Registered your software?
Wednesday, August 8, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just curious how many people downloading skins and such here have registered the program they're downloading skins for.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
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DaWebMassa
Reply #22 Thursday, August 9, 2001 12:43 PM
Reply #22 Thursday, August 9, 2001 12:43 PM
I've been a happy registered user of ODNT for a long time now and here's my outlook on it...
Let's face it, the world is full of free-loaders. As long as someone (including myself at times) can freeload, they have no initiative to lay out cash, fill out forms or even post a damn comment! (another story in itself)
However, as has been discussed before and I've clarified before, you have a choice. Make it harder, and you will lose users, no two ways about it. Now, unless you're running banner ads and the # of hits or click throughs counts, this won't be that big a deal. OR WILL IT... for every 20 users that say screw it, a few of them may have been potential registerees for both the site and the software.
However, I also believe there will come a point where some people will ask themselves why they bother with any effort when a zillion other people haven't.
Force people to make the effort, and you will weed out a lot of freeloaders but also some potential good eggs. A gamble no matter what you do.
Let's face it, the world is full of free-loaders. As long as someone (including myself at times) can freeload, they have no initiative to lay out cash, fill out forms or even post a damn comment! (another story in itself)
However, as has been discussed before and I've clarified before, you have a choice. Make it harder, and you will lose users, no two ways about it. Now, unless you're running banner ads and the # of hits or click throughs counts, this won't be that big a deal. OR WILL IT... for every 20 users that say screw it, a few of them may have been potential registerees for both the site and the software.
However, I also believe there will come a point where some people will ask themselves why they bother with any effort when a zillion other people haven't.
Force people to make the effort, and you will weed out a lot of freeloaders but also some potential good eggs. A gamble no matter what you do.
plainsong
Reply #23 Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:28 PM
Reply #23 Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:28 PM
I look at it this way..
Wincustomize is a glorified advertizing expense for Stardock. The fact that the site and all the skins on it are here is actually advertizing the product better than any banner-ad ever could. The other programs here, are by being here, advertized by Stardock. If anyone should pay, it's them.
As a user of Stardock's products, I am comforted by the fact that there's a nice archive here. If I was being checked up on and nagged however, it becomes less of an advertizement, and more of a warning... not to use your product.
Listen to Hippy. There are enough Big Brothers as it is.. the recording industry, the horrible tv shows..Microsoft.. Adobe... let's not make it worse.
Wincustomize is a glorified advertizing expense for Stardock. The fact that the site and all the skins on it are here is actually advertizing the product better than any banner-ad ever could. The other programs here, are by being here, advertized by Stardock. If anyone should pay, it's them.
As a user of Stardock's products, I am comforted by the fact that there's a nice archive here. If I was being checked up on and nagged however, it becomes less of an advertizement, and more of a warning... not to use your product.
Listen to Hippy. There are enough Big Brothers as it is.. the recording industry, the horrible tv shows..Microsoft.. Adobe... let's not make it worse.
Dangeruss
Reply #24 Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:48 PM
Reply #24 Thursday, August 9, 2001 1:48 PM
Many software producers offer free content ONLY to their registered users. Nothing new or wrong with this. The big difference is that these softwares cost hundreds and even thousnads of dollars - not 20.00. Stardock provides tons of bandwidth to support "freeloaders". Not exactly fair is it?
Some claim that this site is an advertizing expense. That's true to an extent, but when the cost of advertizing a product outstrips the profit, it's not doing anyone but the still 'potential' customer any good.
Sure, provide some access, but not unlimited access to shareware users. If those people who get a nag screen after eating up a significant allotment of bandwidth decide to never purchase the product because of a gentle reminder, then so be it. Why should Stardock provide them costly access after the user has had fair time to eval the software?
Begin personal rant: Come on people, we're only talking about 20.00 here, for WB anyway. I don't mean to offend, but how long does one need to SAVE to accumulate 20 dollars? Do you not have a PC and an ISP? Those weren't / aren't cheap. Go out and mow or rake ONE yard. Wow! 20 bucks! Easy. Sell some old CD's, Spend a Saturday as a "day laborer" doing some manual labor. You'll have probably close to a hundred dollars to buy software with! End rant.
Some claim that this site is an advertizing expense. That's true to an extent, but when the cost of advertizing a product outstrips the profit, it's not doing anyone but the still 'potential' customer any good.
