I'm aggravated
Thursday, May 30, 2002 by davad70 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This is a quote from Frogboy taken from the following news item. https://www.wincustomize.com/index.asp?Cmd=full&NewsID=943
Similarly, I don''t see how skin authors think that they are doing the site a favor by allowing the site to HOST the skins.
So...is this the attitude of the mojority of the people in leadership postions here (admins/wizops) or is it just Frogboy?
Similarly, I don''t see how skin authors think that they are doing the site a favor by allowing the site to HOST the skins.
So...is this the attitude of the mojority of the people in leadership postions here (admins/wizops) or is it just Frogboy?
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pjpowell
Reply #42 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:12 PM
Reply #42 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:12 PM
Chichigirl:
To paraphrase you 'I for one have been hurt by your attitude to Stardock/Frogboy'.
Every time I read your posts I feel angry, hurt and puzzled. I have bit my lip again and again but now I just can't hold it in anymore. Frogboy is not out to get you. Stardock are not out to get you. Wincustomize is not out to get you. I don't know if you misunderstand what Frogboy says or what but you seem to read things into his words that I just can't seem to get my head around.
Let's just think if everybody took their skins off this site or this site closed down tomorrow what would happen:
People would still be uploading to Deviantart, deskmod, skinbase, los
More important is that people would still be downloading from those places. Some may not bother looking elsewhere but many will move on to another one.
This will obviously slow down or kill those sites eventually due to higher bandwidth being used. (If it doesn't then Stardock have gained a whole load by closing down as they are no longer paying to host skins and still get the marketing.)
We as skinners end up with less sites to upload to
We as users end up with less sites to download from
Stardock end up with less places for people to become exposed to their software (unless the other sites can conitnue to run with the extra influx of people)
LeCrayon: If WC can't be supported by OD anymore then there is fundamentally something wrong with its businessplan.
Wincustomize was not ever designed to be supported by ODN subscribers. Brad has stated this many times. Would it be fair that those who actually contribute to Stardock by paying for the software end up paying for all the people who just downloaded a shareware copy of WB or use Winamp, Wallpapers etc? I want my subscription to ODN to go toward Stardock making better and more cool customisation tools. Wincustomize was always planned to be able to stand largely on it's own two feet. Some cash from stardock would be inevitable as it can be argued that it is a marketing tool. But when your marketing tool ends up costing more than the marketing from it makes then something has to change.
They tried the hats and t-shirts but once someone has bought a hat and t-shirt why on earth would they want another one? The Wincustomize CD was nice but most of it's content you could get for free anyway.
A subscription is the only viable option after all this other than closing down. And ODN users can still download from the site and use it to it's full capacity. So you don't want to have to subscribe and get the skinbrowser then buy ODN. It's a load of great stuff at a very low price when you think about it.
Not aimed at anyone but freeloaders:
If you don't use Stardock stuff then go elsewhere or be prepared to contribute in some way and get the great skinbrowser and other goodies thrown in. Or be satisfied with the limit on downloads a free account gets you.
Disclaimer: I am admittedly probably too close to the situation to make an objective statement. I talk to many of the stardock developers daily on irc and consider them to be friends. This is one reason it hurts me to see what I feel are unjustified complaints, flames, whatever you like to call them.
To paraphrase you 'I for one have been hurt by your attitude to Stardock/Frogboy'.
Every time I read your posts I feel angry, hurt and puzzled. I have bit my lip again and again but now I just can't hold it in anymore. Frogboy is not out to get you. Stardock are not out to get you. Wincustomize is not out to get you. I don't know if you misunderstand what Frogboy says or what but you seem to read things into his words that I just can't seem to get my head around.
Let's just think if everybody took their skins off this site or this site closed down tomorrow what would happen:
People would still be uploading to Deviantart, deskmod, skinbase, los
More important is that people would still be downloading from those places. Some may not bother looking elsewhere but many will move on to another one.
