immediate butchering of the Kurds. We really left them with their flies open.
All too late and all too frantic. This is not going to end well for anyone.
All too late and all too frantic. This is not going to end well for anyone.
 |
|
Page 8 of 13 | |
|
|---|
Grog
Reply #142 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:37 PM
Reply #142 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:37 PM
ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had=Hard.....
Grog goes to hide under rock from Jafo
Grog goes to hide under rock from Jafo
Kinrik
Reply #143 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:44 PM
Reply #143 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:44 PM
heh...we won't mention how your "/ me" didn't work either in your original post...
Frogboy
Reply #144 Monday, October 14, 2002 4:14 PM
Reply #144 Monday, October 14, 2002 4:14 PM
Regarding this discussion:
I have great faith in the people who visit this message board. People are being quite reasponable and intelligent in it. We are all friends. Differences in opinions does not mean differences in principals. I don't think anyone here wants to turn anyone else into bone flecked jam.
Regarding electric powered cars:
Not going to happen. Electricity has to be produced somehow and it's primarily produced by burning coal and oil. It is much MUCH better for the environment to drive a gas powered car than driving an electric car because the pollution produced per watt is less (burning coal, converting that to energy and then transmitting it to your home to plug into your car loses a lot of energy to heat and discharge). Hybrid cars are your best bet for the foreseable future but all that will do is slow the rate of increase of use of fossil fuels.
Regarding war with Iraq
For many (including me I confess) the issue is defeating militant islam. Iraq is simply the path of least resistance to fight it right now. The choices all stink. Do nothing and risk millions of deaths or do something and ensure thousands of deaths. So it boils down to how high the millions of death risk is. As an American, the odds of an American being one of those millions of dead is much greater than say someone in Belgium. Therefore Americans tend to consider the millions of death risk more unacceptable than someone in Belgium.
I have great faith in the people who visit this message board. People are being quite reasponable and intelligent in it. We are all friends. Differences in opinions does not mean differences in principals. I don't think anyone here wants to turn anyone else into bone flecked jam.
Regarding electric powered cars:
Not going to happen. Electricity has to be produced somehow and it's primarily produced by burning coal and oil. It is much MUCH better for the environment to drive a gas powered car than driving an electric car because the pollution produced per watt is less (burning coal, converting that to energy and then transmitting it to your home to plug into your car loses a lot of energy to heat and discharge). Hybrid cars are your best bet for the foreseable future but all that will do is slow the rate of increase of use of fossil fuels.
Regarding war with Iraq
For many (including me I confess) the issue is defeating militant islam. Iraq is simply the path of least resistance to fight it right now. The choices all stink. Do nothing and risk millions of deaths or do something and ensure thousands of deaths. So it boils down to how high the millions of death risk is. As an American, the odds of an American being one of those millions of dead is much greater than say someone in Belgium. Therefore Americans tend to consider the millions of death risk more unacceptable than someone in Belgium.
bakerstreet
Reply #145 Monday, October 14, 2002 6:01 PM
Reply #145 Monday, October 14, 2002 6:01 PM
I just think that people really underestimate the good will of the American people, even towards our 'enemies'. My anger comes from the fact that the 'man-on-the-street' opinion towards the American people seems a lot more bleak throughout the world... I have seen too many smug, post 9-11 polls, demonstrations, and flaming effigies to believe differently. I will be very choosy how I show my support for these places; vocally, or as a traveler/consumer.
Paxx is wrong to say I consider such people to be my enemies. Why must I categorize them at all? I'm not fond of a lot of people, and I wouldn't buy anything from them, but I wouldn't call them enemies, either. America has only a handful of true allies around the world, and we have earned ourselves a great deal of misery forcing that title onto nations that don't deserve it. "Freindship" is not a default state, it is earned, as is it's opposite; we in America are learning this a couple of generations too late, IMHO.
Paxx is wrong to say I consider such people to be my enemies. Why must I categorize them at all? I'm not fond of a lot of people, and I wouldn't buy anything from them, but I wouldn't call them enemies, either. America has only a handful of true allies around the world, and we have earned ourselves a great deal of misery forcing that title onto nations that don't deserve it. "Freindship" is not a default state, it is earned, as is it's opposite; we in America are learning this a couple of generations too late, IMHO.
paxx
Reply #146 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:14 PM
Reply #146 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:14 PM
bakerstreet, the reason I said "ennemy" is because you mentionned the word "anti-american".