Sure, provide some access, but not unlimited access to shareware users. If those people who get a nag screen after eating up a significant allotment of bandwidth decide to never purchase the product because of a gentle reminder, then so be it. Why should Stardock provide them costly access after the user has had fair time to eval the software?
Begin personal rant: Come on people, we're only talking about 20.00 here, for WB anyway. I don't mean to offend, but how long does one need to SAVE to accumulate 20 dollars? Do you not have a PC and an ISP? Those weren't / aren't cheap. Go out and mow or rake ONE yard. Wow! 20 bucks! Easy. Sell some old CD's, Spend a Saturday as a "day laborer" doing some manual labor. You'll have probably close to a hundred dollars to buy software with! End rant.
paxx
Reply #26 Thursday, August 9, 2001 3:11 PM
Reply #26 Thursday, August 9, 2001 3:11 PM
Well, not that I generally disagree, Russ, but it's sometimes not as simple as that. First, for some non-US people it's somewhat more expensive. And secondly, some people just can't buy those toys for some reason. Parents/spouse won't allow it, whatever.
Personnaly, I had to wait till I got cash money for Christmas to buy my OD subscription. My wife would have killed me if I have withdrawn 100$ from our bank account for software we don't need. We do have two kids on a tight budget. We are saving up right now to buy a minivan and repave our driveway. There are priorities in life.
Personnaly, I had to wait till I got cash money for Christmas to buy my OD subscription. My wife would have killed me if I have withdrawn 100$ from our bank account for software we don't need. We do have two kids on a tight budget. We are saving up right now to buy a minivan and repave our driveway. There are priorities in life.
plainsong
Reply #27 Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:08 PM
Reply #27 Thursday, August 9, 2001 5:08 PM
I'll say something that will surely get rotten eggs thrown at me..
Most of the software in OD is downright buggy. I understand that Windowblinds is easily worth 20 bucks, but to plunk down 50 bucks, and have only one of the programs really work as it's supposed to is a bit much.
I understand the meaning of beta, but sheesh, to plunk down 50 bucks a year or else get nag screens is a bit much.
Most of the software in OD is downright buggy. I understand that Windowblinds is easily worth 20 bucks, but to plunk down 50 bucks, and have only one of the programs really work as it's supposed to is a bit much.
I understand the meaning of beta, but sheesh, to plunk down 50 bucks a year or else get nag screens is a bit much.
Jafo
Reply #28 Thursday, August 9, 2001 7:44 PM
Reply #28 Thursday, August 9, 2001 7:44 PM
As an Australian, I paid some-what more than the $20 USD for my WinCusto CD. The point is, I'm not begrudging that in the least. I see it as yet another opportunity to put something BACK into the community. I've been around in skinning for a long time, getting a lot of enjoyment out of it, and gaining a lot of friends/experiences along the way, certainly worth the trouble/effort/time/consideration/money to put into the 'community' for what I get out of it.
On the other hand, anonymous leechers of band-width sucking data from sites such as this and giving absolutely zilch in return, not even bothering to log on to the site? Good grief.
Maybe those people who DO contribute financially by paying for the products should be protesting more loudly that they are financially supporting the free-loaders...
Just my AUS 0.02
BTW...the CD in Oz was $58.16...[equates to about 5 movie theatre tickets]...
On the other hand, anonymous leechers of band-width sucking data from sites such as this and giving absolutely zilch in return, not even bothering to log on to the site? Good grief.
Maybe those people who DO contribute financially by paying for the products should be protesting more loudly that they are financially supporting the free-loaders...
Just my AUS 0.02
BTW...the CD in Oz was $58.16...[equates to about 5 movie theatre tickets]...
Frogboy
Reply #29 Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:20 PM
Reply #29 Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:20 PM
No one is suggesting people pay $50 per year. Right now, let's just think about the folks who:
Have NEVER purchased anything. YET still download 50+ MEGABYTES of skins and such. Do you know how many skins someone has to download to get that high?
And there are a LOT of people fit that description. Thousands (literally).
Bandwidth intensive sites that don't have banner ads have a vested interest in actually lowering bandwidth consumption. If "nagging" people who pirate software and then download megs of skins for the pirated programs causes some of them to leave, that's an acceptable solution because fewer people is fine.
I'm surprised more people aren't unhappy that there are thousands of people who are freeloading (as someone else pointed out).
Have NEVER purchased anything. YET still download 50+ MEGABYTES of skins and such. Do you know how many skins someone has to download to get that high?
And there are a LOT of people fit that description. Thousands (literally).
