We need to give people more accolades
Saturday, July 14, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
One of our top priorities when we created the site was to have a way of really giving users who are contributing to the site some accoldates.
That's why we track the top skin authors per category and top skins and such. But we shouldn't stop there I think.
One of the things we've been throwing around is the idea of having a points system for users. So that people who are contributing to the site in other ways can get more recognition.
Basically the idea works something like this:
When you make a post, you get 1 point for every 10 responses it gets.
When you submit news that gets accepted, you get a point.
For every 10 responses you make you get a point.
For every 5 responses on news items you get a point.
For every 100 downloads your skin gets you get a point.
For every article we publish of yours you get 1 point.
For every 100 people who view your article you get a point.
For every 5 comments you make on a skin you get a point.
Now, to keep people from writing "junk" responses, they would lose a point for every response/comment of theirs we had to delete (so if the person responded "Yea!" as their post, we could delete it and the user would lose 1 point -- we would just discretion, only if it was apparent the person was making the weak response for points would we do that).
This sort of point system would then let us have a hall of fame for top contributors to the site.
That's why we track the top skin authors per category and top skins and such. But we shouldn't stop there I think.
One of the things we've been throwing around is the idea of having a points system for users. So that people who are contributing to the site in other ways can get more recognition.
Basically the idea works something like this:
When you make a post, you get 1 point for every 10 responses it gets.
When you submit news that gets accepted, you get a point.
For every 10 responses you make you get a point.
For every 5 responses on news items you get a point.
For every 100 downloads your skin gets you get a point.
For every article we publish of yours you get 1 point.
For every 100 people who view your article you get a point.
For every 5 comments you make on a skin you get a point.
Now, to keep people from writing "junk" responses, they would lose a point for every response/comment of theirs we had to delete (so if the person responded "Yea!" as their post, we could delete it and the user would lose 1 point -- we would just discretion, only if it was apparent the person was making the weak response for points would we do that).
This sort of point system would then let us have a hall of fame for top contributors to the site.
 |
|
Page 2 of 5 | |
|
|---|
Jafo
Reply #22 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:14 PM
Reply #22 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:14 PM
Brad...
What if the only way to dl from or actually access the site was to register first, and the registration would lapse somehow if positive contributions were not forth-coming and all that the user did was download?
Something like that....
Just brain-fading here...
What if the only way to dl from or actually access the site was to register first, and the registration would lapse somehow if positive contributions were not forth-coming and all that the user did was download?
Something like that....
Just brain-fading here...
Doreen
Reply #23 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:15 PM
Reply #23 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:15 PM
w/i = w/o
shoot I lost another point for typing this useless post to correct myself... haha
j/k
Brad you cannot control ppl on your site like essvid said it would be a waste of YOUR time
shoot I lost another point for typing this useless post to correct myself... haha
j/k
Brad you cannot control ppl on your site like essvid said it would be a waste of YOUR time
Doreen
Reply #24 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:17 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:17 PM
sheesh! you would have to hire 20 admins to chase me around all day long!!!!
hehe
night Brad
(it'll work out I'm sure)
hehe
night Brad
(it'll work out I'm sure)
Jafo
Reply #25 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:24 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:24 PM
I know there are a number of sites...[skinz was the first] where I tend to go out of my way to check spelling, or even post nude icons...[hehe], or whatever, all is my way of fostering inter-activity on the boards. Ultimately it's just this bull-shit communication that creatse the feeling of familiarity and belonging....what ultimately leads to camaraderie between fellow posters/skinners. Now and then, new people are drawn in to this, usually with positive benefits to all, certainly positive to that '100 or so' contributors to the site.
The only hassle then, is the masses of users who don't contribute. Well, at the moment, we can't/aren't ALL skinners....there's gotta be one or two simple 'users' out there whose use of band width needs to be curbed a bit.
Therein lies the problem.
