World Trade Center Disaster
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 by T-Man | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I'm deeply depressed over the attacks on the World Trade Center building and The Pentagon.
And I just want to take a moment and express my sympathy for all those who have died and are injured.
I would also like to extend my prayers that this most unfortunate incidenent does not lead to a war or further casualties.
This is just a horrible event and my emotions are filled with rage, sorrow, disbelief, fear and concern just to tip it off.
I pray to God that there are no more attacks and that our world leaders will make good decisions and keep peace!
And I just want to take a moment and express my sympathy for all those who have died and are injured.
I would also like to extend my prayers that this most unfortunate incidenent does not lead to a war or further casualties.
This is just a horrible event and my emotions are filled with rage, sorrow, disbelief, fear and concern just to tip it off.
I pray to God that there are no more attacks and that our world leaders will make good decisions and keep peace!
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paxx
Reply #42 Friday, September 14, 2001 12:23 PM
Reply #42 Friday, September 14, 2001 12:23 PM
Oh, when I say I fear, I mean I fear for the planet. Of course I fear for the majority of innocent arab people who have nothing to do with all of this, I fear also for the innocent Americans who are yet to suffer more terrorist attacks. I fear also for the planetary war that might follow if the next strike is too severe. I fear about the nuclear that might be used. I fear for the existance of any lifeform on this planet.
Frogboy
Reply #43 Friday, September 14, 2001 1:41 PM
Reply #43 Friday, September 14, 2001 1:41 PM
There won't just be a strike. The United States is mobilizing for war as we speak. The government just activated the reserves today. There won't be a single strike, it is going to be a prolonged campaign that will likely take years.
Colin Powell yesterday basically set up the way it's going to work. Countries with terrorist training camps in them will be approached to eliminate the problem themselves. If they do not, the US will 1) Take care of the problem for them and 2) Move to replace the government with one more civilized.
I don't think people outside the US have grasped that the United States is not viewing this as a law enforcement problem, it is viewing this as a war. We're not talking some air strikes, we're talking sending in ground troops to either blockade or invade nation states that harbor terrorists.
And the nations that may have US and international invervention (remember, this isn't the US versus the world, this is the world versus a handful of rogue nations who aid and harbor terrorists) would be conquered and have their governments replaced much as what we done with Japan and Germany.
One foreign policy expert yesterday pointed out that the only way to win for the long term is to change the cultures of this countries. To de-fanatacize them. When the US occupied Japan and Germany, it turned them into peaceful countries right down to the culture.
If they had had the Internet in 1941, I doubt anyone here would guess that years later, Japan would have Japan Disney and Mickey Mouse being their favorite cartoon character. Japan Disney does more business than Disney World in Florida. Cocacola is their favorite soft drink. American pop stars are their favorite musicians.
This is what is being discussed. The only way to win this in the long haul is for us to turn these enemies of the United States into us. Us being Western Europeans/Americans.
And before you think such plans absurd or extreme, I merely point to history where it is exactly how the Allies handled World War II. We turned the Japanese and Germans into us. And the people are happier for it.
And again, before someone points out that one cannot turn these fanatics into us. Read up on Nazism. You can't get much more fanatical than the Hitler youth was.
These countries in the Middle east will have to either abolish terrorism on their own or they will face the international community's determination to forever eliminate not just the terrorists but the culture that breeds terrorism. Don't think it can't be done, it's been done before when it was far more daunting to do so.
Colin Powell yesterday basically set up the way it's going to work. Countries with terrorist training camps in them will be approached to eliminate the problem themselves. If they do not, the US will 1) Take care of the problem for them and 2) Move to replace the government with one more civilized.
I don't think people outside the US have grasped that the United States is not viewing this as a law enforcement problem, it is viewing this as a war. We're not talking some air strikes, we're talking sending in ground troops to either blockade or invade nation states that harbor terrorists.
And the nations that may have US and international invervention (remember, this isn't the US versus the world, this is the world versus a handful of rogue nations who aid and harbor terrorists) would be conquered and have their governments replaced much as what we done with Japan and Germany.