I must admit I am tired of hearing that word, along with "anti-jew", "anti-black", or anti-anything a soon as you dare have a different opinion as a person in one of those groups. Or even chauvinist if you think differently than a woman.
I know nobody who really is anti-american. It would be stupid anyway, since as Grog mentionned, it is difficult to define what an "American" is, other than somebody who lives in the USA. Americans are as different between themselves as any country in the World is different from another. And that's a good thing.
No, what some country condemn or are opposed to is NOT the American people, but the American foreign policy, over which you have little or no control.
If you want to understand how some people feel, try to reverse the roles. For you, America is the "good guy", necesserely. But for other people in the World, America is just a country, like any other country. Not presumely good nor presumely evil.
Just for one minute, lets play a game. Imagine that the USA is just a small, modest country. Not poor, but not rich either. It has an army, a modest one. Then, imagine that there is this big country, lets call it China. It has a terrible military power. It is 10 times stronger militarely as all the other countries in the World together. Now, that country, China, keep saying that they are the good guys, and that you should be grateful because they are there to protect you, as long as you don't oppose to them. Now, would you not be afraid? Would you prefer them to be there, powerful, capable of smushing you under its feet like a spider? Would you trust this foreign country so much? Are you completly sure that one day, they won't elect a nutty president that would rule over the World and destroy you?
If you're a Chinaman, a China powerful of that sort is a pride, a security, a relief even. But if you're not a Chinaman, that powerful China inspires fear, and fear inspires hate.
Goliath, even if he was a good guy, inspired fear because he was big and invincible.
Nobody hates the American people, bit yes, a lot of people fear the American governement with its almighty military power.
Bakerstreet, can you understand that? It's not personal. You're powerfull that's all. Too powerfull.
I must admit I am tired of hearing that word, along with "anti-jew", "anti-black", or anti-anything a soon as you dare have a different opinion as a person in one of those groups. Or even chauvinist if you think differently than a woman.
I know nobody who really is anti-american. It would be stupid anyway, since as Grog mentionned, it is difficult to define what an "American" is, other than somebody who lives in the USA. Americans are as different between themselves as any country in the World is different from another. And that's a good thing.
No, what some country condemn or are opposed to is NOT the American people, but the American foreign policy, over which you have little or no control.
If you want to understand how some people feel, try to reverse the roles. For you, America is the "good guy", necesserely. But for other people in the World, America is just a country, like any other country. Not presumely good nor presumely evil.
Just for one minute, lets play a game. Imagine that the USA is just a small, modest country. Not poor, but not rich either. It has an army, a modest one. Then, imagine that there is this big country, lets call it China. It has a terrible military power. It is 10 times stronger militarely as all the other countries in the World together. Now, that country, China, keep saying that they are the good guys, and that you should be grateful because they are there to protect you, as long as you don't oppose to them. Now, would you not be afraid? Would you prefer them to be there, powerful, capable of smushing you under its feet like a spider? Would you trust this foreign country so much? Are you completly sure that one day, they won't elect a nutty president that would rule over the World and destroy you?
If you're a Chinaman, a China powerful of that sort is a pride, a security, a relief even. But if you're not a Chinaman, that powerful China inspires fear, and fear inspires hate.
Goliath, even if he was a good guy, inspired fear because he was big and invincible.
Nobody hates the American people, bit yes, a lot of people fear the American governement with its almighty military power.
Bakerstreet, can you understand that? It's not personal. You're powerfull that's all. Too powerfull.
Jafo
Reply #147 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:15 PM
Reply #147 Monday, October 14, 2002 10:15 PM
Kinrik....there's no need to delete the thread. We're all 'grown up' enough to argue and discuss without pulling hair...
Grog....I'll say 'nothing' about your spelling except to say it's 'damn', not 'damm'...
To give you guys a little info....Bali is effectively to Australia what Hawaii is to the US.....'our' tropical paradise where 8% of all Aussie flight departures goes to.
Australians are more likely to have been to Bali than even Tasmania...
If one were to 'mathematically' compare 9/11 with this, accounting for population differences, then in US population terms, Australia has about 200 confirmed dead and 3000 missing.