[damn brain-fade is getting worse...I better stop]
The only hassle then, is the masses of users who don't contribute. Well, at the moment, we can't/aren't ALL skinners....there's gotta be one or two simple 'users' out there whose use of band width needs to be curbed a bit.
Therein lies the problem.
[damn brain-fade is getting worse...I better stop]
Robohead
Reply #26 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:27 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:27 PM
Isn't this just another version of the title/honorific thing that most people shot down when this site first opened? Not everybody wants or needs to show their status to the community. Everybody here already knows who the "real" contributors are.
This is the kind of stuff that bums me out about this site. Frogboy is so hung up on status ratings that when one vision doesn't pan out the way he wants, he invents a new one. I don't see any top skinners here asking for more recognition.
How I long for the old days when people skinned for fun instead of accolades and praise. Listen to Doreen up there.
Oh well, back to lurking.
This is the kind of stuff that bums me out about this site. Frogboy is so hung up on status ratings that when one vision doesn't pan out the way he wants, he invents a new one. I don't see any top skinners here asking for more recognition.
How I long for the old days when people skinned for fun instead of accolades and praise. Listen to Doreen up there.
Oh well, back to lurking.
Frogboy
Reply #27 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:28 PM
Reply #27 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:28 PM
Hehe, I agree with Paxx, we couldn't get into deleting posts so I think such a system would be doomed.
Doreen, yes, the site has had to expand a lot since it first started.
Stardock provides a block grant to the site for its expenses. That grant is enough to pay for a "skinz.org" level site in terms of traffic. But in June when Deskmod went down, the site's bandwidth use skyrocketed so the site had to get more bandwidht. Remember how the site was unbelievably slow for a week or two in June? That's because we had maxed out the bandwidth.
So we bought a ton more bandwidth. Right now, Stardock's paying the extra (i.e. temporarily increasing its grant) but eventually the site is going to have to pay for that difference.
So as I said, we'll have to either find a way to pay for that bandwidth or find a way to decrease the amount used or something in between. More high bandwidth sites will help but the reliability issue is a big concern (many skin authors, myself included, are wary of spending the hours necessary to upload all their stuff to a new site until it's proven it's not going to disappear in a few months).
I doubt anyone reading this post have downloaded 200+ megabytes of stuff. And that's the problem. There's plenty of stuff we can do, when someone downloads more than X megabytes pop up banner ads start showing up or nag screens or whatever that will either get them to contribute to the site in some meaningful way or they'll go elsewhere.
But surely we can all agree that someone like Treetog or TheCat or Doreen or Paxx or Cygnus should never be in the position of feeling like they HAVE to buy something because they contribute to the site in meaningful ways all the time.
But if such contributions matter, it would be nice for those people to get more recognition, but if the people who would be recognized don't want that recognition, then there's not much point in doing it.
Doreen, yes, the site has had to expand a lot since it first started.
Stardock provides a block grant to the site for its expenses. That grant is enough to pay for a "skinz.org" level site in terms of traffic. But in June when Deskmod went down, the site's bandwidth use skyrocketed so the site had to get more bandwidht. Remember how the site was unbelievably slow for a week or two in June? That's because we had maxed out the bandwidth.
So we bought a ton more bandwidth. Right now, Stardock's paying the extra (i.e. temporarily increasing its grant) but eventually the site is going to have to pay for that difference.
So as I said, we'll have to either find a way to pay for that bandwidth or find a way to decrease the amount used or something in between. More high bandwidth sites will help but the reliability issue is a big concern (many skin authors, myself included, are wary of spending the hours necessary to upload all their stuff to a new site until it's proven it's not going to disappear in a few months).
I doubt anyone reading this post have downloaded 200+ megabytes of stuff. And that's the problem. There's plenty of stuff we can do, when someone downloads more than X megabytes pop up banner ads start showing up or nag screens or whatever that will either get them to contribute to the site in some meaningful way or they'll go elsewhere.
