Complaints about free ice cream
Saturday, August 28, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
One of the net's top bloggers, Steven Den Beste, has decided to hang up his hat for a bit. Tired of people who mistakenly think they are customers, he's decided to take a break.
I don't think most people realize how annoying it is when people who have paid nothing demand to be treated as if they're customers.
I've written an article on this at JoeUser that gives some specific examples and goes into more detail.
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CygnusXII
Reply #42 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:00 PM
Reply #42 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:00 PM
I thought I was tied like that, and wondered why I kept being just a Citizen, Oh! Well..i'll sort it out. I guess my prob is I predate DesktopX anyways. I remember Windowblinds in the pre 1.xx Days and I was using EFX, from the skinz.org guys.
and you're right we can respectfully agree to disagree.
and you're right we can respectfully agree to disagree.
Frogboy
Reply #43 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:07 PM
Reply #43 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:07 PM
Cygnus, one thing I'm still not clear on - have you previously purchased Object Desktop or the other Stardock products?
CygnusXII
Reply #44 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:10 PM
Reply #44 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:10 PM
Yes, I am attempting to Cross link right this moment. [email protected] This is my Second Subscription as a matter of fact.
CygnusXII
Reply #45 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:16 PM
Reply #45 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:16 PM
I have been around for a pretty long time, as a matter of fact. I remember when CursorX was a baby. Shoggot Modded Skinz.org and Bashed folks' Heads. Was involved in Heavy Equipment Suite and Did the CursorX theme for that. Did some small stuff for DesktopX, when it was a baby. Unfortunately I never backed that stuff up and only posted to Skinz.org at the time. I only did one thing for here that I can remember and it was pretty raw.
CygnusXII
Reply #46 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:22 PM
Reply #46 Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:22 PM
My one claim to fame (before I got married and lost alot ..alot of free time.)
"Meet Alberto Riccio, Desktop X Creator
by Madice
Alberto Riccio is a student and a Stardock programmer. He also owns a small company called RiccioSoft. "
http://www.teknidermy.com/issue/3/iviewalberto.html
Teknidermy Magazine
Alberto: Yes. It is quite irritating, but I think that non-english users are almost used to it.
Tek: Somehow skinners tend to design large cursors (CygnusXII and Buzz "The Big Cursor King" Hog come to mind). Why is that?
Alberto: Heh... Maybe that is just for fun or maybe they have a really high screen resolution.
"Meet Alberto Riccio, Desktop X Creator
by Madice
Alberto Riccio is a student and a Stardock programmer. He also owns a small company called RiccioSoft. "
http://www.teknidermy.com/issue/3/iviewalberto.html
Teknidermy Magazine
Alberto: Yes. It is quite irritating, but I think that non-english users are almost used to it.
Tek: Somehow skinners tend to design large cursors (CygnusXII and Buzz "The Big Cursor King" Hog come to mind). Why is that?
Alberto: Heh... Maybe that is just for fun or maybe they have a really high screen resolution.
Catize
Reply #47 Monday, August 30, 2004 4:07 PM
Reply #47 Monday, August 30, 2004 4:07 PM
I don't mind purchasing the programs that I use EVERYDAY on my pc...How would I feel if I came home from work every week and didn't get a paycheck...Yet people demanded all my time and effort be put to good use while I am there...well I don't think too many of us would be happy at all. I LOVE THIS SITE and I do appreciate all the hard work and time that ALL of the authors and creators here put into it just for my pc to be beautful and functional the way I CHOOSE. Thank you thank you thank you. There are lots of us out here that STILL care! 
Attila
Reply #48 Monday, August 30, 2004 8:31 PM
Reply #48 Monday, August 30, 2004 8:31 PM
Heh, users, potential customers, customers, ex-customers, bah, there couldn't possibly be a relation there! I think the topic at hand, that providers of a free product or service don't like getting demands from a few people who don't have anything constructive to say is blinding to legitimate input from those that do pay or could potentially pay for products and services.
A more recent example of this is experience is the release of AlienGUIse. Although it was released at 'no cost', the developer thought it was some how unfair of me to mention my dissatisfaction on how it was released and some problems I had associated with it. The initial response I received was very corse, but through private channels, as I explained my exact points and the emotion level came down, I'm certain the essence of my complaints were logical and accurate and good came out of it.
Additionally, I don't think anyone, with any sense at all would agree that harassing, abusive, and brash comments are constructive. Those of course should never be given in the first place, though, I can understand how frustration can allow those feelinsg to be conveyed (on both sides of the coin). However, comments in general, even those that don't offer praise, can be learned from, rather than dismissed completely (no matter who they come from).
