Registered your software?
Wednesday, August 8, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just curious how many people downloading skins and such here have registered the program they're downloading skins for.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
 |
|
Page 3 of 8 | |
|
|---|
Third Eye
Reply #43 Friday, August 10, 2001 11:37 AM
Reply #43 Friday, August 10, 2001 11:37 AM
Yeah well...uh...well... That's Mr.Eye to you Jafo 
heheh
heheh
Draginol
Reply #44 Friday, August 10, 2001 12:01 PM
Reply #44 Friday, August 10, 2001 12:01 PM
Some great ideas and I pretty much feel the same as Paxx and Jafo on this.
The casual user who has downloaded a given program, visits a skin site and checks out a couple dozen different skins wouldn't be even aware of such a limit.
But the guy whose downloading hundreds of skins over months needs to contribute in some way. I think those who don't like the idea really don't understand how expensive these sites become. I would have thought that the loss of skinz.org and deskmod.com would have been wake up calls that these sites are extremely expensive. You can't justify the expense of such a site as an "advertiseing expense".
Someday bandwidth will probably be a lot cheaper and then it won't matter so much. But saying that $20 is too expensive for some guy whose downloading megs and megs of stuff is not a realistic argument. 50 megabytes is a considerable amount of bandwidth.
One thing some people dont' realize is that this site is currently a several megabits over its quota. So if the T-shirts and other goodies don't sell sufficiently to cover the difference, then we'll be looking at either having the site become massively slower due to less bandwidth available to it, getting heavy downloaders who aren't contributing to no longer be able to download, or get those who haven't contributed to contribute.
The casual user who has downloaded a given program, visits a skin site and checks out a couple dozen different skins wouldn't be even aware of such a limit.
But the guy whose downloading hundreds of skins over months needs to contribute in some way. I think those who don't like the idea really don't understand how expensive these sites become. I would have thought that the loss of skinz.org and deskmod.com would have been wake up calls that these sites are extremely expensive. You can't justify the expense of such a site as an "advertiseing expense".
Someday bandwidth will probably be a lot cheaper and then it won't matter so much. But saying that $20 is too expensive for some guy whose downloading megs and megs of stuff is not a realistic argument. 50 megabytes is a considerable amount of bandwidth.
One thing some people dont' realize is that this site is currently a several megabits over its quota. So if the T-shirts and other goodies don't sell sufficiently to cover the difference, then we'll be looking at either having the site become massively slower due to less bandwidth available to it, getting heavy downloaders who aren't contributing to no longer be able to download, or get those who haven't contributed to contribute.
mooshoo
Reply #45 Friday, August 10, 2001 11:25 PM
Reply #45 Friday, August 10, 2001 11:25 PM
ok, so i can understand a pop up for an unregistered user, and also allowing people fast access through Stardock who have registered sounds ok and totally fair to me. After all, I'm not the one paying the bills around here. One other thing, though...
Third Eye (sorry, Mr. Eye
),
restricting people from posting on the board, I think, would be unhealthy to the site and it's users. In doing that people wouldn't get help/input nearly as fast, as much, if at all because people might not want to "waste" a message.
Also, limiting accounts to X amount of downloads per day, or a certain limit of megs downloaded wouldn't work that well. As stated before, making an account takes 15 seconds, so someone could download their max amount, and switch to another account to finish.
sorry if I'm getting too involved in this discussion
Third Eye (sorry, Mr. Eye
),restricting people from posting on the board, I think, would be unhealthy to the site and it's users. In doing that people wouldn't get help/input nearly as fast, as much, if at all because people might not want to "waste" a message.
Also, limiting accounts to X amount of downloads per day, or a certain limit of megs downloaded wouldn't work that well. As stated before, making an account takes 15 seconds, so someone could download their max amount, and switch to another account to finish.
sorry if I'm getting too involved in this discussion
Mackintosh
Reply #46 Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:13 AM
Reply #46 Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:13 AM
Been a registered ODNT user for what now...two years or so? Registered WB when it went 1.0 (didn't want to register beta software), got ODNT only so I could get access to WB beta, rather silly, wasn't it 
I equate every purchase under $AUS 100 to packets of cigarettes. ODNT has so far cost me 10 packs of Marlboro Lights 100's. I can easily live with that, for a while I'll smoke 10 a day, instead of a pack
On a serious note, I agree with Brad. Bandwidth is expensive, freeloaders should be limited in any way possible. Have download queues, a limit of MB/month or something else, as long as they don't get to run wild.