This will obviously slow down or kill those sites eventually due to higher bandwidth being used. (If it doesn't then Stardock have gained a whole load by closing down as they are no longer paying to host skins and still get the marketing.)
We as skinners end up with less sites to upload to
We as users end up with less sites to download from
Stardock end up with less places for people to become exposed to their software (unless the other sites can conitnue to run with the extra influx of people)
LeCrayon: If WC can't be supported by OD anymore then there is fundamentally something wrong with its businessplan.
Wincustomize was not ever designed to be supported by ODN subscribers. Brad has stated this many times. Would it be fair that those who actually contribute to Stardock by paying for the software end up paying for all the people who just downloaded a shareware copy of WB or use Winamp, Wallpapers etc? I want my subscription to ODN to go toward Stardock making better and more cool customisation tools. Wincustomize was always planned to be able to stand largely on it's own two feet. Some cash from stardock would be inevitable as it can be argued that it is a marketing tool. But when your marketing tool ends up costing more than the marketing from it makes then something has to change.
They tried the hats and t-shirts but once someone has bought a hat and t-shirt why on earth would they want another one? The Wincustomize CD was nice but most of it's content you could get for free anyway.
A subscription is the only viable option after all this other than closing down. And ODN users can still download from the site and use it to it's full capacity. So you don't want to have to subscribe and get the skinbrowser then buy ODN. It's a load of great stuff at a very low price when you think about it.
Not aimed at anyone but freeloaders:
If you don't use Stardock stuff then go elsewhere or be prepared to contribute in some way and get the great skinbrowser and other goodies thrown in. Or be satisfied with the limit on downloads a free account gets you.
Disclaimer: I am admittedly probably too close to the situation to make an objective statement. I talk to many of the stardock developers daily on irc and consider them to be friends. This is one reason it hurts me to see what I feel are unjustified complaints, flames, whatever you like to call them.
Mike Divine
Reply #43 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:37 PM
Reply #43 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:37 PM
Bottom Line,
I hope not to step on some toes BUT, if you do not WANT to pay for it, then DO NOT. American way. If you do not like the way it looks, then DO NOT LOOK AT IT. I grow cold at people missing the point, and getting others that ARE PUTTING OUT A GREAT SITE and SERVICE to the PEOPLE that WANT IT. I for one have bought AND, WILL buy to support this site. America is free, you can say what you want and when you want. Drive, walk and or run where you want to. If you do not like the way this site is going, and you do NOT want to help or support, THEN GO TO ANOTHER SITE. Yes, I can say this, I am also an American. Thank you all for the great work and PLEASE do not stop putting out the best...
Mike
I hope not to step on some toes BUT, if you do not WANT to pay for it, then DO NOT. American way. If you do not like the way it looks, then DO NOT LOOK AT IT. I grow cold at people missing the point, and getting others that ARE PUTTING OUT A GREAT SITE and SERVICE to the PEOPLE that WANT IT. I for one have bought AND, WILL buy to support this site. America is free, you can say what you want and when you want. Drive, walk and or run where you want to. If you do not like the way this site is going, and you do NOT want to help or support, THEN GO TO ANOTHER SITE. Yes, I can say this, I am also an American. Thank you all for the great work and PLEASE do not stop putting out the best...
Mike
Lecrayon
Reply #44 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:43 PM
Reply #44 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:43 PM
Thank you Frogboy for that comment
Thanks PJP too
BTW Are the results of the stardock company publicised somewhere?
Thanks PJP too
BTW Are the results of the stardock company publicised somewhere?
Frogboy
Reply #45 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:52 PM
Reply #45 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:52 PM
Results in what sense?
Without getting too specific, here is a rough idea of WB sales where 1999 sales = 1.
1999: 1
2000: 2
2001: 2.3
2002: (so far) ~3.
Object Desktop sales follow a similar pattern. But obviously the idea is that Stardock customers shouldn't be subsidizing non-Stardock customers indefinitely.
