Registered your software?
Wednesday, August 8, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just curious how many people downloading skins and such here have registered the program they're downloading skins for.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
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Frogboy
Reply #62 Monday, August 13, 2001 2:31 AM
Reply #62 Monday, August 13, 2001 2:31 AM
Who's mad at Doreen? And why would anyone be mad at Doreen? How can anyone be mad at Doreen? Oye, time for bed.
Jafo
Reply #63 Monday, August 13, 2001 3:43 AM
Reply #63 Monday, August 13, 2001 3:43 AM
Well....I'm mad at Doreen....she got me into this ICQ thing...then is almost never on it...
paxx
Reply #64 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:27 AM
Reply #64 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:27 AM
Tandis: they were here before LOS existed. So why did they feel the need to go somewhere else? If it would have been anybody else, I don't say... But those tweo where fanatics in my mind. I remember thinking "Come on guys, Stardock isn't the end of the World and Brad isn't God!"
Why are they admins at LOS now?
Anyway, myself, as I said in another thread: I was pissed off at first, but now I accepted what the site is. For it is NOT a community site, it is a Stardock-community site, and therefore, yes, as listed on LOS a company site. And that's OK with me, once I accepted that for a fact.
Why are they admins at LOS now?
Anyway, myself, as I said in another thread: I was pissed off at first, but now I accepted what the site is. For it is NOT a community site, it is a Stardock-community site, and therefore, yes, as listed on LOS a company site. And that's OK with me, once I accepted that for a fact.
Frank Leon
Reply #65 Monday, August 13, 2001 3:44 PM
Reply #65 Monday, August 13, 2001 3:44 PM
This site is just as mcuh as 'community' site as any other place. who the hell gets to decide what a 'community' site is?
paxx
Reply #67 Monday, August 13, 2001 4:10 PM
Reply #67 Monday, August 13, 2001 4:10 PM
No, seriously. In my mind, and in most people's mind, the word "community" excludes profit and cannot be biased to any specific product.
Pretty much the same as the real world's definition of "community". People who work for the community usually don't work at MacDonald's or in the local theater, even if those are indeed places where people in the community go to...
Pretty much the same as the real world's definition of "community". People who work for the community usually don't work at MacDonald's or in the local theater, even if those are indeed places where people in the community go to...
Doreen
Reply #68 Monday, August 13, 2001 4:24 PM
Reply #68 Monday, August 13, 2001 4:24 PM
Now what did I do???
(actually ppl are always mad at me)
hehe Jafo what? you miss me on icq?
I'm opening it "right" now to look for "you"!!!
(actually ppl are always mad at me)
hehe Jafo what? you miss me on icq?
I'm opening it "right" now to look for "you"!!!
Frank Leon
Reply #69 Monday, August 13, 2001 5:02 PM
Reply #69 Monday, August 13, 2001 5:02 PM
So do you and a group of 'key users' decide what these definitions are? Skinz.org was a for profit site. I guess skinz.og wasn't a community site.
Jafo
Reply #70 Monday, August 13, 2001 5:51 PM
Reply #70 Monday, August 13, 2001 5:51 PM
Frank....'skinz.og' was the stone-age 'skinz.org'.....back then, the skinz were real skins.....when men were men, and sheep were nervous...
Istari
Reply #71 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:20 PM
Reply #71 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:20 PM
I'm not mad at Doreen, Master Crumbut. If anyone is angry or upset it's you.
And if we're gonna take sides,where one side are the software pirates leeching skins like MP3s and warez and on the other side people who contribute to the community and don't steal their software I am proud to be on the latter's side.
It's also laughable for somebody to try to make whether a site makes money part of the criteria for being a community site in the wake of eFront which owned Skinz.org, THE community skin site for a long time. So let's cut with the historical revisionism.
And if we're gonna take sides,where one side are the software pirates leeching skins like MP3s and warez and on the other side people who contribute to the community and don't steal their software I am proud to be on the latter's side.