As unfair and cynical this may sound...If you can't afford something, tough, don't use it then. There's no such thing as a free lunch anywhere in this world and there won't be for quite some time yet.
I equate every purchase under $AUS 100 to packets of cigarettes. ODNT has so far cost me 10 packs of Marlboro Lights 100's. I can easily live with that, for a while I'll smoke 10 a day, instead of a pack On a serious note, I agree with Brad. Bandwidth is expensive, freeloaders should be limited in any way possible. Have download queues, a limit of MB/month or something else, as long as they don't get to run wild.
As unfair and cynical this may sound...If you can't afford something, tough, don't use it then. There's no such thing as a free lunch anywhere in this world and there won't be for quite some time yet.
paxx
Reply #47 Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:21 AM
Reply #47 Saturday, August 11, 2001 11:21 AM
Wow, are cigarette really 10$ a pack in AU? Wow wow wow!
Frogboy
Reply #48 Saturday, August 11, 2001 6:29 PM
Reply #48 Saturday, August 11, 2001 6:29 PM
Interesting statistic we found today:
Currently, the DesktopX section alone is using over 40% of the download bandwidth. 40% for just that section.
Such a system of limiting downloads on those who haven't registered could be done just on DesktopX, leaving all the other sections unaffected. It would make a good pilot program.
(as a point of reference, WindowBlinds only uses 15%).
Currently, the DesktopX section alone is using over 40% of the download bandwidth. 40% for just that section.
Such a system of limiting downloads on those who haven't registered could be done just on DesktopX, leaving all the other sections unaffected. It would make a good pilot program.
(as a point of reference, WindowBlinds only uses 15%).
Tarkus
Reply #49 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:23 PM
Reply #49 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:23 PM
All those big themes, huh? Plus, all the new DX users. Interesting.
Frogboy
Reply #50 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:26 PM
Reply #50 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:26 PM
Yep. Today, 18,000 DesktopX themes/objects will be downloaded.
Put in perspective, around 24,000 WindowBlinds skins will be downloaded. So DesktopX is definitely very popular. So the first thing we would do is simply see what % of that bandwidth is used by unregistered users. If it's only like 15% then it's not worth pursuing. But if it's 50% for instance, heck yea. Half of 40% of our bandwidth use (20% for those of you in Palm Beach) is a good chunk of bandwidth. And that's not counting the JPEG thumbnails/previews bandwidth.
Put in perspective, around 24,000 WindowBlinds skins will be downloaded. So DesktopX is definitely very popular. So the first thing we would do is simply see what % of that bandwidth is used by unregistered users. If it's only like 15% then it's not worth pursuing. But if it's 50% for instance, heck yea. Half of 40% of our bandwidth use (20% for those of you in Palm Beach) is a good chunk of bandwidth. And that's not counting the JPEG thumbnails/previews bandwidth.
Jafo
Reply #51 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:55 PM
Reply #51 Saturday, August 11, 2001 7:55 PM
Hmmmm Palm Beach sounds good.....better than winter in Melbourne...
And half of 40% is 20%......you live and learn....
And half of 40% is 20%......you live and learn....
CRUMBUT
Reply #52 Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:50 PM
Reply #52 Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:50 PM
Bad Idea. Are you gonna watch what I download? not that Im doing anything bad but.. dont watch me. Im not here for that and if that is the case I wont come here anymore. I am registered but I still dont like the idea. If hosting is such a pain then why did ya take it on? This is not what was planned for this site in the begining.. or did ya forget the old " This site will be ran by shogot and 10c without Stardocks influence" what happened here? It all seems to rotate around the mighty buck. I dont recall that being the issues back then. Sure selling T-shirts and all that can be necessary to help host bandwidth and all but watching your members and what they do for the benifit of one software compant which also hosts this site? hmm why dont ya just charge people $100. a year to have the privlage of being a member here. OR just tack an extra $5.00 on the proce of the Stardock softwares to have access to this site? Just my oppinion but to me.. This stinks.