Guess it's the price we pay for 'protecting' Timor as well as supporting Bush.
It ain't gonna stop us though....we're even more pig-headed than the yanks...
Grog....I'll say 'nothing' about your spelling except to say it's 'damn', not 'damm'...
To give you guys a little info....Bali is effectively to Australia what Hawaii is to the US.....'our' tropical paradise where 8% of all Aussie flight departures goes to.
Australians are more likely to have been to Bali than even Tasmania...
If one were to 'mathematically' compare 9/11 with this, accounting for population differences, then in US population terms, Australia has about 200 confirmed dead and 3000 missing.
Guess it's the price we pay for 'protecting' Timor as well as supporting Bush.
It ain't gonna stop us though....we're even more pig-headed than the yanks...
bakerstreet
Reply #148 Monday, October 14, 2002 11:28 PM
Reply #148 Monday, October 14, 2002 11:28 PM
paxx: You grant the people in question far too much intellectual and ethical credit when you project your own thinking on them.
I read the Chinese news opinions of 9-11, I saw people celebrating in the streets, and I heard praise for the attack come from mouths that I could have tutored in college. I was an English tutor at a school that had a high number of students from the middle east, many from royal (read: fascist) families. That was during the the Gulf War, so this isn't the first time I heard these hateful opinions.
Put yourself in our place as well. My tax money goes for a "defense" budget that has less to do with defense than babysitting the world, and for that investment I have seen my nation burned in effigy on the nightly news for the last 30 years. We welcome any and all people to come, get an education, get wealthy, and then when the whim hits them, they can go home and hate us.
I'd like to plan a vacation without hearing the word "terrorist" come out of my 6 year old daughter's mouth. She, at that age, knows that there are people in the world that will kill her if they get the chance, just because she is American. Xenophobic hate is beginning to come easy for Americans, and that is not good for the international 'community', not at all.
That is my perspective, and I *hate* it, so much so that the esoteric concerns of the old, quiet, European empires are of absolutely no significance.
I read the Chinese news opinions of 9-11, I saw people celebrating in the streets, and I heard praise for the attack come from mouths that I could have tutored in college. I was an English tutor at a school that had a high number of students from the middle east, many from royal (read: fascist) families. That was during the the Gulf War, so this isn't the first time I heard these hateful opinions.
Put yourself in our place as well. My tax money goes for a "defense" budget that has less to do with defense than babysitting the world, and for that investment I have seen my nation burned in effigy on the nightly news for the last 30 years. We welcome any and all people to come, get an education, get wealthy, and then when the whim hits them, they can go home and hate us.
I'd like to plan a vacation without hearing the word "terrorist" come out of my 6 year old daughter's mouth. She, at that age, knows that there are people in the world that will kill her if they get the chance, just because she is American. Xenophobic hate is beginning to come easy for Americans, and that is not good for the international 'community', not at all.
That is my perspective, and I *hate* it, so much so that the esoteric concerns of the old, quiet, European empires are of absolutely no significance.
joetheblow
Reply #149 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:55 AM
Reply #149 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:55 AM
I just read a Op ed on this subject. In someway reflects how I feel and maybe other too. If we go one way then "this", but if we say we will go one way maybe "that" won't happen 
It is a very hard debate Iraq and going in or not and the reasons why. If they go in what will happen could be anything from a Desert Storm type fight or World War II.
Reporters from around the wolrd will be watchin and showing the fight. It will be played differently depending on where you are even though it is the same event. Al Jezzeria will play it one way and CNN will play it another.
Well here is the artical. What do you think?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/opinion/13DOWD.html?todaysheadlines
It is a very hard debate Iraq and going in or not and the reasons why. If they go in what will happen could be anything from a Desert Storm type fight or World War II.
Reporters from around the wolrd will be watchin and showing the fight. It will be played differently depending on where you are even though it is the same event. Al Jezzeria will play it one way and CNN will play it another.
Well here is the artical. What do you think?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/opinion/13DOWD.html?todaysheadlines
joetheblow
Reply #150 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:06 AM
Reply #150 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:06 AM
This is a little off topic but I wanted to know, who danced in the streets after 9/11 happend? Do they really represent the tone toward America or was it just a reporter finding a nidle in a haystack (just to play it over and over again making it seem like it was happening everyday)
bakerstreet
Reply #151 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:42 AM
Reply #151 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:42 AM
We had a cease fire agreement, he didn't keep his end of it. I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why weapons of mass destruction even need to enter into it.