It's also laughable for somebody to try to make whether a site makes money part of the criteria for being a community site in the wake of eFront which owned Skinz.org, THE community skin site for a long time. So let's cut with the historical revisionism.
craeonics
Reply #72 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:49 PM
Reply #72 Monday, August 13, 2001 6:49 PM
I think why skinz.org is getting dragged into this and regarded as a community site as opposed to this site as a "corporate" site, is because this site has a heavy StarDock feel. I didn't have a thirty4 feel with skinz.org. Skinz.org was skinz.org, no strings attached (that is, no visible strings). An example of strings attached here is the no-Hoverdesk policy (though that's the only thing I can come up with now). Note that I do not see this as a company site myself. More a skins site (dare I say "community"?) with a strong company presence.
One notable difference between this site and skinz is that things are more open here. We get to hear what's going on behind the scenes, opinions are asked and such. In all those years (both of 'em) that I hopped on to skinz.org, I never had any idea what was going on behind the scene and nothing really notably changed over time. Maybe the admins should just do what they think is best and let us bitchers and moaners boil in our own fat (and that's a Dutch saying)?
Another thing (going slightly off topic now) is the role of Froggy. He is not an admin nor has he anything to do with this site (right?). Yet everyone treats him like he runs this site and a lot of times he is the one giving the lowdown on the site and its status. Confusing.
jafo> Hey, "sheep" is my word! Or are that your Tasmanian roots emerging?
One notable difference between this site and skinz is that things are more open here. We get to hear what's going on behind the scenes, opinions are asked and such. In all those years (both of 'em) that I hopped on to skinz.org, I never had any idea what was going on behind the scene and nothing really notably changed over time. Maybe the admins should just do what they think is best and let us bitchers and moaners boil in our own fat (and that's a Dutch saying)?
Another thing (going slightly off topic now) is the role of Froggy. He is not an admin nor has he anything to do with this site (right?). Yet everyone treats him like he runs this site and a lot of times he is the one giving the lowdown on the site and its status. Confusing.
jafo> Hey, "sheep" is my word! Or are that your Tasmanian roots emerging?
Frogboy
Reply #73 Monday, August 13, 2001 7:44 PM
Reply #73 Monday, August 13, 2001 7:44 PM
Crae has some good points.
Naivete isn't restricted to just some skinners. I'm naive too.
After what happened with Skinz.org with eFront, we decided that when we put up WinCustomize we would put everything on view. No secrets.
We'd let users know how many visitors the site gets. Where they come from. How much bandwidth is used. How that bandwidth is distributed. How much the site costs. What ideas we had for the site. Get people's input on directions for the site.
And of course, the result has been somewhat disastrous. You'd think we were now charging users to download. I'm a slow learner (as T-man would say). I'll put out an idea to see what people think and expect some constructive discussion. Afterall, that's what we do in the Stardock groups all the time. We had a discussion on price increases for Object Desktop for instance there. Price INCREASES mind you. Not one flame. Not one melodramatic crazed response from anyone.
So what causes this difference? The problem is that we're used to people trusting us. And for whatever reason, the skin "community" just doesn't want to trust any companies no matter how benevolent they are. So I'll put out an idea to get views and suddenly histerical responses will be made as if such an idea was not only goin gto be implemented, but had already been implemented.
Whereas on the Stardock news groups, our users trust us. They know from years of experience that we do care what people say and do take what they think into consideration. The software we've created wasn't designed soley by some tiny group of Stardock engineers but by our community of users.
But in the skinning "community" you have a decent chunk of users reading everything we say as new evil ways we're out to screw the little guy.
That's the naivete that we really have to get over. That there will always be some vocal percentage of users who will believe the worst no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.
And hence, instead of having gropus of rational people trying to solve a problem (we have X bandwidth but Y bandwidth is being used where Y is greater than X, we need to find a way of either increasing X or decreasing Y) it's a bucnh of unconstructive shooting down of ideas and vague, pie in the sky "everything should be free and corporations are evil" mush.