But surely we can all agree that someone like Treetog or TheCat or Doreen or Paxx or Cygnus should never be in the position of feeling like they HAVE to buy something because they contribute to the site in meaningful ways all the time.
But if such contributions matter, it would be nice for those people to get more recognition, but if the people who would be recognized don't want that recognition, then there's not much point in doing it.
Transmutate
Reply #28 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:40 PM
Reply #28 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:40 PM
I have to agree with Jafo and Dor on this one.
I've been reading the progress of this thread and thought that maybe I shouldn't write anything, as I would hate to lose a point simply for writing a useless post
But...as so many others have put it, I too think that having a point system for ppl that contribute..well, pointless! We all know who the BIG contributes to the site are, we all know which ppl comment on skins on a regular basis, so why would we need to know that say treetog is a GREAT skiner, or someone else hangs out on the messageboard lots? (no names there )
I know which ppl around here contribute lots to this site, and I sure the rest of you do too!
...just my 2 cents on the subject
I've been reading the progress of this thread and thought that maybe I shouldn't write anything, as I would hate to lose a point simply for writing a useless post
But...as so many others have put it, I too think that having a point system for ppl that contribute..well, pointless! We all know who the BIG contributes to the site are, we all know which ppl comment on skins on a regular basis, so why would we need to know that say treetog is a GREAT skiner, or someone else hangs out on the messageboard lots? (no names there
)I know which ppl around here contribute lots to this site, and I sure the rest of you do too!
...just my 2 cents on the subject
Frogboy
Reply #29 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:54 PM
Reply #29 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:54 PM
There seems to be a consensus on that. If the people who such a system would benefit don't want it, no point in having it.
Though that will still leave us with the problem of how to measure non-finanical contribution to the site when/if it proves necessary to try to discourage people from downloading a quarter gig of stuff without doing anything constructive in return.
Though that will still leave us with the problem of how to measure non-finanical contribution to the site when/if it proves necessary to try to discourage people from downloading a quarter gig of stuff without doing anything constructive in return.
treetog
Reply #30 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:00 PM
Reply #30 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:00 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but LOS is running some similar "stats points" right now and I never saw any kind of complains there.
Maybe because they didn't ask nobody's opinion and just introduce their idea. I really don't see any problem with that.
I don't think that Brad is trying to control nobody here, just trying control the size of the bill that he is going to pay.
In time: In what I think, he is not wrong either.
Maybe because they didn't ask nobody's opinion and just introduce their idea. I really don't see any problem with that.
I don't think that Brad is trying to control nobody here, just trying control the size of the bill that he is going to pay.
In time: In what I think, he is not wrong either.
Jafo
Reply #31 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:13 PM
Reply #31 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:13 PM
Renato, yes the LOS points don't seem to be a problem...and in the case of WinCusto, all that we need is not to allocate any points for downloading, so those who just grabe the gigs will be conspicuous in their dearth of points...
Frogboy
Reply #32 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:33 PM
Reply #32 Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:33 PM
Hehe, of course, if we listed the top 20 downloaders here, you wouldn't recognize any of the names because they've never posted or anything.
Istari
Reply #33 Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:02 AM
Reply #33 Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:02 AM
Me don't care either way. But it sure does suck seeing how so many people just use this site as just a file download site without even commenting on skins or posting or anything. You go over to los or da and there's lots of posting there with far fewer downloads. There's a lot of mindless banter there too but I could live with some banter if it meant getting more people to try communicating for a change.
CygnusXII
Reply #34 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:14 AM
Reply #34 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:14 AM
I was never sure how to spell camaraderie, thanks Jafo...
I am also still keeping my mouth shut, and tipping a nod, to the direction this thread is taking. Seems interesting.
I am also still keeping my mouth shut, and tipping a nod, to the direction this thread is taking. Seems interesting.
