Logical Falacies
Saturday, June 1, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
On-line communication is a tricky thing. Without tones of voice, facial expressions, body language, etc. it is often difficult to convey meaning.
The effort of having to type out something versus speaking adds to the difficulty. This is especially true when trying to convince someone of a certain point of view.
This is a fairly popular web page on the Internt for learning how to avoid common pitfalls in constructive a logical assertion (or argument).
http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
The effort of having to type out something versus speaking adds to the difficulty. This is especially true when trying to convince someone of a certain point of view.
This is a fairly popular web page on the Internt for learning how to avoid common pitfalls in constructive a logical assertion (or argument).
http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm
 |
|
Page 1 of 4 | |
|
|---|
joetheblow
Reply #2 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:45 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:45 PM
yes... I was reading some of the threads and I noticed that myself. writing and speaking are 2 different animals. when you add body language then they become more different.
well..... learning is fun... so keep a open mind and learn as much as you can.
well..... learning is fun... so keep a open mind and learn as much as you can.
joetheblow
Reply #3 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:54 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:54 PM
and how come the t-shirts can't be theme aware too? when your selling themes why not sell a like t-shirt?
I like this one your selling:
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=PREVIEW&source=https://www.wincustomize.com/images/store/LWN-shirt.jpg
how come there isn't a bunch of shirts with logos and designes on them??
you can use www.cafepress.com or some site like it.
I like this one your selling:
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=PREVIEW&source=https://www.wincustomize.com/images/store/LWN-shirt.jpg
how come there isn't a bunch of shirts with logos and designes on them??
you can use www.cafepress.com or some site like it.
joetheblow
Reply #4 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:56 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:56 PM
https://www.wincustomize.com/images/store/LWN-shirt.jpg
sorry this is the link
sorry this is the link
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #5 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:34 PM
Reply #5 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:34 PM
The majority of people do not have an adequate command of the English language. This often comes to the fore when using the written word. Frequently on this message board questions are asked, and not understood by the reader, because of poor English. When the question is answered incorrectly, the writer becomes frustrated.
Of course it is partly the responsibility of the reader to realize some people do not have the ability to make themselves understood clearly. I am a member of another list where a couple of valued members are often peceived as being agressive, argumentative and rude, by quite a large number of people. This often leads to massive flame wars. One of the members is Russian, the other is German; BOTH of them are writing in a second language! Can you imagine the difficulty conveying feeling and expression in a foreign language! Someone asks a question, another replies in an apparently abrupt manner, and its 'here we go again'!
So the moral is: if someone is not making themselves clear, be patient and understanding. They know what they meant even if you don't. Please try to be understanding and thoughtful. Help them as much as you can without becoming frustrated yourself. We are all here to help each other. If you do ask a question, there is nearly always someone willing to help - that's what makes this a community, and a damn good one at that.
Remember also, 'there's always a bigger fish' - I like to think my English is pretty good; I'm sure if my university professor read some of the things written by me here, the poor guy would turn in his grave...
Soapbox over...
Of course it is partly the responsibility of the reader to realize some people do not have the ability to make themselves understood clearly. I am a member of another list where a couple of valued members are often peceived as being agressive, argumentative and rude, by quite a large number of people. This often leads to massive flame wars. One of the members is Russian, the other is German; BOTH of them are writing in a second language! Can you imagine the difficulty conveying feeling and expression in a foreign language! Someone asks a question, another replies in an apparently abrupt manner, and its 'here we go again'!
So the moral is: if someone is not making themselves clear, be patient and understanding. They know what they meant even if you don't. Please try to be understanding and thoughtful. Help them as much as you can without becoming frustrated yourself. We are all here to help each other. If you do ask a question, there is nearly always someone willing to help - that's what makes this a community, and a damn good one at that.
Remember also, 'there's always a bigger fish' - I like to think my English is pretty good; I'm sure if my university professor read some of the things written by me here, the poor guy would turn in his grave...
Soapbox over...
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #6 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:36 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:36 PM
..then there is the unintentional typo..sod it!
Where's that ****** spelling checker?
Where's that ****** spelling checker?
UBoB
Reply #7 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:36 PM
Reply #7 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:36 PM
Brad, in the English language there are often a number of words to convey the same message. Each one has it's own nuances and subtleties. This is where conotation comes into play. Finding the right word, with the right set of nuances, subtleties and conotation is the tricky part. I've found with time, you learn them. It does, however, require that you keep your vocabulary small. Not so small as to seem a simpleton, but small enough so that you always remain in command of it. The right words, placed in the right spot at the right time will almost always convey the message you desire without sparking conflict. 
There are a number of very good books written concering the English language and its use. One of the best I've read, (and it is less than 200 pages with large type
), is called "A Bawdy Language (How a Second-Rate Language Slept Its Way to the Top)" and it's by the the author Howard Richler. It's very entertaining and very informative regarding our given language, and it's a very quick read. (I did it in one 5 hour sitting).
Whatever else Brad, never worry too much about your word usage. The English language is so full of pitfalls it's a wonder any of us can get it right even 10 percent of the time.
Like the author of the above mentioned book says:
"As languages go, English is as impure as they come: rife with borrowings from other languages, contaminated by dialects and slang, tainted by curses, and confused with double meanings, euphemisms and jargon."
In other words, don't worry if you don't get it right all of the time. The language just won't allow it.
