I'm aggravated

Thursday, May 30, 2002 by davad70 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

This is a quote from Frogboy taken from the following news item. https://www.wincustomize.com/index.asp?Cmd=full&NewsID=943

Similarly, I don''t see how skin authors think that they are doing the site a favor by allowing the site to HOST the skins.

So...is this the attitude of the mojority of the people in leadership postions here (admins/wizops) or is it just Frogboy?
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Lecrayon
Reply #61 Saturday, June 1, 2002 9:02 AM
In case of supporting this site and the great cool programs that it delivers you could easily check what I have done, what I subscribed to and what I have bought. And also check the dates and the start of some threads. Just to ease your curiosity and my honest behaviour. As it comes to subscribe to WC and get a year of guaranteed access..I havent gotten an answer about what happens if the site closes halfway, I bet my subscription isn't returned for 50%..So IF you want to subscribe, people may want to have a look at the healthyness of the business. Cold hard facts. No promo's by staff of any other who are biased, just a way to decide for yourself if it is worth the money. To get a program like skinbrowser and say that that alone is worth the subscription...It isn't if the site closes down..You get the idea? If you ask for money to maintain a site, people want to have guarantees in exchange of cold hard facts. Nothiong more, nothing less. Not intrusive, just a means of being able to have a judgement of your own about the continuity of the business...Not rude, just the american way. Bang for your buck all the way.

Jafo
Reply #62 Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:07 AM
OK, so you wish to know intimate details of a Company's financial status in order to ascertain whether it is 'safe' to pay $20 for a subscription to a site on the net?
Sounds logical.

So the concept of providing simple financial support...to give a little 'back', in appreciation for what you have been allowed to 'take'....requires Financial Statements....an audit perhaps for the last financial year?

The guy on the corner with the tin cup....he better have a bank statement pinned to his forehead....just in case someone doubts his status and wants to know what he's been doing with the dimes and quarters...

I'll refrain from further comment...and leave it to Stardock to respond....

Lecrayon
Reply #63 Saturday, June 1, 2002 10:24 AM
Blah Jafo you know that's beside the issue...My question isn't answered...business is business..no suppport but buy and deliver, that;s about it.

jcg
Reply #64 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:14 AM
Lecrayon - you didn't have to plunk down the $20. The subscription is voluntary, the site is open to use whether you pay the money or not. I don't know what point you're trying to make. Do you ask Kraft for a prospectus every time you buy cheese?

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skinner7892
Reply #65 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:31 AM
"Love is in the air, everywhere I look around..."

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DavidK
Reply #66 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:36 AM
Lecrayon - I wouldn't expect any busineaa to respond to a question like yours in a forum like this. Especially in a thread like this one. As with any business, if you want financial information about the company, you should send a request in writing to their business office. As far as I know, there's no requirement that they respond....

DavidK
Reply #67 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:40 AM
hmmm... how did I hit the 'a' key instead of two ss's? I'm sure it's just a typo and I wasn't subconsciously trying to spell something else...

Lecrayon
Reply #68 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:46 AM
DavidK, it got out of hand, I admit...I asked where I could find such info, I explained how it is done here in NL, asked just how rules are about that point in the US and assumed it was a bit alike our system...never got any answers and sooo....

Lecrayon
Reply #69 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:49 AM
and sooo...the question still stands..and email adresses are available I believe

moshi
Reply #70 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:49 AM
DavidK: you probably couldn´t resist to download Babya System. now you got the results ....

Frogboy
Reply #71 Saturday, June 1, 2002 11:51 AM
. No lacrayon, in the United States, private companies are the same as private individuals. They don't have to disclose anything.

It's irrelevant anyway. It's what one would call a strawman argument. It is hard to argue that Object Desktop (and components) customers should subsidize non-customers unlimited downloading indefinitely.

In my view, anyone who has downloaded more than 50 megs of stuff from this site should, at the very least, have an Object Desktop subscription, if not a WinCustomize subscription or be a skin author or active contributor in some other way.

jcg
Reply #72 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:01 PM
Besides, the information you are requesting is made available for investment purposes, not routine purchases. Because Stardock is a private company, disclosure is not necessary.

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Lecrayon
Reply #73 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:22 PM
finally the info, thank you...See? that wasn't too hard..Reading is so awfully difficult and so many times people pick one line, make a fuzz out of it and forget the overall situation...I accept the way how you see it Frogboy, I too would think subsidizing non-customers would be out of the question..Anyway, I happen to think it's a sales argument against a strawman one (whatever that means). You are in your right to run your own company the way you think is best and to promote it the way you want it. the programs are cool and the site is technically so good I take a deep bow for that achievement. I happen to think a bit different about this costcontrolling argument but then again the profits I would make will be lower than average

joetheblow
Reply #74 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:31 PM
True. It is a 2 way street. It is only nice. My goodness... so much drama..... in the end, it still has to be a 2 way street. I personally do not mind subsidizing non-customers. I really feel this is a good product and the more productive input the better. The more skins the better. Unlimited downloading for non-customers... well if the limit is 70 a month then so what. I do not think anyone will notice. I get more skins, Stardock gets more people, and the cycle goes on.

joetheblow
Reply #75 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:37 PM
more skins, more people, more people invited to skin, more people have skins on there desktop, more people see the skins, more people buy the product, more people download for free, more skins, more people, more people invited to skin.......


joetheblow
Reply #76 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:40 PM
..... interested companies in designed skins become more popular.... more skins...... more downloads.....

my goodness, when does it end???

Lecrayon
Reply #77 Saturday, June 1, 2002 12:48 PM
there are non-customers and non-customers A non-cutomer is someone that looks at the shopwindow and there comes out the shopowner and hands him $20,- a non-customer is someone that goes into the shop, looks around, stirs with items on shelves and leaves again without buying. Those you have to try to get asway from the shopfloor in order to transfer them into a non-customer

paxx
Reply #78 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:28 PM
I don't know how it works in the US, but here in Canada, companies that are public (have stocks on the stock market) have to make their financial statements public. Otherwise privately owned companies don't have to. It's probably the same in the US, ans AFAIK Stardock isn't on the share market.

Frogboy
Reply #79 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:50 PM
Let me give you some statistics.

As we've been looking at adding new features for users such as the ability to subscribe to threads and skins (for comments) and other things we also added bytes downloaded. This was partially designed so that no one could easiy "stuff" the ballot by downloading their own skins over and over to get a higher ranking.

But in the process we learned some starting things. There are many users who have downloaded over a GIGABYTE of skins/themes from this site. And most of them are not Stardock customers in any form.

Now, I imagine most people don't have a problem with some guy/gal coming on and casually downloading some skins and themes or walls even if they've regretably chosen not to register software. However, downloading a GIG?

Let me put it in perspective, I've obviously been here since day 1, I download many skins each day, every day of all kinds. I've only downloaded 100 megabytes of stuff in all that time. I think you'd all agree that I'm no casual user. So anyone who's downloaded more than 100 megs (let alone a GIG) is certainly not some casual window shopper.

>100megs is the guy who's in the bookstore having taken most of the books off the shelf and read them right there.

Frogboy
Reply #80 Saturday, June 1, 2002 2:52 PM
And just to be clear, anyone who is a subscriber of Object Desktop or WinCustomize should be encouraged to download to their heart's content. Just not the people using a warez/shareware copy.


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