There were open celebrations in many countries in the middle east, though the one most talked about was in the Palestinian Authority. Chinese newspapers openly said that we were getting what we deserved. What really represented the tone against america, though, were the tons of interviews with educated, regular folks from all over the world who either think we deserved it, or don't believe it happened at all, or that americans and "The Jews" did it ourselves to make everyone want war.
A militant islamic cleric in Indonesia is now saying that it was United States operatives that destroyed the nightclub in Bali, so that we can go into Indonesia and kill terrorists. Of course we targeted Australians because we need their help and a good place to land planes on. It doesn't matter that only brainless people will believe him, since it is people who believe idiocy like that who fly planes into buildings.
As I said above, these are all hateful opinions I heard during the first gulf war.
There were open celebrations in many countries in the middle east, though the one most talked about was in the Palestinian Authority. Chinese newspapers openly said that we were getting what we deserved. What really represented the tone against america, though, were the tons of interviews with educated, regular folks from all over the world who either think we deserved it, or don't believe it happened at all, or that americans and "The Jews" did it ourselves to make everyone want war.
A militant islamic cleric in Indonesia is now saying that it was United States operatives that destroyed the nightclub in Bali, so that we can go into Indonesia and kill terrorists. Of course we targeted Australians because we need their help and a good place to land planes on. It doesn't matter that only brainless people will believe him, since it is people who believe idiocy like that who fly planes into buildings.
As I said above, these are all hateful opinions I heard during the first gulf war.
paxx
Reply #152 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:30 AM
Reply #152 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:30 AM
bakerstreet, don't be fooled by what the media show you. Don't forget they are looking for hypes. The images of people dancing after 9/11 were ones of some Palestinian, and certainly not the Palestinian authority who radically condemned the attack.
Back in the heart of the cold war, do you think there were no American cheering over Chernobil? What if there was a Russian camera catching on film a few Americans dancing over the Russians deaths?
Did you not see the other shots showing Palestians crying over 9/11? Those too were caught on film? Why only remember the bad ones?
Let me tell you about the media.
A few years ago, I worked in a hospital and all the nurses went on strike to rightly protest against the indecent salary they were making and the overwork they had to do. The thing is that it wasn't really a strike. All normal services were maintained. All the nurses were doing is refusing to do overtime. I remember a TV crew walking in the emergency room where I worked. Seeing that everything was normal, that the patient were all receiving good care and that the strike had little or no effect over the patient's care, the News Crew were disapointed and decided to go check out another hopsital in the hope of finding one where they could show just how horrible the situation was with the nurse strike.
That's jornalism today, bakerstreet. Because they show you something on TV doesn't mean that it's how it really is everywhere else.
Beware my friend. Reality is not always what you see on TV.
Just take what you see for what it is: you saw a few Palestinians dancing in the steets after 9/11. Does that mean al Palestinians were dancing? No. Doe sthat mean that most Palestians were dancing? No. It only means that the Palestians you saw on TV were dancing, that's it.
As for the Newspapers you are talking about, don't forget that China doesn't have free Press. It's no surprise that the communist government of China doesn't like the American freedom. It certainly doesn't mean that the chiese people agree with that.
As for that Islamic cleric, well, come on. We know what to think of religious fanatics, don't we?
You make a case with a few mentaly disordered people.
I've seen images on TV of fanatic chritians in the US who burned books and records. I've read stories about the Klu Klux Klan. Do I think that Americans are therefore religious wackos and black-hating criminals? Certainly not.
Back in the heart of the cold war, do you think there were no American cheering over Chernobil? What if there was a Russian camera catching on film a few Americans dancing over the Russians deaths?
Did you not see the other shots showing Palestians crying over 9/11? Those too were caught on film? Why only remember the bad ones?
Let me tell you about the media.