So clearly, the solution is to discuss iddeas for the site on the news groups if we want constructive suggestions and simply implement them here. And to blow off discussions (We could have just blown off the Hoverdesk question and it would have died. So answering honestly and openly suddenly makes WC the "bad guy".
Ultimately, we will never have 1 vision of "the community". I don't think of "the community" as the 2 dozen active posters on a couple of websites. The 400,000 unique visitors to this site are nominally part of the community. Even if 99% of them are discounted, that's still 4,000 people. They are part of the community in my view. Economics, politics, whatever have nothing to do with "the community". In my view, "the skinning community" is made up of people who, for whatever reason, choose to spend their time creating or using skins.
BTW, for those of you who chaffe at long posts (another unique issue to "the community") this post would be considered short in other discussion groups.
But I'm sure there's a "What song are you listening to right now" post waiting another response somewhere...
Naivete isn't restricted to just some skinners. I'm naive too.
After what happened with Skinz.org with eFront, we decided that when we put up WinCustomize we would put everything on view. No secrets.
We'd let users know how many visitors the site gets. Where they come from. How much bandwidth is used. How that bandwidth is distributed. How much the site costs. What ideas we had for the site. Get people's input on directions for the site.
And of course, the result has been somewhat disastrous. You'd think we were now charging users to download. I'm a slow learner (as T-man would say). I'll put out an idea to see what people think and expect some constructive discussion. Afterall, that's what we do in the Stardock groups all the time. We had a discussion on price increases for Object Desktop for instance there. Price INCREASES mind you. Not one flame. Not one melodramatic crazed response from anyone.
So what causes this difference? The problem is that we're used to people trusting us. And for whatever reason, the skin "community" just doesn't want to trust any companies no matter how benevolent they are. So I'll put out an idea to get views and suddenly histerical responses will be made as if such an idea was not only goin gto be implemented, but had already been implemented.
Whereas on the Stardock news groups, our users trust us. They know from years of experience that we do care what people say and do take what they think into consideration. The software we've created wasn't designed soley by some tiny group of Stardock engineers but by our community of users.
But in the skinning "community" you have a decent chunk of users reading everything we say as new evil ways we're out to screw the little guy.
That's the naivete that we really have to get over. That there will always be some vocal percentage of users who will believe the worst no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.
And hence, instead of having gropus of rational people trying to solve a problem (we have X bandwidth but Y bandwidth is being used where Y is greater than X, we need to find a way of either increasing X or decreasing Y) it's a bucnh of unconstructive shooting down of ideas and vague, pie in the sky "everything should be free and corporations are evil" mush.
So clearly, the solution is to discuss iddeas for the site on the news groups if we want constructive suggestions and simply implement them here. And to blow off discussions (We could have just blown off the Hoverdesk question and it would have died. So answering honestly and openly suddenly makes WC the "bad guy".
Ultimately, we will never have 1 vision of "the community". I don't think of "the community" as the 2 dozen active posters on a couple of websites. The 400,000 unique visitors to this site are nominally part of the community. Even if 99% of them are discounted, that's still 4,000 people. They are part of the community in my view. Economics, politics, whatever have nothing to do with "the community". In my view, "the skinning community" is made up of people who, for whatever reason, choose to spend their time creating or using skins.
BTW, for those of you who chaffe at long posts (another unique issue to "the community") this post would be considered short in other discussion groups.
But I'm sure there's a "What song are you listening to right now" post waiting another response somewhere...
Im listening too...
craeonics
Reply #75 Monday, August 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Reply #75 Monday, August 13, 2001 8:10 PM
I'm listening to CNN actually, god knows why.
Oh wait... ahum....