As ChiChigirl pointed out, Stardock used to have its own direct skin site. Back then it would get 50,000 or so visitors per month but uesrs were pretty much just sent over to skinz.org (few people realize that the massive traffic that WinCustomize gets today used to be sent to skinz.org, they somehow think that skinz.org just magically was super popular on its own without having done any sort of promotion). When you're getting millions of visitors with only a small percent actually customrs, that's a scenario you just don't want to have go on indefinitely.
There are LOTS of ways to contribute. Subscriptions, making skins, participating in the message boards, writing comments, etc. Anyone with apprentice access or higher will not be subject to any sort of limitations. I'm not sure how anyone can feel too much sympathy for the warez d00d downloading 500 megs of skins and themes who's never even looked at the message board or made a comment or contributed in any way.
Without getting too specific, here is a rough idea of WB sales where 1999 sales = 1.
1999: 1
2000: 2
2001: 2.3
2002: (so far) ~3.
Object Desktop sales follow a similar pattern. But obviously the idea is that Stardock customers shouldn't be subsidizing non-Stardock customers indefinitely.
As ChiChigirl pointed out, Stardock used to have its own direct skin site. Back then it would get 50,000 or so visitors per month but uesrs were pretty much just sent over to skinz.org (few people realize that the massive traffic that WinCustomize gets today used to be sent to skinz.org, they somehow think that skinz.org just magically was super popular on its own without having done any sort of promotion). When you're getting millions of visitors with only a small percent actually customrs, that's a scenario you just don't want to have go on indefinitely.
There are LOTS of ways to contribute. Subscriptions, making skins, participating in the message boards, writing comments, etc. Anyone with apprentice access or higher will not be subject to any sort of limitations. I'm not sure how anyone can feel too much sympathy for the warez d00d downloading 500 megs of skins and themes who's never even looked at the message board or made a comment or contributed in any way.
Lecrayon
Reply #46 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:28 PM
Reply #46 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:28 PM
Thank you Frogboy
I indeed meant the company results like quarterly results, gross results / net results and such...I have no idea how it is in your country but I believe companies have an obligation to publicize their figures..So I wondered if I could have a peek somewhere...
I indeed meant the company results like quarterly results, gross results / net results and such...I have no idea how it is in your country but I believe companies have an obligation to publicize their figures..So I wondered if I could have a peek somewhere...
davad70
Reply #47 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:43 PM
Reply #47 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:43 PM
I gather that having a supporter (customer/skinner) exclusive site isn't seen as a viable solution. Is this because the cost would still be too extensive for Stardock to support, or because you really want to host a community site? Basically, what is the purpose of WC at this point? To support Stardock apps by being a library for its customers, or to be a community site? Probably both I would imagine.
joetheblow
Reply #48 Friday, May 31, 2002 9:24 PM
Reply #48 Friday, May 31, 2002 9:24 PM
My goodness, what is a newbee to do after reading all of this stuff. I didn't know how all of this worked actually. I just came across the site one day and downloaded windowblinds trail. It was pretty lame but I couldn't stand the regular windows after I turned it off. So I bought it. Then I bought the Object manager. So I spent 65 dollars I quess. It was soooooo worth it. AND after reading this "thread" as it is called, I now see there is a method behind the madness called Wincustomize. The way it is being handled will allow people to work together, team up, see other peoples work and so on. I really do believe 2 or 3 years from now this will be a big niche market. It will be because of super sites like this one that archive skins that will allow the future of skinning to be very large indead. I am sure that is the point of view of Stardock (what kind of name is that?) Since I like designing I am glad I can have a place to show off "stuffs". Since I also like to make money so I can live, I would like to make skin siutes and sell them. But where would I host them at??? Well let me not go there..... but many of the friend I have shown this to like it allot. There are business administators, companies and such who like to have a designed desktop. The City of New York does it all the time and very poorly I might add.