A few years ago, I worked in a hospital and all the nurses went on strike to rightly protest against the indecent salary they were making and the overwork they had to do. The thing is that it wasn't really a strike. All normal services were maintained. All the nurses were doing is refusing to do overtime. I remember a TV crew walking in the emergency room where I worked. Seeing that everything was normal, that the patient were all receiving good care and that the strike had little or no effect over the patient's care, the News Crew were disapointed and decided to go check out another hopsital in the hope of finding one where they could show just how horrible the situation was with the nurse strike.
That's jornalism today, bakerstreet. Because they show you something on TV doesn't mean that it's how it really is everywhere else.
Beware my friend. Reality is not always what you see on TV.
Just take what you see for what it is: you saw a few Palestinians dancing in the steets after 9/11. Does that mean al Palestinians were dancing? No. Doe sthat mean that most Palestians were dancing? No. It only means that the Palestians you saw on TV were dancing, that's it.
As for the Newspapers you are talking about, don't forget that China doesn't have free Press. It's no surprise that the communist government of China doesn't like the American freedom. It certainly doesn't mean that the chiese people agree with that.
As for that Islamic cleric, well, come on. We know what to think of religious fanatics, don't we?
You make a case with a few mentaly disordered people.
I've seen images on TV of fanatic chritians in the US who burned books and records. I've read stories about the Klu Klux Klan. Do I think that Americans are therefore religious wackos and black-hating criminals? Certainly not.
bakerstreet
Reply #153 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:59 AM
Reply #153 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:59 AM
Paxx: Sadly, I don't just watch TV. I'm not getting uppity with ya, Paxx, but Americans have both a free press and the freedom to look for other sources of information. DOn't let your mistrust of the press allow you to make up reality. I have a good number of islamic news sites in my favorites right now. There are plenty of ways to guage opinion outside the press, as well. Sure, the people could be robots, or brainwashed, or whatever, but sooner or later you have to say, "yup, that was enough to convince me". It takes a lot with me, believe it or not. I would prefer to think better of the world, but I'm never given a long enough lull in the hateful rhetoric to do so.
*cough* http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK216001
P.S. in an off-topic, Axis of Evil note, has anyone read about North Korea letting the Japanese people they kidnapped 25 years ago visit Japan? Didn't let their families go, though. They admit they kidnapped them, they apologize for the fact, but they won't let them go home... Here's a link to that story as well.--> http://www.online.ie/news/viewer.adp?article=1858917
You know, I was much happier when I was playing Everquest.
*cough* http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK216001
P.S. in an off-topic, Axis of Evil note, has anyone read about North Korea letting the Japanese people they kidnapped 25 years ago visit Japan? Didn't let their families go, though. They admit they kidnapped them, they apologize for the fact, but they won't let them go home... Here's a link to that story as well.--> http://www.online.ie/news/viewer.adp?article=1858917
You know, I was much happier when I was playing Everquest.
Lecrayon
Reply #154 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:42 AM
Reply #154 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:42 AM
Love is the only answer to hate. Unfortunately love is always killed in reality. Propaganda is everywhere. Governments aren't open to the people. They hide a lot and at the utmost they tell half-truths. We know it. We don't like it. And we can't do a thing about it, because everytime someone stands up and promises to do what is good for the people that someone is brutally assassinated. That's the world we live in. I feel an uprising in everyone, there is an anger that comes out sooner or later just because of all the untruths that we are told. It has to go out somehwo and the only way people know how to do this is seek an enemy and smash him. Terrible. Bestial.
paxx
Reply #155 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:53 AM
Reply #155 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:53 AM
bakerstreet, you said it yourself: you check Islamic news sites to get their pulse. Well, that's no secret that the Islamists hate the Americans. I'm not going to check the Vatican web site for information on birth control. 
Just so we agree on the semantics here:
Islamist is not equal to Arabs
Islamist is not equal to Islam either
Islamist = extreme religious Muslims who want religion to control the State.
Most Arabs are against Islamism. Most Muslims are against Islamism.
Just so we agree on the semantics here:
Islamist is not equal to Arabs
Islamist is not equal to Islam either
Islamist = extreme religious Muslims who want religion to control the State.
Most Arabs are against Islamism. Most Muslims are against Islamism.
moshi
Reply #156 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:14 AM
Reply #156 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:14 AM
btw:
Saddam Hussein is by no means a radical muslim or islamist
i think the US left him in power for a reason. they were far more afraid of a democracy in Iraq than of Saddam´s dictatorship. the majority of the Iraqi popuplation (60-65 %) is of the Shi´a confession (as in Iran). closer and even friendly relationships between Iran and Iraq is what both the US and their middle east allies (all dictatorships and Saudi Arabia, the closest allie, is as similar to the Taliban regime as you can imagine) should worry about most.