Emily
Reply #36 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:42 AM
Reply #36 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:42 AM
Its posts like these that make it worth spending a late saturday night reading here. Such good intellects here.
ess-vid
Reply #37 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:57 AM
Reply #37 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:57 AM
Brad, a lot of your logic is a bit faulty.
You know how a point system that "discourages" mass downloaders helps bandwidth? By making them tell you to piss off, and then badmouthing this site to their friends. Making people mad isn't a good way to help your bill. Also, for every one of them, there's probably ten that don't even have an account so never see this stuff, and therefore make your problem stay firmly in place.
On this point system business, who the hell is it for? "The poor downtrodden users"? Pshaw. Every major skin site... WC, DA, LoS, etc... is oriented towards users (sure you can nickel and dime on "for the skinners" stuff, but in the end it's like saying download.com and HotFiles are for programmers). The only consolation for us (as in people that make skins) is the ability to build a reputation and following with our work (yeah, believe it or not, I'm more well known as "that icon guy" than the guy stirring up the forums). Even then, that wasn't excluvely our territory (and we understood this, and had no problem with such). Witness Jsenn, Doreen, Jafo, and myself while on forums. Jsenn especially, who's rep was built on her comments on works. Now... now we have kids that feel all these sites aren't enough, and are whining that we're big elitists and they should have reps too. Boohoo. Tell them to shut up and EARN a reputation, just like we did (we certainly weren't handed our places and "name" status via some cooked up status system).
You still haven't made it perfectly strict on what a "contributor" is, and it becomes doubly important when you implement a pay system. How do you classify nebulous users? Some people like Doreen, and feel she contributes, others think she's some goofball that goes "hehehe" a lot. Some think I'm intelligent and entertaining, others think I'm a big dumb jerk. Then there's people like Plastic who's primary contributions are on a different site. How do you judge our "contributions"? If it's on a person to person basis, you're going to catch a LOT of flak.
Here's what I think your best course of action is, given circumstances: first, kiss any chance of a self sustaining site goodbye (but you likely knew that). I tell you this, cos the second thing is instating a pay system (not immediately, but after SD's "temporary grant increase" is no longer feasable), and it's going to make your current userbase count nosedive. Third, while keeping WC's independence, blur the line between it and SD a little. Include a WC membership with each OD sub, put a comment system on the SD side of the skin database (this will increase chances of comments), give discounts for subs (just having skins won't cut it, they have DA and LoS... getting a few bucks off OD and access to some other goodies will appropriately sweeten the deal), stuff like that. Fourth, tell the people crying "I want a reputation too!" to earn one, like the rest of us have. Finally, figure out who gets a free pass, and decide exactly how it works.
Is the site going to be near as big as it is now? No, at least not for a long while. Will everyone be happy? Not in a million years. Will you have something that at least has a shot at sticking around? You bet, so long as you don't want to make it self sufficient.
You know how a point system that "discourages" mass downloaders helps bandwidth? By making them tell you to piss off, and then badmouthing this site to their friends. Making people mad isn't a good way to help your bill. Also, for every one of them, there's probably ten that don't even have an account so never see this stuff, and therefore make your problem stay firmly in place.
On this point system business, who the hell is it for? "The poor downtrodden users"? Pshaw. Every major skin site... WC, DA, LoS, etc... is oriented towards users (sure you can nickel and dime on "for the skinners" stuff, but in the end it's like saying download.com and HotFiles are for programmers). The only consolation for us (as in people that make skins) is the ability to build a reputation and following with our work (yeah, believe it or not, I'm more well known as "that icon guy" than the guy stirring up the forums). Even then, that wasn't excluvely our territory (and we understood this, and had no problem with such). Witness Jsenn, Doreen, Jafo, and myself while on forums. Jsenn especially, who's rep was built on her comments on works. Now... now we have kids that feel all these sites aren't enough, and are whining that we're big elitists and they should have reps too. Boohoo. Tell them to shut up and EARN a reputation, just like we did (we certainly weren't handed our places and "name" status via some cooked up status system).