So I guess the bottom line is sure this site hosts our skins... I am not sure what skinner thinks they are doing the site a favor by placing there skins on it but ummmmm... I think it is a 2 way street. We get promotion and meet others (allot of "others") and they get skins and there users have more to choose from. They get more money, we still use the site, submit more skins, the users get more "stuffs" and Stardock gets more money. We are allowed do use the site and submit more skins, the user gets more skins, Stardock gets more money to pay for the site, we use the site to host our skins for download.
yada yada yada.... and don't think Stardock will be the only one making money. By premoting our stuffs we get connections and start sites like PixStudio and sell siutes and do contract deals with Badboy, Universal, NYC Housing Authority, 7UP, Citibank, Juno, MSN, etc......
interesting..........
So I guess the bottom line is sure this site hosts our skins... I am not sure what skinner thinks they are doing the site a favor by placing there skins on it but ummmmm... I think it is a 2 way street. We get promotion and meet others (allot of "others") and they get skins and there users have more to choose from. They get more money, we still use the site, submit more skins, the users get more "stuffs" and Stardock gets more money. We are allowed do use the site and submit more skins, the user gets more skins, Stardock gets more money to pay for the site, we use the site to host our skins for download.
yada yada yada.... and don't think Stardock will be the only one making money. By premoting our stuffs we get connections and start sites like PixStudio and sell siutes and do contract deals with Badboy, Universal, NYC Housing Authority, 7UP, Citibank, Juno, MSN, etc......
interesting..........
Third Eye
Reply #49 Friday, May 31, 2002 9:41 PM
Reply #49 Friday, May 31, 2002 9:41 PM
"Lecrayon - ...Soon we have to pay for fresh air too!"
I don't mean to scare you or anything but you might want to take a look at these:
2202bar: http://www.2202bar.com/
fl02w: http://flo2w.com/
02Bar: http://www.oxygen4u.com/
Breathe 2: http://www.breatheo2.com/
I don't mean to scare you or anything but you might want to take a look at these:
2202bar: http://www.2202bar.com/
fl02w: http://flo2w.com/
02Bar: http://www.oxygen4u.com/
Breathe 2: http://www.breatheo2.com/
chichigirl46
Reply #50 Friday, May 31, 2002 11:14 PM
Reply #50 Friday, May 31, 2002 11:14 PM
Frogboy, I have NEVER use the term "BRAD IS EVIL" But you yourself use this term a lot........
pjpowell....... Please do not take what I said out of context, just because I'm voicing my opinion that differs from yours is no reason to get up-tight. I'ts just my opinion.........
Where the heck is "everyone is not out to get you" coming from....... I have no idea what your talking about......
I have heard this term "If you don't like it, you can leave" I find that this is the only place that uses this term..........That's real nice
I am supporting this site, Obj desktop/CursorXP/skins /and at my site..... and I feel that I should be able to express my opinion with out some one getting angry all the time........
pjpowell....... Please do not take what I said out of context, just because I'm voicing my opinion that differs from yours is no reason to get up-tight. I'ts just my opinion.........
Where the heck is "everyone is not out to get you" coming from....... I have no idea what your talking about......
I have heard this term "If you don't like it, you can leave" I find that this is the only place that uses this term..........That's real nice
I am supporting this site, Obj desktop/CursorXP/skins /and at my site..... and I feel that I should be able to express my opinion with out some one getting angry all the time........
paxx
Reply #51 Friday, May 31, 2002 11:51 PM
Reply #51 Friday, May 31, 2002 11:51 PM
chichi, I probably regret saying this, but what the heck...
I've always thought a great deal of you and respected you a bunch. But I must admit that lately I haven't read anything from you here that wasn't a direct attack on Stardock, Brad, this site or its admins. And I must admit I am starting to be a bit disapointed in you.
I've always known you as a sweet person. Why so much negativity lately?
Sure, you're allowed your opinions. But please try to diversify a little bit, not always just attacks and critics.
