I'm aggravated
Thursday, May 30, 2002 by davad70 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This is a quote from Frogboy taken from the following news item. https://www.wincustomize.com/index.asp?Cmd=full&NewsID=943
Similarly, I don''t see how skin authors think that they are doing the site a favor by allowing the site to HOST the skins.
So...is this the attitude of the mojority of the people in leadership postions here (admins/wizops) or is it just Frogboy?
Similarly, I don''t see how skin authors think that they are doing the site a favor by allowing the site to HOST the skins.
So...is this the attitude of the mojority of the people in leadership postions here (admins/wizops) or is it just Frogboy?
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craeonics
Reply #22 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:40 AM
Reply #22 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:40 AM
@#$%, importance. My god, I swear someone is filtering my posts, removing random characters in the progress...
Peff
Reply #23 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:57 AM
Reply #23 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:57 AM
Frogboy - There's no "some are more equal than others" here
Yet some have personal icons...and others (willing to pay for them) don't....
Yet some have personal icons...and others (willing to pay for them) don't....
DavidK
Reply #24 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:16 AM
Reply #24 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:16 AM
"Bytheway, Dave, that first post _was_ somewhat inflammatory." - craeonics
thanks for pointing that out crae... I didn't feel like even responding to this thread...
thanks for pointing that out crae... I didn't feel like even responding to this thread...
paxx
Reply #25 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:51 AM
Reply #25 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:51 AM
Scripts don't works that great. Problems happen: some sites are slow and time out, some links may change, servers crash, temporarely or permanently. For example, the link to a nice wallpaper displayed here may be replaced by a picture of Britney Spears naked, or even worse: a pirated copy of Windowblinds, and the script wouldn't think anything of it!! Of course, you could have the script to check for changes in file size, but then that means authors couldn't update their stuff. You would need a team of humains to daily check to errors reported by the script.
Or the links may still be good, but some skins may be hosted on a really slow site, downloading at 0.3k/sec. That would reflect on this site here.
A small site such as Talisman may take the chance and only link the skins, but a big site such as Wincusto will never have a choice. Oh, if it ever comes to it, try it, you'll break your nose.
I speak from experience. About 4 years ago, we provided links to a major portal, and we had a script that verified the links. Every day, I had to manualy check about 200 links reproted by the script. We eventually dropped the contract, after a while, when we had over 50,000 links to web sites, it was too much.
Or the links may still be good, but some skins may be hosted on a really slow site, downloading at 0.3k/sec. That would reflect on this site here.
A small site such as Talisman may take the chance and only link the skins, but a big site such as Wincusto will never have a choice. Oh, if it ever comes to it, try it, you'll break your nose.
I speak from experience. About 4 years ago, we provided links to a major portal, and we had a script that verified the links. Every day, I had to manualy check about 200 links reproted by the script. We eventually dropped the contract, after a while, when we had over 50,000 links to web sites, it was too much.
Lecrayon
Reply #26 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:45 AM
Reply #26 Friday, May 31, 2002 7:45 AM
I think I understand the dilemma of the people that have to maintain this site up and running...There isn't something like endless storage...To have to subscribe to WC is a first step to control costs..Good thing if you ask me...The more people subscribe the more chance this place will stay alive....But at the same time it is now an obligation to the running staff to keep it alive...I bet you won't get your money back if the site ceases to exist say halfway through your subscription...Like Jafo, I have no knowledge of any modern coding, but I too like to share what I produce...There is however a danger that this site becomes an elite thing Frogboy, and that is if storage capacities go down..Then you might be tempted to deny upload access to 'beginners' and rely on the top skinners...This danger is evident to me because who isn't tempted to treat a Queen with more respect than a sewercleaner...It is up to the staff to make this site a successful running one now that they ask money in return....And try to treat everyone with the same respect..whether these are people who visit and dowenload, who submit work, or people who have ideas to make this site even better than it is now.
Caylynn
Reply #27 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:29 AM
Reply #27 Friday, May 31, 2002 8:29 AM
Scripts don't work with the 'free host' problem. I'm a volunteer over at Zeal.com, which is a user-based directory. The 'Zealbot', and automatic script, checks whether sites are live and working on a regular basis. The problem is, many free hosts like GeoCities, have bandwidth caps, so the sites are going up and down all the time, depending on what time of the month it is, and how much bandwidth the site has eaten up.