You still haven't made it perfectly strict on what a "contributor" is, and it becomes doubly important when you implement a pay system. How do you classify nebulous users? Some people like Doreen, and feel she contributes, others think she's some goofball that goes "hehehe" a lot. Some think I'm intelligent and entertaining, others think I'm a big dumb jerk. Then there's people like Plastic who's primary contributions are on a different site. How do you judge our "contributions"? If it's on a person to person basis, you're going to catch a LOT of flak.
Here's what I think your best course of action is, given circumstances: first, kiss any chance of a self sustaining site goodbye (but you likely knew that). I tell you this, cos the second thing is instating a pay system (not immediately, but after SD's "temporary grant increase" is no longer feasable), and it's going to make your current userbase count nosedive. Third, while keeping WC's independence, blur the line between it and SD a little. Include a WC membership with each OD sub, put a comment system on the SD side of the skin database (this will increase chances of comments), give discounts for subs (just having skins won't cut it, they have DA and LoS... getting a few bucks off OD and access to some other goodies will appropriately sweeten the deal), stuff like that. Fourth, tell the people crying "I want a reputation too!" to earn one, like the rest of us have. Finally, figure out who gets a free pass, and decide exactly how it works.
Is the site going to be near as big as it is now? No, at least not for a long while. Will everyone be happy? Not in a million years. Will you have something that at least has a shot at sticking around? You bet, so long as you don't want to make it self sufficient.
flummox
Reply #38 Sunday, July 15, 2001 2:04 AM
Reply #38 Sunday, July 15, 2001 2:04 AM
Sounds like LOS.com
And all I have to say is what everyone else said...don't do it.
Haven't you given us enough titles as is?
I mean hell why not make a special win custo site for the people with most downloads and best skins/walls and leave the rest of us here.
I mean that is where this seems to be going right?
Sorry if I misread it but why can't we just have admins and everyone else.
Even devart has accolades to some degree but at least it is there for reason not by how much you contribute. I contribute i comment when I can I try to help people when I get almost ZERO help back and I'll still come if it happens but why can't it be about art...why such a status quo?
I dunno I mean stardock is big but settle down there boys and remember some of us are here for the art
And all I have to say is what everyone else said...don't do it.
Haven't you given us enough titles as is?
I mean hell why not make a special win custo site for the people with most downloads and best skins/walls and leave the rest of us here.
I mean that is where this seems to be going right?
Sorry if I misread it but why can't we just have admins and everyone else.
Even devart has accolades to some degree but at least it is there for reason not by how much you contribute. I contribute i comment when I can I try to help people when I get almost ZERO help back and I'll still come if it happens but why can't it be about art...why such a status quo?
I dunno I mean stardock is big but settle down there boys and remember some of us are here for the art
ShellFish
Reply #40 Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:20 AM
Reply #40 Sunday, July 15, 2001 5:20 AM
Some of us reticent folks who comment with nervous fingers might be even more of a wreck if we think our comments are being graded. I often don't comment for fear of not being very familar with art techniques, and thus, not providing constructive criticism.
My only two comments so far have really just been nods of approval, which I love to receive myself. I don't care if they earn me a point or not. It's the people that matter, and I want them to know they're appreciated.
My critique:encouragement ratio will probably always lean heavily towards encouragement. As such, am I just going to be wasting bandwidth under a system like the one proposed? Or not?
My only two comments so far have really just been nods of approval, which I love to receive myself. I don't care if they earn me a point or not. It's the people that matter, and I want them to know they're appreciated.
My critique:encouragement ratio will probably always lean heavily towards encouragement. As such, am I just going to be wasting bandwidth under a system like the one proposed? Or not?
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 2 of 5 | |
|
|---|
Reply #21 Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:13 PM
who is going to "really" dicipher the diff between a empty comment or a usefull one for the community to enjoy each others company while visiting a site???
listen to Paxx