Peace, chichi. Please.
I've always thought a great deal of you and respected you a bunch. But I must admit that lately I haven't read anything from you here that wasn't a direct attack on Stardock, Brad, this site or its admins. And I must admit I am starting to be a bit disapointed in you.
I've always known you as a sweet person. Why so much negativity lately?
Sure, you're allowed your opinions. But please try to diversify a little bit, not always just attacks and critics.
Peace, chichi. Please.
joetheblow
Reply #53 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:20 AM
Reply #53 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:20 AM
.....Disney, ESPN, PC Magazine, NBA, NFL, PlayStation, Upoc, HBO, Adobe, Macromedia.....
yes we are being used by Stardock...
but we are also using them......
I still think it is a community site because its free for all to use.
yes we are being used by Stardock...
but we are also using them......
I still think it is a community site because its free for all to use.
joetheblow
Reply #54 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:16 AM
Reply #54 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:16 AM
.... MTV, BET, VH1, E!, SNL, Vibe Magazine, Source, Wall Street....
Jafo
Reply #55 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:24 AM
Reply #55 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:24 AM
Peoples...chichi, like most of us, has personal real-life [tm] issues that can and will inadvertently colour your impressions of things in general.
Sometimes it's hard to separate the 'bad' in one environment from the 'mediocre' in another....and perhaps things come out 'less successfully' than one might have wished. {I'll say no more on the subject], chichi...
BTW....the 'if you don't like it, leave' comment is mild in comparison to what you will encounter at some other sites [name and address withheld]...
Sometimes it's hard to separate the 'bad' in one environment from the 'mediocre' in another....and perhaps things come out 'less successfully' than one might have wished. {I'll say no more on the subject], chichi...
BTW....the 'if you don't like it, leave' comment is mild in comparison to what you will encounter at some other sites [name and address withheld]...
Jafo
Reply #56 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:27 AM
Reply #56 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:27 AM
Lecrayon...
Public corporations....those listed on the stock-market may be obliged to reveal corporate information, but private companies....no, no more than you as a person would be required to disclose your income/tax/whatever...
Public corporations....those listed on the stock-market may be obliged to reveal corporate information, but private companies....no, no more than you as a person would be required to disclose your income/tax/whatever...
skinner7892
Reply #57 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:35 AM
Reply #57 Saturday, June 1, 2002 1:35 AM
Just between you and me:
After reading all this thread (and some others in the past weeks), I am disapointed to see how some are fast to find bugs and basically start "fights" on words. I mean, yes we can voice our opinion and it's up to each and everyone to take what they want from what is written but at the same time, and it's just my very humble low-level opinion, but I find that some threads/posts are "polluting" figuratively speaking the board and shouldn't be there. I mean, for me the question is: what does it bring to the community constructively speaking? Does it help doing one more step forward or is it just a step backward?
Some invoke the fact they are customers and own the right to express their opinions but me too i'm a "legit" customer and I also have the right, in this case, [start of my freedom of speech] to say I that I don't appreciate "word fights" and that I wish they never make it to the board. When I come around, it is to relax from my day to day very stressful job and try to enjoy my passion with others. Honestly, between you and me, when I read some posts, I feel more frustration than anything because I honestly don't expect to be enflammed by "unecessary spicy" topics on a board dedicated to the art of skinning. "Well, don't read them" you might say, and you're right. But just as you reading these lines, my curiosity is so strong that I can't resist reading them and it's a human behavior I don't want to exploit when I come here So if they were just not there, it would be naturally easier to resist [end of my freedom of speech]
Ok, I know that by writting this post I might not help the cause of "good manners" because i'm confident it will surely tease someone who will shortely reply to my post and express his (her) opinion about it. Then I will have to reply saying I didn't meant what he(she) understood, we'll launch another word fight and it will start all over again...