Oh wait... ahum....
pjpowell
Reply #76 Monday, August 13, 2001 9:35 PM
Reply #76 Monday, August 13, 2001 9:35 PM
Umm, crae :
> Another thing (going slightly off topic now) is > the role of Froggy. He is not an admin nor has > he anything to do with this site (right?).
Froggy is an admin. Not sure why you think he isn't. Just look at the bottom of his posts :
by Admin Frogboy
If you were making some kind of joke and I missed it I apologise. It's late here.
> Another thing (going slightly off topic now) is > the role of Froggy. He is not an admin nor has > he anything to do with this site (right?).
Froggy is an admin. Not sure why you think he isn't. Just look at the bottom of his posts :
by Admin Frogboy
If you were making some kind of joke and I missed it I apologise. It's late here.
paxx
Reply #77 Monday, August 13, 2001 9:51 PM
Reply #77 Monday, August 13, 2001 9:51 PM
I don't know what some people feel defensive because I say that WC is a Stardock site. What's wrong with that? Why feel defensive about that? And when I asy that it's not a community site, how is that bad? Why try to fight and insist that it is? MacDonald is not a community food outlet, but it doesn't make MacDonald evil... does it?
And again, the fact that there is what, 4 billion served or something, does that make MacDonald more a community food outlet? I don't think so.
Wincusto doesn't have the purpose of serving the community. No, Wincustomize has for objective to generate money for Stardock. If anything that could happen here conflicts with that fact, it won't happen. As simple as that. Again, let me say it again: and there is nothing wrong with that.
It's actually quite amazing how things stop to offend you when you look at it from another perspective. No Hoverdesk here? I'm okay with that, cause I understand it conflicts with Stardock. Same for Themebar, same for CustomEyes, same for E-Icons...Same with any application or any decision that would interefere with Stardock's financial interests. I AM OKAY WITH THAT. If it was even suggested that people should pay for a premium service on this site, I would be okay with that. I will be okay with just about anything decided by Stardock, because it is their site and they can do what they please.
Oh, and just a little comment about company newsgroups: not the same situation as here because people going to any software newsgroups are usually already fanatics about the product. The regular Joe does usually spend his days on companies USENET servers. That is except from the occasional flamer who steps in types in capital letters that the company and/or the product sucks, and steps out never coming back again. So, since on this site, we are more common people not necessarely dedicated to Stardock products, it's normal there is more discussion going on.
Usenet and websites: two different worlds. Neither are good or bad, they are just very different.
And again, the fact that there is what, 4 billion served or something, does that make MacDonald more a community food outlet? I don't think so.
Wincusto doesn't have the purpose of serving the community. No, Wincustomize has for objective to generate money for Stardock. If anything that could happen here conflicts with that fact, it won't happen. As simple as that. Again, let me say it again: and there is nothing wrong with that.
It's actually quite amazing how things stop to offend you when you look at it from another perspective. No Hoverdesk here? I'm okay with that, cause I understand it conflicts with Stardock. Same for Themebar, same for CustomEyes, same for E-Icons...Same with any application or any decision that would interefere with Stardock's financial interests. I AM OKAY WITH THAT. If it was even suggested that people should pay for a premium service on this site, I would be okay with that. I will be okay with just about anything decided by Stardock, because it is their site and they can do what they please.
Oh, and just a little comment about company newsgroups: not the same situation as here because people going to any software newsgroups are usually already fanatics about the product. The regular Joe does usually spend his days on companies USENET servers. That is except from the occasional flamer who steps in types in capital letters that the company and/or the product sucks, and steps out never coming back again. So, since on this site, we are more common people not necessarely dedicated to Stardock products, it's normal there is more discussion going on.
Usenet and websites: two different worlds. Neither are good or bad, they are just very different.
Frogboy
Reply #78 Monday, August 13, 2001 11:30 PM
Reply #78 Monday, August 13, 2001 11:30 PM
Good post Paxx.
If you want to know my beef it's this:
If some individual puts up a skin site, it's because they're just a good guy. But if a company sponsers one, it has to be purely for money.