Bandwidth intensive sites that don't have banner ads have a vested interest in actually lowering bandwidth consumption. If "nagging" people who pirate software and then download megs of skins for the pirated programs causes some of them to leave, that's an acceptable solution because fewer people is fine.
I'm surprised more people aren't unhappy that there are thousands of people who are freeloading (as someone else pointed out).
Grog
Reply #30 Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:50 PM
Reply #30 Thursday, August 9, 2001 8:50 PM
Just a thought, but how about a time lag for non registered users, say about 5 minutes between downloads. I saw a site someplace that did that to slow folks down. I will be Registering OD for the third time here shortly since I will be just slightly out of town in December 
Plainsong: I like a number of folks and it sounds like you do also download every new update on OD, be it Release, Beta or Alpha another way to put it Stable, Buggy, WoooHooo. I'm addicted, I'll admit it and I have no intention of kicking the habit
Plainsong: I like a number of folks and it sounds like you do also download every new update on OD, be it Release, Beta or Alpha another way to put it Stable, Buggy, WoooHooo. I'm addicted, I'll admit it and I have no intention of kicking the habit
Sylva
Reply #31 Thursday, August 9, 2001 9:21 PM
Reply #31 Thursday, August 9, 2001 9:21 PM
I have more of a question than a comment.
How will you be detecting that a user has registered a specific app? Will that be done with the web integration (such as that in WB) or by comparing the names of the users to that in the stardock databse?
The reason I am asking, is what if someone here is registered under their own name, but their software is registered to thier spouse, or a family member?
Just curious *s*
How will you be detecting that a user has registered a specific app? Will that be done with the web integration (such as that in WB) or by comparing the names of the users to that in the stardock databse?
The reason I am asking, is what if someone here is registered under their own name, but their software is registered to thier spouse, or a family member?
Just curious *s*
Buzz_Hog
Reply #32 Thursday, August 9, 2001 10:45 PM
Reply #32 Thursday, August 9, 2001 10:45 PM
Registered ODNT, WinSTEP, as well as HoverDesk....
Do I use any of them cosistantly? No... maybe once a week or so... I registered them because they are all relatively inexpensive software packs that I enjoy playing with and I know the registration payment is helping out the developers. With the same respect, I'll only download skins that I'm really going to use.
As a registered user, it won't bother me one way or another in limiting non-registered users bandwidth usage and respect the decision of the sponsor of the site.
Do I use any of them cosistantly? No... maybe once a week or so... I registered them because they are all relatively inexpensive software packs that I enjoy playing with and I know the registration payment is helping out the developers. With the same respect, I'll only download skins that I'm really going to use.
As a registered user, it won't bother me one way or another in limiting non-registered users bandwidth usage and respect the decision of the sponsor of the site.
kith
Reply #33 Thursday, August 9, 2001 11:15 PM
Reply #33 Thursday, August 9, 2001 11:15 PM
Brad,
I paid for the whole OD package and I really didn't mind the bw problems WC is having when you could easily scoot over to the Stardock site and pull what you liked. Here's an idea, leave the WC site "as is" and turn Stardock.net back on for downlaoding for registered users. Have the Stardock site focus more on the, how shall we say without hurting feelings, more accomplished artists. This way you could leave WC as a free forum for everyone to enjoy with the caveat of limited bw but still maintain a location for downloading the most enjoyable titles.
Bill
I paid for the whole OD package and I really didn't mind the bw problems WC is having when you could easily scoot over to the Stardock site and pull what you liked. Here's an idea, leave the WC site "as is" and turn Stardock.net back on for downlaoding for registered users. Have the Stardock site focus more on the, how shall we say without hurting feelings, more accomplished artists. This way you could leave WC as a free forum for everyone to enjoy with the caveat of limited bw but still maintain a location for downloading the most enjoyable titles.
Bill
mooshoo
Reply #34 Friday, August 10, 2001 12:24 AM
Reply #34 Friday, August 10, 2001 12:24 AM
I agree with everything paxx said.
While to most of you 20 or 50 dollars isn't a big deal, but to some of us spending that much money on something you don't need is wasteful. sure, you can say we pay for a computer and internet which isn't totally a necessity, but for kids in high school you really do almost need a computer with internet access and for someone like me who's learning programming and graphic design for a future career.
I can understand a nag screen or something like that, but I would be really disappointed if this site were no longer available for unregistered users, or if the community was split into registered users go stardock, un regs go wincusto.