Seriously, my intentions here aren't to point at anyone (really!) but rather to express my feelings toward certain human attitudes I've noticed. Maybe my understanding of some topics is wrong and maybe it's just that it's now about 1:30AM here and I have my week where you can think of so I should get to bed instead of writing this (which I will do in a minute). Still, the call of nature was strong enough for me so I had to tell someone. And as I said at the beginning of the post, please, keep all this between you and me
P.S. I was totally sober when writing these lines
After reading all this thread (and some others in the past weeks), I am disapointed to see how some are fast to find bugs and basically start "fights" on words. I mean, yes we can voice our opinion and it's up to each and everyone to take what they want from what is written but at the same time, and it's just my very humble low-level opinion, but I find that some threads/posts are "polluting" figuratively speaking the board and shouldn't be there. I mean, for me the question is: what does it bring to the community constructively speaking? Does it help doing one more step forward or is it just a step backward?
Some invoke the fact they are customers and own the right to express their opinions but me too i'm a "legit" customer and I also have the right, in this case, [start of my freedom of speech] to say I that I don't appreciate "word fights" and that I wish they never make it to the board. When I come around, it is to relax from my day to day very stressful job and try to enjoy my passion with others. Honestly, between you and me, when I read some posts, I feel more frustration than anything because I honestly don't expect to be enflammed by "unecessary spicy" topics on a board dedicated to the art of skinning. "Well, don't read them" you might say, and you're right. But just as you reading these lines, my curiosity is so strong that I can't resist reading them and it's a human behavior I don't want to exploit when I come here
So if they were just not there, it would be naturally easier to resist [end of my freedom of speech]Ok, I know that by writting this post I might not help the cause of "good manners" because i'm confident it will surely tease someone who will shortely reply to my post and express his (her) opinion about it. Then I will have to reply saying I didn't meant what he(she) understood, we'll launch another word fight and it will start all over again...
Seriously, my intentions here aren't to point at anyone (really!) but rather to express my feelings toward certain human attitudes I've noticed. Maybe my understanding of some topics is wrong and maybe it's just that it's now about 1:30AM here and I have my week where you can think of so I should get to bed instead of writing this (which I will do in a minute). Still, the call of nature was strong enough for me so I had to tell someone. And as I said at the beginning of the post, please, keep all this between you and me
P.S. I was totally sober when writing these lines
Lecrayon
Reply #58 Saturday, June 1, 2002 4:12 AM
Reply #58 Saturday, June 1, 2002 4:12 AM
I don't believe that only companies on the stockmarket have to publicize their figures. Every company has to pay corporate taxes and so figures have to be presented. Companies have to be registered as a company in what we call "chamber of commerce". So stardock cy has to be registered somewhere.
If WC has to become a selfsupporting part of the company then I would like to have some insight in how big the costs are and not just some fingerwork in threads here but cool hard facts. I don't mind people making money, I do mind when oilprices go up just to milk the commonm people so to speak. Eventually, the balance sheet will tell the story so that's why I wanted to have a peek. Even our chessclub has to account for membership raises.
If WC has to become a selfsupporting part of the company then I would like to have some insight in how big the costs are and not just some fingerwork in threads here but cool hard facts. I don't mind people making money, I do mind when oilprices go up just to milk the commonm people so to speak. Eventually, the balance sheet will tell the story so that's why I wanted to have a peek. Even our chessclub has to account for membership raises.
Jafo
Reply #59 Saturday, June 1, 2002 8:18 AM
Reply #59 Saturday, June 1, 2002 8:18 AM
Lecrayon....Stardock would [I assume] have an accountant.
Between the 'Directors' [CEO/whatever], the 'Accountant', and the 'Govt. Tax Office' - numbers would be disclosed.
However, only ONE of those 3 'entities' is entitled to divulge information to the public if he/she so WISHES...and it is not the Accountant, or the Tax Office. If they did they'd be out of a job quick-smart.
Private Business is EXACTLY that.