Despite the fact that 'Zealbot' marks these sites are responsive or unresponsive, you still need a person to go in and check whether the site is still there, or whether its gone for good.
BTW, I agree with Jafo's take on this issue. I'm not a skinner, just a user, but if I ever manage to create a skin, I would be very thankful for the hosting provided by Wincustomize and other skinning sites.
Despite the fact that 'Zealbot' marks these sites are responsive or unresponsive, you still need a person to go in and check whether the site is still there, or whether its gone for good.
BTW, I agree with Jafo's take on this issue. I'm not a skinner, just a user, but if I ever manage to create a skin, I would be very thankful for the hosting provided by Wincustomize and other skinning sites.
Frogboy
Reply #28 Friday, May 31, 2002 1:32 PM
Reply #28 Friday, May 31, 2002 1:32 PM
I don't think skin authors should feel grateful or anything to sites hosting their skins. I hope that wasn't how I came across. I look at it as an co-equal relationship - sites get something out of it - skins which attract users. And the skin author gets somethign out of it - a reliable safe place to submit their skins.
There's so much behind the scenes work that users don't even know about that takes massive amounts of work. We have constant database replication, nearly daily backups of skins, etc. If the building these machines are located in blew up, your skins and the database would still be relatively safe (Within a week or so) because of the constant, behind the scenes replication and backups. A good skin site is like an ice berg, most people only see the peak of it, they don't see how much is involved behind the scenes.
Anyway, like I keep saying, my feeling is that all parts of our community should feel like co-equals in their relationship with one another. That's why I object to when some skin authors think they are doing a site a favor by allowing the site to host their skins because the relationship is two way, not one way.
There's so much behind the scenes work that users don't even know about that takes massive amounts of work. We have constant database replication, nearly daily backups of skins, etc. If the building these machines are located in blew up, your skins and the database would still be relatively safe (Within a week or so) because of the constant, behind the scenes replication and backups. A good skin site is like an ice berg, most people only see the peak of it, they don't see how much is involved behind the scenes.
Anyway, like I keep saying, my feeling is that all parts of our community should feel like co-equals in their relationship with one another. That's why I object to when some skin authors think they are doing a site a favor by allowing the site to host their skins because the relationship is two way, not one way.
adni18
Reply #29 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:51 PM
Reply #29 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:51 PM
As you said Frogboy, "We all need each other" and "the relationship is two way, not one way".
This is fair! As always
This is fair! As always
paxx
Reply #30 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:03 PM
Reply #30 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:03 PM
Yes, I agree with that.
No one is doing anyone a service.
Because skinning should be fun.
No one is doing anyone a service.
Because skinning should be fun.
Mike Divine
Reply #31 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:34 PM
Reply #31 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:34 PM
Now I see that we are ALL getting on the same road to TEAM work. As FrogBoy said, what you see on the net is JUST A SMALL PART of a web site. This site is one of the best run I have seen, and I deal with backround workings of web sites for a living. I came to this site three months back while looking for a way to change the way XP looked. I AM SURE GLAD I FOUND THIS SITE and the GREAT people that are here......
Mike
Mike
chichigirl46
Reply #32 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:46 PM
Reply #32 Friday, May 31, 2002 4:46 PM
I'm not putting anyone here @ WC down for their devoted work, nor do I think davad70 is neither...... were Not "puppets" and have a right to express how we feel with out being accused of starting a flame, I don't see that davad70 has started a flame in his thread here, just conversation and how he feels...
But "equal" by frogboy , is an understatement above here....... I have read the news on the front page, as follows:
Nearly a million unique individuals visited WinCustomize this month. The site's faster performance allowed more people to be on at once. BY frogboy
Referrals continue to be the lifeblood of WinCustomize. Half the people who visit this site visit via bookmarks or from a link via software (like WindowBlinds). The other half come here from another site. Most people who come from other sites come from Stardock (WindowBlinds.net, Stardock.com, CursorXP.com, Winstyles.com, DesktopX.net were the top 5 referring sites. Also BY Frogboy......
hmmmmm why the need for the skinners who support this site in many ways have to pay a subscription for bandwidth used by almost 1 million visitors (must have purchased some kind of stardock product and interest in getting their offer of free skins) and all referrals (top 5 sites) must use a lot of the bandwidth...... why not when purchasing "any" of Stardock products you include the bandwidth cost for each user, since Stardock's skin library was moved here from day one that this site was born???