Just because one has complaints, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't a customer (good customer even, if you want to measure it by how much they spent or how often they shop at your store). There was a comment some ways up there about most negative comments coming from those that aren't even paying customers. That may be true, I wouldn't know, sounds like an opinion to me, but Cygnus makes the point that I manged to dance around: Users ARE your potential customers, and quite arguably, your most valuable resource. Sure, returning customers (through your subscription based services), are good for business, but hell, isolating potential customers doesn't sound good for business. And to let it be known, I'm not posting this to keep the debate going, I wanted to discuss this with you privately, but this is a public matter that I feel needs to be addressed.
Just as each of us have freely expressed ourselves in this particular board and multiple viewpoints have been entertained, the same should hold true when the topic is a product or service provided. I fully understand that my viewpoint isn't widely shared, here atleast, but I think with a less skeptical, less condescending analysis, good can come out of it, if not the process at least. Also, I hope Brad, Jeff, and everyone knows, that I support the community (and have for years), which is why I'm so vocal on these matters.
Cheers! Anyone that wants to continue this with me in private, feel free to contact me: [email protected]
A more recent example of this is experience is the release of AlienGUIse. Although it was released at 'no cost', the developer thought it was some how unfair of me to mention my dissatisfaction on how it was released and some problems I had associated with it. The initial response I received was very corse, but through private channels, as I explained my exact points and the emotion level came down, I'm certain the essence of my complaints were logical and accurate and good came out of it.
Additionally, I don't think anyone, with any sense at all would agree that harassing, abusive, and brash comments are constructive. Those of course should never be given in the first place, though, I can understand how frustration can allow those feelinsg to be conveyed (on both sides of the coin). However, comments in general, even those that don't offer praise, can be learned from, rather than dismissed completely (no matter who they come from).
Just because one has complaints, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't a customer (good customer even, if you want to measure it by how much they spent or how often they shop at your store). There was a comment some ways up there about most negative comments coming from those that aren't even paying customers. That may be true, I wouldn't know, sounds like an opinion to me, but Cygnus makes the point that I manged to dance around: Users ARE your potential customers, and quite arguably, your most valuable resource. Sure, returning customers (through your subscription based services), are good for business, but hell, isolating potential customers doesn't sound good for business. And to let it be known, I'm not posting this to keep the debate going, I wanted to discuss this with you privately, but this is a public matter that I feel needs to be addressed.
Just as each of us have freely expressed ourselves in this particular board and multiple viewpoints have been entertained, the same should hold true when the topic is a product or service provided. I fully understand that my viewpoint isn't widely shared, here atleast, but I think with a less skeptical, less condescending analysis, good can come out of it, if not the process at least. Also, I hope Brad, Jeff, and everyone knows, that I support the community (and have for years), which is why I'm so vocal on these matters.
Cheers! Anyone that wants to continue this with me in private, feel free to contact me: [email protected]
Frogboy
Reply #49 Monday, August 30, 2004 11:10 PM
Reply #49 Monday, August 30, 2004 11:10 PM
Attila, I only wish there were more people like you who are able to intelligently articulate an opposing point of view. 
And one day, with a skin sample, I'll have an army of Attilas. Whohaha.
Attila
Reply #50 Monday, August 30, 2004 11:31 PM
Reply #50 Monday, August 30, 2004 11:31 PM
Heh, as ODD as it may sound, I'm generally the opposing voice no matter where I go. It's a gift and a curse.
stevedb227
Reply #51 Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:31 AM
Reply #51 Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:31 AM
I wish Steven a well deserved rest. Your article was excellent and opened my eyes to a problem I was oblivious to. Sitting here at the computer and lucky enough to download the occasional free piece of software from this site or others is a privelege that I take for granted. How often does a person, after downloading that widget or game mod and loving it, give the author a second thought. We might say he or she did a great job but then we move on. And of course I see your point, when a piece of software is downloaded and doesn't quite meet the 'standards' of some of these people you mention, I am sure they think that the programmer has ruined their day and want some type of retribution. Again, good writing and thanks for waking some of us up with the information.
Stephen Brockwell
Stephen Brockwell
craeonics
Reply #52 Wednesday, September 1, 2004 3:00 AM
Reply #52 Wednesday, September 1, 2004 3:00 AM
The world needs more Attila's (where the hell have you been hiding these last few years?).
The whole customer/non-customer discussion is besides the point. The real issue here is respect and lack thereof. Perhaps because of the indirect nature of the net you get to see people's egocentrical side more.
And with all that said, forget about the ice. I _demand_ free beer! Pronto!!
The whole customer/non-customer discussion is besides the point. The real issue here is respect and lack thereof. Perhaps because of the indirect nature of the net you get to see people's egocentrical side more.
And with all that said, forget about the ice. I _demand_ free beer! Pronto!!
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Reply #41 Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:56 PM