Tarkus
Reply #53 Sunday, August 12, 2001 7:51 PM
Reply #53 Sunday, August 12, 2001 7:51 PM
Crumbut: Of COURSE it revolves around the mighty buck. If you don't think money is important, why don't YOU host the site? It's always nice to spend someone else's money.
The reason why it's an issue now and not before is because traffic has FAR exceeded expectations. Therefore, it's way overbudget.
Your suggestion for having Stardock customers further subsidize all the freeloaders is a horrible idea. The budget is already there for Stardock customers. Why should they foot the bill for all the freeloaders, too?
As for your concern that they could be watching what you download, exactly how is that different now? If they were somehow interested in what you were downloading, it would be trivial for them to do so now (assuming you're a member).
The reason why it's an issue now and not before is because traffic has FAR exceeded expectations. Therefore, it's way overbudget.
Your suggestion for having Stardock customers further subsidize all the freeloaders is a horrible idea. The budget is already there for Stardock customers. Why should they foot the bill for all the freeloaders, too?
As for your concern that they could be watching what you download, exactly how is that different now? If they were somehow interested in what you were downloading, it would be trivial for them to do so now (assuming you're a member).
CRUMBUT
Reply #54 Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:09 PM
Reply #54 Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:09 PM
what am I new kid on the block? You dont know me.. no Im not having a bad day.. just voicing my oppion on something I have played a part it since oh.. 1999 maybe even late 98 dont recall... Thanks for your input though.
craeonics
Reply #55 Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:30 PM
Reply #55 Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:30 PM
<egocentric core>
To be honest, I don't really care about it. Seeing I neither use the software, nor download the skins for it, nor look at the sections (only when very bored), none of this applies to me.
</egocentric core>
Anyway, the average Joe Blow Downloader is just as egocentric as I am. he or she just wants downloads. Requiring people to register to be able to use the site would certainly reduce the bandwidth usage in a way. But that would also mean lots of people would be cut off from it unless they register, which might mean they'll abandone the product altogether. Not quite what the goal was. Similarly, registered users might also suck up all the bandwidth.
A quota system could work, non registered users can download amount X/month, registered users can download the triple of that or so. Still there's the multiple accounts backdoor then. So that's no solution either.
Is there a solution anyway? One one hand you want exposure, on the other hand you want to constrain bandwidth. Sounds pretty conflicting to me.
To be honest, I don't really care about it. Seeing I neither use the software, nor download the skins for it, nor look at the sections (only when very bored), none of this applies to me.
</egocentric core>
Anyway, the average Joe Blow Downloader is just as egocentric as I am. he or she just wants downloads. Requiring people to register to be able to use the site would certainly reduce the bandwidth usage in a way. But that would also mean lots of people would be cut off from it unless they register, which might mean they'll abandone the product altogether. Not quite what the goal was. Similarly, registered users might also suck up all the bandwidth.
A quota system could work, non registered users can download amount X/month, registered users can download the triple of that or so. Still there's the multiple accounts backdoor then. So that's no solution either.
Is there a solution anyway? One one hand you want exposure, on the other hand you want to constrain bandwidth. Sounds pretty conflicting to me.
Tarkus
Reply #56 Sunday, August 12, 2001 9:18 PM
Reply #56 Sunday, August 12, 2001 9:18 PM
Crumbut: I don't know where you got the idea that I thought you were new. You're right that I don't know you, but I've been reading your posts (and enjoying your skins) for quite a long time, first on Skinz and now here, and I don't recall you going off like that, especially in two different threads. That's why I asked if you were having a bad day.
And I know you were just voicing your opinion. So was I. Isn't that the point of this board?
And I know you were just voicing your opinion. So was I. Isn't that the point of this board?
paxx
Reply #57 Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:29 PM
Reply #57 Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:29 PM
Tarkus, you know what I find interesting? Over at Skinz.org, I remember CRUMBUT and Doreen being the BIGGEST fans of Object Desktop. The would never miss a chance to tell some rookie to go buy the whole Object Desktop subscription, that it was worth every penny...