Isn't that what you're saying? That you actually somehow believe that WinCustomize is purely a capitalistic effort?
Sorry Paxx, but sometimes companies, especially fairly small ones, do things for the same reasons that individuals do. They think something si cool, they want to help others, and they have the ability to do it.
Not everything is black and white. If my neighbor is moving, I'll help them move. But I won't help them move if they are moving during a time on vacation or have to go to work. Does that make me an unhelpful person? I don't think so. It just means I'm not universally going to be able to help my neighbors.
Does WinCustomize support the community? Sure it does. Is it going to harm itself so that it can satisfy a handful of users who demand absolute neutrality for no other real reason than just for the principle of the matter? No. Does that make WinCustomize a non-community site? Of course not.
There are lots of companies out there that actually do good deeds that are not necessarily economically justified. If having a skin site was a great business move, all the other commercial skinning programs would have started skin sites or at least have their own skin library. But the fact is, it's much cheaper to point to some skin site (like we did with skinz.org) and send users there saving the company the expense.
So don't try to kid yourself that WinCustomize exists as some sort of master marketing or sales strategy. It exists to try to help the "community". But not to the point of really doing self-harm. It exists because we like skins and icons and themes. I'm writing this at 11:29pm at home. Are you going to somehow say that spending my free time on this site is merely part of the master strategy to make money too? Companies are just collections of indviduals. It's apparently easy to forget that.
If you want to know my beef it's this:
If some individual puts up a skin site, it's because they're just a good guy. But if a company sponsers one, it has to be purely for money.
Isn't that what you're saying? That you actually somehow believe that WinCustomize is purely a capitalistic effort?
Sorry Paxx, but sometimes companies, especially fairly small ones, do things for the same reasons that individuals do. They think something si cool, they want to help others, and they have the ability to do it.
Not everything is black and white. If my neighbor is moving, I'll help them move. But I won't help them move if they are moving during a time on vacation or have to go to work. Does that make me an unhelpful person? I don't think so. It just means I'm not universally going to be able to help my neighbors.
Does WinCustomize support the community? Sure it does. Is it going to harm itself so that it can satisfy a handful of users who demand absolute neutrality for no other real reason than just for the principle of the matter? No. Does that make WinCustomize a non-community site? Of course not.
There are lots of companies out there that actually do good deeds that are not necessarily economically justified. If having a skin site was a great business move, all the other commercial skinning programs would have started skin sites or at least have their own skin library. But the fact is, it's much cheaper to point to some skin site (like we did with skinz.org) and send users there saving the company the expense.
So don't try to kid yourself that WinCustomize exists as some sort of master marketing or sales strategy. It exists to try to help the "community". But not to the point of really doing self-harm. It exists because we like skins and icons and themes. I'm writing this at 11:29pm at home. Are you going to somehow say that spending my free time on this site is merely part of the master strategy to make money too? Companies are just collections of indviduals. It's apparently easy to forget that.
Mackintosh
Reply #79 Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:38 AM
Reply #79 Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:38 AM
Froggy, you can talk (type) yourself to death yet you still won't convince a number of people. Just live with that fact and move on. Those who trust you, already believe you and those who don't, well, as history shows, they never will.
Mackintosh
Reply #80 Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:40 AM
Reply #80 Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:40 AM
One more thing. I agree with paxx in one important point. I think it's about time you conceded the fact that WC is a Stardock owned and influenced website. I suggest you add that to the "about" section and end this controversy. It's only a couple of lines and those 400,000 people that come here will hardly give a damn, while you will appease those anti-globalists among us.
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Reply #61 Monday, August 13, 2001 2:08 AM
by Developer Tandis - 8/12/2001 11:23:59 PM
whats that mean? are we making changes here? nah just voicing an oppion. dont let me ofend you, I have no plans to do that. Im not here to stand up for Doreen but what did she say that got ya mad? just wondering?