One foreign policy expert yesterday pointed out that the only way to win for the long term is to change the cultures of this countries. To de-fanatacize them. When the US occupied Japan and Germany, it turned them into peaceful countries right down to the culture.
If they had had the Internet in 1941, I doubt anyone here would guess that years later, Japan would have Japan Disney and Mickey Mouse being their favorite cartoon character. Japan Disney does more business than Disney World in Florida. Cocacola is their favorite soft drink. American pop stars are their favorite musicians.
This is what is being discussed. The only way to win this in the long haul is for us to turn these enemies of the United States into us. Us being Western Europeans/Americans.
And before you think such plans absurd or extreme, I merely point to history where it is exactly how the Allies handled World War II. We turned the Japanese and Germans into us. And the people are happier for it.
And again, before someone points out that one cannot turn these fanatics into us. Read up on Nazism. You can't get much more fanatical than the Hitler youth was.
These countries in the Middle east will have to either abolish terrorism on their own or they will face the international community's determination to forever eliminate not just the terrorists but the culture that breeds terrorism. Don't think it can't be done, it's been done before when it was far more daunting to do so.
paxx
Reply #44 Friday, September 14, 2001 2:07 PM
Reply #44 Friday, September 14, 2001 2:07 PM
Let the harbouring countries deal with it themselves: smart. Indeed.
But there is something a little disturbing about the way you say Japan and Germany has been "turned into us". Japan and Germany are indeed happy democracies now, thanks to the United Nations' intendance. Japanese and Germans people were never turned into Americans...
I think I agree with the meaning of what you said, just maybe not with the specific words you chose.
But there is something a little disturbing about the way you say Japan and Germany has been "turned into us". Japan and Germany are indeed happy democracies now, thanks to the United Nations' intendance. Japanese and Germans people were never turned into Americans...
I think I agree with the meaning of what you said, just maybe not with the specific words you chose.
paxx
Reply #45 Friday, September 14, 2001 2:40 PM
Reply #45 Friday, September 14, 2001 2:40 PM
Man... wrong, paxx (buzzer sound). Japan was indeed occupied by the US until 1952 when Japan regained full sovereignty.
Germany was divided into 4 zomes, occupied by France, England, the US (West Germany) and the USSR (East Germany). West Germany gained full independance in 1955.
But still, my main point was that both Germans and Japanese kept their beautiful cultures.
Germany was divided into 4 zomes, occupied by France, England, the US (West Germany) and the USSR (East Germany). West Germany gained full independance in 1955.
But still, my main point was that both Germans and Japanese kept their beautiful cultures.
migellito
Reply #46 Friday, September 14, 2001 5:23 PM
Reply #46 Friday, September 14, 2001 5:23 PM
true, but alot of their basic, core attitude about life changed dramatically.
Frogboy
Reply #47 Friday, September 14, 2001 5:28 PM
Reply #47 Friday, September 14, 2001 5:28 PM
The cultures of Germany and Japan were fundamentally changed. Japan loves Mickey mouse and Coca Cola and Levi's jeans. Their defeat and occupation allowed us to instill our cultural views on them.
If you disagree, I suggest you look at the Japanese and German culture of say 1935 and then look at it again in 1955.
If you disagree, I suggest you look at the Japanese and German culture of say 1935 and then look at it again in 1955.
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Reply #41 Friday, September 14, 2001 11:49 AM
i suspect that it could well work for a nation, but i suspect that it may not work against the fanatics.
my concern is that it could drive others in the suffering nation to the fanatics
if the fanatics are not being supported by a nation, then it would be nice to think that they wont be able to act, but i doubt that is the case. at a very basic level all this required was a handfull of people, and minimal tools for the act its self. i dont know what support they required, but a quote from the book 2001 comes to mind:
"you can make a system proof against mistakes, but you can never make a system proof against sabotarge"
however, i dont know what to suggest in its place, which is an unsettling thought