And now this...
We hardly see CRUMBUt or Doreen around this part of the neighbourhood anymore. What happened? How did this site succeeded in driving away two of Stardock's biggest fans?
Just food for thoughts...
And now this...
We hardly see CRUMBUt or Doreen around this part of the neighbourhood anymore. What happened? How did this site succeeded in driving away two of Stardock's biggest fans?
Just food for thoughts...
Frogboy
Reply #58 Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:44 PM
Reply #58 Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:44 PM
I know everyone hates when I get statistical...
But statistics are the only real way to make these kinds of decisions. We can't live on anedotal view points.
WinCustomize already does nearly twice the bandwidth per month that skinz.org did at its height. I've talked to Mian about this very issue on many occasions over the years.
And that's the issue. When we set up this site, we assumed it would never do as much traffic as Skinz.org did. Skinz.org was the ideal site. In our mind, it was the perfect skin site.
This month we will get over 400,000 *unique* users. As I type this, there are 306 people currently logged on. The resulting bandwidth use is problematic.
Skin sites, not just that one have really 3 options (or combination of):
1) Make the sites incredibly slow by lowering bandwidth to what the site can afford.
2) Find ways of lowering the amount of bandwidth being used by users.
3) Find ways to see if the users will help chip in on the bandwidth bill.
This is something all the sites have to wrestle with.
We want to avoid option 1. We've done a lot of work this month to decrease the bandwidth the site uses to work on option 2.
And selling T-shirts and CDs and other goodies may help on paying for the bandwidth.
But if all that fails, I don't understand why someone would object to trying to stop people who are pirating our software and downloading many megabytes of skins. As has been pointed out, anyone downloading 50 MEGABYTES of skins isn't a casual user. A casual user wouldn't even be aware of any of this. I haven't even downloaded 50 megs of skins. But there are already thousands of people who have. And if they've at least registered the software they use, then that's great, we hope they download everything. But what about the guy who'se using a cracked copy of WindowBlinds? Why should people paying their hard earned money to register their software have to pay for the guy pirating the software and massively downloading?
But statistics are the only real way to make these kinds of decisions. We can't live on anedotal view points.
WinCustomize already does nearly twice the bandwidth per month that skinz.org did at its height. I've talked to Mian about this very issue on many occasions over the years.
And that's the issue. When we set up this site, we assumed it would never do as much traffic as Skinz.org did. Skinz.org was the ideal site. In our mind, it was the perfect skin site.
This month we will get over 400,000 *unique* users. As I type this, there are 306 people currently logged on. The resulting bandwidth use is problematic.
Skin sites, not just that one have really 3 options (or combination of):
1) Make the sites incredibly slow by lowering bandwidth to what the site can afford.
2) Find ways of lowering the amount of bandwidth being used by users.
3) Find ways to see if the users will help chip in on the bandwidth bill.
This is something all the sites have to wrestle with.
We want to avoid option 1. We've done a lot of work this month to decrease the bandwidth the site uses to work on option 2.
And selling T-shirts and CDs and other goodies may help on paying for the bandwidth.
But if all that fails, I don't understand why someone would object to trying to stop people who are pirating our software and downloading many megabytes of skins. As has been pointed out, anyone downloading 50 MEGABYTES of skins isn't a casual user. A casual user wouldn't even be aware of any of this. I haven't even downloaded 50 megs of skins. But there are already thousands of people who have. And if they've at least registered the software they use, then that's great, we hope they download everything. But what about the guy who'se using a cracked copy of WindowBlinds? Why should people paying their hard earned money to register their software have to pay for the guy pirating the software and massively downloading?
Istari
Reply #59 Sunday, August 12, 2001 11:23 PM
Reply #59 Sunday, August 12, 2001 11:23 PM
Aren't crumbut and doreen admins on LOS now? I gather they spend their time there. Oh hey, nice they changed WinCustomize from being a community site over there to being a company site. Very classy on their part.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 3 of 8 | |
|
|---|
Reply #41 Friday, August 10, 2001 10:26 AM