While to most of you 20 or 50 dollars isn't a big deal, but to some of us spending that much money on something you don't need is wasteful. sure, you can say we pay for a computer and internet which isn't totally a necessity, but for kids in high school you really do almost need a computer with internet access and for someone like me who's learning programming and graphic design for a future career.
I can understand a nag screen or something like that, but I would be really disappointed if this site were no longer available for unregistered users, or if the community was split into registered users go stardock, un regs go wincusto.
paxx
Reply #35 Friday, August 10, 2001 6:37 AM
Reply #35 Friday, August 10, 2001 6:37 AM
Given that 50 Megs is a big number, I have nothing against the idea. Think about it...
The average Winblinds skin is about 75k, the average Winamp skin 125k, DesktopX themes can be more or less 2000k and wallpaper are in average 300k.
Now, if somebody downloaded one of each of the above every week (which would almost be insane, who wants to change completely his computer interface every week?), it would take him 20 weeks to reach the limit of 50 megs. I think using this site for free for 5 months is reasonable. After that, he could still use the site but he'd get a popup screen that he can just as easily close. No biggie.
My point above was more to point out that ditching out cach is not that easy. We live is a society that expects you to have bottomless pockets. But my point here is that even if you can't afford anything, you can still accesss the site and download quite a LOT of content from it with no restriction. After that, all you get is a nag screen. So what?
The average Winblinds skin is about 75k, the average Winamp skin 125k, DesktopX themes can be more or less 2000k and wallpaper are in average 300k.
Now, if somebody downloaded one of each of the above every week (which would almost be insane, who wants to change completely his computer interface every week?), it would take him 20 weeks to reach the limit of 50 megs. I think using this site for free for 5 months is reasonable. After that, he could still use the site but he'd get a popup screen that he can just as easily close. No biggie.
My point above was more to point out that ditching out cach is not that easy. We live is a society that expects you to have bottomless pockets. But my point here is that even if you can't afford anything, you can still accesss the site and download quite a LOT of content from it with no restriction. After that, all you get is a nag screen. So what?
Valhalla
Reply #36 Friday, August 10, 2001 6:47 AM
Reply #36 Friday, August 10, 2001 6:47 AM
I've tried many different products but the only ones I run constantly are Windowblinds and NextStart.
However, with the price of these programs being, what I regard, relatively cheap, I am a registered user of ODNT, NextStart, HoverDesk, Talisman and a couple of Softini products.
I wholeheartedly (is that right, Jafo?) agree with the concept of Shareware and with all the hard work that goes into making these fine products, feel that a few dollars ( or English Pounds in my case) is well worth it.
However, with the price of these programs being, what I regard, relatively cheap, I am a registered user of ODNT, NextStart, HoverDesk, Talisman and a couple of Softini products.
I wholeheartedly (is that right, Jafo?) agree with the concept of Shareware and with all the hard work that goes into making these fine products, feel that a few dollars ( or English Pounds in my case) is well worth it.
kith
Reply #37 Friday, August 10, 2001 7:48 AM
Reply #37 Friday, August 10, 2001 7:48 AM
MooShoo,
I'm not suggesting splitting everyone one up between the have and have nots. What I am suggesting is that Stardock allow users who have purchased the product to be able download from their site the most popular titles featured here. The full library and portal feel could be kept at WC while still free and Stardock could offer quick and easy downloads for those who have contributed to Stardocks payroll with their hard earned cash.
Brad,
How about an alternate suggestion. Since you already offer news and updates through the Component Manager why not allow the downloading of themes, skins, icons, etc. through it as well. The registration info is already located in the CM and it could alleviate bw problems at WC.
I'm not suggesting splitting everyone one up between the have and have nots. What I am suggesting is that Stardock allow users who have purchased the product to be able download from their site the most popular titles featured here. The full library and portal feel could be kept at WC while still free and Stardock could offer quick and easy downloads for those who have contributed to Stardocks payroll with their hard earned cash.
Brad,
How about an alternate suggestion. Since you already offer news and updates through the Component Manager why not allow the downloading of themes, skins, icons, etc. through it as well. The registration info is already located in the CM and it could alleviate bw problems at WC.
Jafo
Reply #38 Friday, August 10, 2001 7:53 AM
Reply #38 Friday, August 10, 2001 7:53 AM
Yes, Valhalla....
Most people spend a reasonable amount of money on their hobbies, and which skinning can be considered as one.