I also did not pay for my own site to be linked too by any one for downloads of Windowblind skins, I did it on behalf of the programs" I support ", which I may now be removing since the statements made by frogboy
I have been reading ALL of frogboys comments on this message board not just this thread, and News page and have picked up on a lot of interesting comments anf information said by frogboy ........ I for one have been hurt by Stardock/Wincustomize/Frogboy attitude towards all skinners, so to speak my bubble has been bursted..... I LOVE my windowblinds but I won't continue to support it any longer unless things change for the skinners...........
But "equal" by frogboy , is an understatement above here....... I have read the news on the front page, as follows:
Nearly a million unique individuals visited WinCustomize this month. The site's faster performance allowed more people to be on at once. BY frogboy
Referrals continue to be the lifeblood of WinCustomize. Half the people who visit this site visit via bookmarks or from a link via software (like WindowBlinds). The other half come here from another site. Most people who come from other sites come from Stardock (WindowBlinds.net, Stardock.com, CursorXP.com, Winstyles.com, DesktopX.net were the top 5 referring sites. Also BY Frogboy......
hmmmmm why the need for the skinners who support this site in many ways have to pay a subscription for bandwidth used by almost 1 million visitors (must have purchased some kind of stardock product and interest in getting their offer of free skins) and all referrals (top 5 sites) must use a lot of the bandwidth...... why not when purchasing "any" of Stardock products you include the bandwidth cost for each user, since Stardock's skin library was moved here from day one that this site was born???
I also did not pay for my own site to be linked too by any one for downloads of Windowblind skins, I did it on behalf of the programs" I support ", which I may now be removing since the statements made by frogboy
I have been reading ALL of frogboys comments on this message board not just this thread, and News page and have picked up on a lot of interesting comments anf information said by frogboy ........ I for one have been hurt by Stardock/Wincustomize/Frogboy attitude towards all skinners, so to speak my bubble has been bursted..... I LOVE my windowblinds but I won't continue to support it any longer unless things change for the skinners...........
Lecrayon
Reply #33 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:03 PM
Reply #33 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:03 PM
WOW chichi 
You know...everything in this world is about MONEY...It is sad but true..I WISH MONEY DIDNT EXIST!! Basically you have to ask yourself: Do you want to have a different colour on your screen every day? To me skinning is a luxury thing and now I've got all the skinners angry at me
You know...everything in this world is about MONEY...It is sad but true..I WISH MONEY DIDNT EXIST!! Basically you have to ask yourself: Do you want to have a different colour on your screen every day? To me skinning is a luxury thing and now I've got all the skinners angry at me
Lecrayon
Reply #35 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:28 PM
Reply #35 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:28 PM
A painful thought about this struck me...The growth of selling the WB has ceased...All that is left is subscription to OD...The next oil for the car is WC subscription....If WC can't be supported by OD anymore then there is fundamentally something wrong with its businessplan.
WOM
Reply #36 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:37 PM
Reply #36 Friday, May 31, 2002 5:37 PM
I find this funny. I want my cake and I want to eat it to. The only place you can do that, is at home. Nothing in this world is free. If some skinners want to test the open market, let them remove their skins. I'll bet that this site will survive. The new skinners will develope and produce great skins. So I don't think a few dollars will break the bank and it will give you a place to upload your skins. So lets all join together and become a team.
Lecrayon
Reply #37 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:09 PM
Reply #37 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:09 PM
And why is nothing free? Because someone fools you it isnt...Soon we have to pay for fresh air too!
Blah!
Blah!
GreenReaper
Reply #40 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:29 PM
Reply #40 Friday, May 31, 2002 6:29 PM
Lecrayon: Frogboy said "if", and "in the future" - he didn't say that WB had stopped selling well. From the volume of posts on the WB newsgroups I'm pretty sure sales are going as strong as always.
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Reply #21 Friday, May 31, 2002 3:39 AM
Bytheway, Dave, that first post _was_ somewhat inflammatory. I was expecting to see a flame.