What I CAN tell you is that according to my records I have paid Stardock about US$50 or there-abouts...to help pay for Wincustomize.com [while getting neat Tee-shirts and CD compilations], and Stardock has paid for EVERYTHING you see here...and it's a LOT of money.....
Asking for financial statements from a private entity is both intrusive and rude. Would you care to post yours for our perusal?
I thought not...
Between the 'Directors' [CEO/whatever], the 'Accountant', and the 'Govt. Tax Office' - numbers would be disclosed.
However, only ONE of those 3 'entities' is entitled to divulge information to the public if he/she so WISHES...and it is not the Accountant, or the Tax Office. If they did they'd be out of a job quick-smart.
Private Business is EXACTLY that.
What I CAN tell you is that according to my records I have paid Stardock about US$50 or there-abouts...to help pay for Wincustomize.com [while getting neat Tee-shirts and CD compilations], and Stardock has paid for EVERYTHING you see here...and it's a LOT of money.....
Asking for financial statements from a private entity is both intrusive and rude. Would you care to post yours for our perusal?
I thought not...
Lecrayon
Reply #60 Saturday, June 1, 2002 8:52 AM
Reply #60 Saturday, June 1, 2002 8:52 AM
No, it's not rude. I can here ask for EVERY business the results they make. That is if they are registered at the chamber of commerce...IF I would have a business you could get my results on instant Jafo, but I haven't got one 
That's the way it is in this capitalistic world. And so it should be. However, if you run your business where for instance your own assets are a guarantee to the bank for loans, and you run it on your own you STILL have to be registered as a business, but you are able to withhold the resultys from the public. That only goes if ONE person run the business. IF you have personnel you are accountable for other people and you have to submit your results. Why I asked? I am not aware of how things are settled in the US, but it is certainly NOT rude and NOT intrusive. Far away from that.
That's the way it is in this capitalistic world. And so it should be. However, if you run your business where for instance your own assets are a guarantee to the bank for loans, and you run it on your own you STILL have to be registered as a business, but you are able to withhold the resultys from the public. That only goes if ONE person run the business. IF you have personnel you are accountable for other people and you have to submit your results. Why I asked? I am not aware of how things are settled in the US, but it is certainly NOT rude and NOT intrusive. Far away from that.Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #41 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:07 PM
Negative interpretation. I sometimes think if I said the sky is blue that someone would come out and say "Aha! I knew you were against sunsets!"
No one has to purchase a subscription. No one is forced. Chichigirl, I can only suggest that you reread what I've written without the "Brad is evil" eye glasses on. You want the benefits that come with being a WC subscriber, then subscribe. If those benefits aren't worth the money, then don't subscribe. As a skin author any limitations we impose on downloads won't affect you (anyone with apprentice access or higher is not going to be affected by download limitations).
Why is it that if someone criticizes the site, it's free speech but if you don't agree with the person who makes the critique you're somehow infringing on their rights? Davad has his opinion as do you. You have your right to post your opinions. I have my right to respectfully disagree. I am allowed to disagree and I can't help but be a bit offended that you see my disagreement as some sort of attack on your rights. I'm not some robot. I'm not the government. And neither are the other people who respectfully disagree with you.
Regarding WindowBlinds sales - obviously they're doing really well. Sales have really gone up since Windows XP came out. The launch of WinCustomize V2 is merely one example of the benefits of the increase popularity of WindowBlinds. However, one has to think of the future. We don't know if, for instance, WB will be a huge hit in 3 years from now. And I also simply think it's a matter of fairness, why should WindowBlinds customers and ODNT customers subsidize WinCustomize? How is this fair to them?
I don't think people realize that the majority of bandwidth used at WinCustomize is used by NON-customers of Stardock's products. If most of the bandwidth were used by customers of Object Desktop it would all be fine. If we had a million paying customers I'd be posting this from a private island.
I think everyone can agree that the best thing for WinCustomize in the long term is that it be independently viable. The best way for that is for the site to be able to pay for its bandwidth eventually.