Saddam Hussein is by no means a radical muslim or islamist
i think the US left him in power for a reason. they were far more afraid of a democracy in Iraq than of Saddam´s dictatorship. the majority of the Iraqi popuplation (60-65 %) is of the Shi´a confession (as in Iran). closer and even friendly relationships between Iran and Iraq is what both the US and their middle east allies (all dictatorships and Saudi Arabia, the closest allie, is as similar to the Taliban regime as you can imagine) should worry about most.
craeonics
Reply #157 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:17 AM
Reply #157 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:17 AM
I hate paxx. He says way too much intelligent things.
moshi
Reply #158 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:19 AM
Reply #158 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:19 AM
CIA world factbook: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html
Frogboy
Reply #159 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:33 AM
Reply #159 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:33 AM
Actually history has shown that a crushing military response is the most effective response to hate. Wars have solved a lot of problems for the long term.
I wish it weren't that way. And in fact I actually do believe the time will come when the world will be able to resolve its issues through diplomacy. Afterall, no one can envision a war between USA, Japan, Germany, UK, France these days. Yet 150 years ago war between any of these countries was always a very real possibility.
Eventually the rest of the world will share a culture in which problems are solved with words and not arms. But that world will be one where those nation states are governed from below - liberal democracies.
No two democracies have ever gone to war with each other.
I wish it weren't that way. And in fact I actually do believe the time will come when the world will be able to resolve its issues through diplomacy. Afterall, no one can envision a war between USA, Japan, Germany, UK, France these days. Yet 150 years ago war between any of these countries was always a very real possibility.
Eventually the rest of the world will share a culture in which problems are solved with words and not arms. But that world will be one where those nation states are governed from below - liberal democracies.
No two democracies have ever gone to war with each other.
bakerstreet
Reply #160 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:38 AM
Reply #160 Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:38 AM
paxx: I'm not gonna argue definitions with ya, but I think you are off a bit. I don't frequent terrorist news services, or even fringe services like al J.
There are no muslim democracies, that I am aware of. China certainly controls the thoughts of its people. That said, it is possible that all the people that hate America around the world are brain-washed. How, though, does that change anything? You still have to live in a world that is boobytrapped with those opinions. Is a brainwashed man less, or more, dangerous than someone who made their own conclusions?
Lecrayon: You are speaking from a position where you *can* weep and paint flowers, and it is offensive. Often, outside high school, people who a start fight want to *kill* you, and it does little good to offer Love as an answer. In the last 20 years hundreds of thousands of people have been killed waiting on Europe to find a way to wield Love. Jimmy Carter comes in afterward, works out a deal, and wins a Nobel prize. It does little for those who died waiting, though. I would suggest you crack a book and either come up with tangible ideas on how to fix the world, or quietly school yourself enough to take part. There are many, many people in the world who are alive today because wise people realized in time that Love wasn't going to save them.
There are no muslim democracies, that I am aware of. China certainly controls the thoughts of its people. That said, it is possible that all the people that hate America around the world are brain-washed. How, though, does that change anything? You still have to live in a world that is boobytrapped with those opinions. Is a brainwashed man less, or more, dangerous than someone who made their own conclusions?
Lecrayon: You are speaking from a position where you *can* weep and paint flowers, and it is offensive. Often, outside high school, people who a start fight want to *kill* you, and it does little good to offer Love as an answer. In the last 20 years hundreds of thousands of people have been killed waiting on Europe to find a way to wield Love. Jimmy Carter comes in afterward, works out a deal, and wins a Nobel prize. It does little for those who died waiting, though. I would suggest you crack a book and either come up with tangible ideas on how to fix the world, or quietly school yourself enough to take part. There are many, many people in the world who are alive today because wise people realized in time that Love wasn't going to save them.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 8 of 13 | |
|
|---|
Reply #141 Monday, October 14, 2002 3:35 PM
Ah such is Life.....
Grog gets Blindfold and a Smoke. Waits for Jafo to show up with the Spelling Squad