People addicted to mass-downloading, collecting squillions of skins, should be likened to any other collector. A stamp collector doesn't magically amass thousands of stamps without some form of payment. Collectors of model cars, paintings, comics, movie posters, you name it...they pay.
Food for thought....
Most people spend a reasonable amount of money on their hobbies, and which skinning can be considered as one.
People addicted to mass-downloading, collecting squillions of skins, should be likened to any other collector. A stamp collector doesn't magically amass thousands of stamps without some form of payment. Collectors of model cars, paintings, comics, movie posters, you name it...they pay.
Food for thought....
Lethal_Zen
Reply #39 Friday, August 10, 2001 10:13 AM
Reply #39 Friday, August 10, 2001 10:13 AM
I admit that I am a lurker. I don't skin, but I have hung around the message boards here, at Devart, and Skinz (RIP) for well over a year now. I do sometimes leave comments but not often. I have probably downloaded 50 megs of skins over the last year. I got into this because I absolutely despise the windoze plain vanilla gui. I wanted something more. I was originally looking for wp but stumbled upon WB, and then NS, and finally ODNT.
I am now a registered user of both NS and ODNT and I did it for one reason: the skinners who do this and the admins who run these sites need a way to keep producing the skins I love. If it costs me a little, it's worth the satisfaction I get when I boot and see the masterpiece I have selected to grace my desktop each day.
At this point, if I had to live without skins I would rather do without a pc all together.
Jafo has a point, every hobby costs...people should start kicking in their fair share.
I am now a registered user of both NS and ODNT and I did it for one reason: the skinners who do this and the admins who run these sites need a way to keep producing the skins I love. If it costs me a little, it's worth the satisfaction I get when I boot and see the masterpiece I have selected to grace my desktop each day.
At this point, if I had to live without skins I would rather do without a pc all together.
Jafo has a point, every hobby costs...people should start kicking in their fair share.
Third Eye
Reply #40 Friday, August 10, 2001 10:24 AM
Reply #40 Friday, August 10, 2001 10:24 AM
I think bill is one the right track. I have, as well as others, talked about the old SkinzBrowser app that skinz.org had. That seems like it would be the best way if you were set on this idea.
How this could work:
For registered users - SkinzBrowser would allow unlimited downloads and access to WC features and maybe add a bit more as an incentive to register.
The question here is, what if someone has a NS/WS registration but does not have a Stardock registration? Do only Registered users of Stardock Apps get to access unlimitedly? You do also house skinz for NS/WS.
For unregistered users - Access through WC.com but would only allow for (X) amount of downloads per day and maybe limit their number of postings to the message board.
A few pros and cons:
Con: This would limit the interaction with WC and could cause it to become less popular and quickly become an elitist forum. I have seen many skinz that are by unregistered users that are fantastic. You could loose this audience from uploading their skinz here.
Pro: This could incise people to register Stardock (WinSTEP?) products for the other features that WC could have to offer on the "registered" side. It would cut down on bandwidth.
I am a registered user of HoverDesk, ODNT, WinSTEP and Talisman so this wouldn't really affect me. But like MooShoo & Paxx said, allot of this community is still under the blanket of their parent/spouses and do not have the luxury of dropping the $$$ whenever they want. Do you really want to alienate these long time faces?
0.02
How this could work:
For registered users - SkinzBrowser would allow unlimited downloads and access to WC features and maybe add a bit more as an incentive to register.
The question here is, what if someone has a NS/WS registration but does not have a Stardock registration? Do only Registered users of Stardock Apps get to access unlimitedly? You do also house skinz for NS/WS.
For unregistered users - Access through WC.com but would only allow for (X) amount of downloads per day and maybe limit their number of postings to the message board.
A few pros and cons:
Con: This would limit the interaction with WC and could cause it to become less popular and quickly become an elitist forum. I have seen many skinz that are by unregistered users that are fantastic. You could loose this audience from uploading their skinz here.
Pro: This could incise people to register Stardock (WinSTEP?) products for the other features that WC could have to offer on the "registered" side. It would cut down on bandwidth.
I am a registered user of HoverDesk, ODNT, WinSTEP and Talisman so this wouldn't really affect me. But like MooShoo & Paxx said, allot of this community is still under the blanket of their parent/spouses
and do not have the luxury of dropping the $$$ whenever they want. Do you really want to alienate these long time faces?0.02
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Reply #21 Thursday, August 9, 2001 12:16 PM
unless u switch it back to be a stardock library only.