There are a number of very good books written concering the English language and its use. One of the best I've read, (and it is less than 200 pages with large type
), is called "A Bawdy Language (How a Second-Rate Language Slept Its Way to the Top)" and it's by the the author Howard Richler. It's very entertaining and very informative regarding our given language, and it's a very quick read. (I did it in one 5 hour sitting).Whatever else Brad, never worry too much about your word usage. The English language is so full of pitfalls it's a wonder any of us can get it right even 10 percent of the time.
Like the author of the above mentioned book says:
"As languages go, English is as impure as they come: rife with borrowings from other languages, contaminated by dialects and slang, tainted by curses, and confused with double meanings, euphemisms and jargon."
In other words, don't worry if you don't get it right all of the time. The language just won't allow it.
Frogboy
Reply #8 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:44 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:44 PM
One of my favorite books on the subject is called "The Mother Tongue" whichis similar to the book you describe.
English has many many words for describing the same thing. But using the right term in the right circumstnace can make ones meaning more clear.
Often when I write I try to think of the proper term.
One example is in marketing. Whenever I'm trying to write any sort of marketing document, I'll say "product X leverages its strengths in.." rather than "product X exploits its strengths in.." since exploits has a less favorable cnnotation now than leverage.
I also like to use the word "assert" or "assertion" rather than argument for similar reasons.
English has many many words for describing the same thing. But using the right term in the right circumstnace can make ones meaning more clear.
Often when I write I try to think of the proper term.
One example is in marketing. Whenever I'm trying to write any sort of marketing document, I'll say "product X leverages its strengths in.." rather than "product X exploits its strengths in.." since exploits has a less favorable cnnotation now than leverage.
I also like to use the word "assert" or "assertion" rather than argument for similar reasons.
feline
Reply #9 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:55 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:55 PM
motion - In other words, don't worry if you don't get it right all of the time. The language just won't allow it.
does this mean i can blame my spelling on the english language officially now?
feline has been doing this unofficially for years now
does this mean i can blame my spelling on the english language officially now?
feline has been doing this unofficially for years now
feline
Reply #10 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:01 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:01 PM
on the front of clear communication, even if two people can both manage to survive the pitfalls of english, unless they share a common frame of reference, you are going to have problems.
a good example is watch a programmer and a user communicating via email. it would be commical if it didnt cause so many headaches.
a good example is watch a programmer and a user communicating via email. it would be commical if it didnt cause so many headaches.
UBoB
Reply #11 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:05 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:05 PM
Ahhh, sorry feline. Spelling is the one things you can't blame on the language. You can, however, blame it on your long line of English teachers. That was their responsibility.
UBoB
Reply #12 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:06 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:06 PM
That extra "s" on the end of the word "thing" is a prime example. I blame this on my 6th grade teacher Mr. Downey.
Chris
Reply #13 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:53 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, June 1, 2002 3:53 PM
Brad, is that book's full title "The Mother Tongue: English and How it got that Way"? I remember many many years ago reading a book of that title. It was a wonderful book.
Frogboy
Reply #14 Saturday, June 1, 2002 4:38 PM
Reply #14 Saturday, June 1, 2002 4:38 PM
Yea, that's the one. We've lost all sorts of strange words.
English has a zillion words for describing various levels of cold but very few for various levels of warmth. Cool chilly frigid, icey, freezing, etc. Compared to hot, warm and a handful of relatively new words.
English has a zillion words for describing various levels of cold but very few for various levels of warmth. Cool chilly frigid, icey, freezing, etc. Compared to hot, warm and a handful of relatively new words.
Chris
Reply #15 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:07 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:07 PM
I think I also remember reading in that book that the reason we aren't supposed to end sentences with a preposition was that a long time ago some monk or such arbitrarly made that rule.
Lecrayon
Reply #16 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:11 PM
And, I might add, there is also a cultural difference. People like me, whose native language is another than english sometimes find it difficult to understand the exact value of the words. Maybe you have found me irritating or aggressive or arrogant, I apologize for that. Also if you have to translate feelings be aware that that is incredibly difficult because again another culture might find it offensive. I feel myself lucky because I have been able to taste the Americam society and the Australian society and most of the European countries. Out of experience I can tell many cultures have different feelings about the same word! Different attitudes towards life and so on...And for the third time I would like to say that reading is difficult. Many people pick one line because they feel personally attacked and blow it up to incredible proportions. So try to understand what is said in general first and overlook the totality of the matter rather than take things personally. I really have tried that in the threads wher I was involved with, I'd rather look to the bigger picture instead of ant-f#### as we say...
feline
Reply #17 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:16 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:16 PM
motion - You can, however, blame it on your long line of English teachers. That was their responsibility.
also been doing that for years
also been doing that for years
feline
Reply #18 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:19 PM
Reply #18 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:19 PM
Chris - I think I also remember reading in that book that the reason we aren't supposed to end sentences with a preposition was that a long time ago some monk or such arbitrarly made that rule.
at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a preposition? my english lessons never seemed to get past spelling
at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a preposition? my english lessons never seemed to get past spelling
Lecrayon
Reply #19 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:22 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, June 1, 2002 5:22 PM
Yeah, my english teacher hated me, he didnt understand me on purpose and got low rates on purpose 
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 1 of 4 | |
|
|---|
Reply #1 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:31 PM