Should Windows 98/ME be supported?
Wednesday, August 7, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
It's frustrating. I go over to download.com and see user reviews on WindowBlinds:http://download.com.com/3000-2326-10131236.html?tag=sptlt
And reading it, you'd think that WindowBlinds was junk. But we know it's not. We know it works really really well, especially on Windows 2000 and XP.
The problem is that on Windows 98 and ME, things get dodgy. Those versions of Windows have a limited number of GDI resources. So sometimes desktop enhancements (not just WindowBlinds) work perfectly and sometimes tweaking needs to be done to them.
According to the stats on WinCustomize, Only 19% of the visitors here even use Windows 98/ME. A year ago it was 45%.
This raises the question - how long should these cutomization unfriendly versions of Windows be supported? We're finding it to be a huge PR problem. People download customization software on their Windows 98 box, some percentage of them has problems due to the crummy neature of Windows 98/ME, and then when they eventually upgrade to a decent version of Windows they only remember that the software in question gave them problems and hence we end up with "I tried WindowBlinds and it was unstable" spread like gospel.
http://download.com.com/3000-2326-10131236.html?tag=sptlt
As I write this, fewer than 7 out of 10 people actually had a positive experience with it. Obviously there are some other issues involved such as registered users don't download the shareware so over time, the only users left downloading the shareware are people who have (for whatever reason) chosen not to register. But it's hard to help wondering that Windows 98Frogboy is also a major factor.
With only 1 out of 5 people on this site running Win98Frogboy in a world where 70% of desktops are running Win98/ME, it really demonstrates that those who are into customization or have a positive experience in customizing their comptuers are running Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
Therefore, what do you think? Should support for Windows 98Frogboy users be phased out and if so when?
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nulogic1
Reply #82 Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:45 PM
Reply #82 Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:45 PM
Yes,just by the nature of this conversation states the inevitable evolution of all Win based software.
For us PC boys who are always stretching the limits of our home made devices while being reliant on MS to supply the keys to our new machines...and as long as MS is always thowing us a bug or two..we PC boys will always be evolving. So, why not stop upgrading the 98nulogic1 product when it becomes fiscally inhibitable for StarDock. Then just offer it as a limited freebe noting that this software is limited for use on the XP and beyond platforms ONLY and USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
So, is it fiscally harmful to include the 98nulogic1 users? Personally I haven't made the dive into XPdom. We are still waiting for the drivers to catch up as we have expenseive perifials that haven't developed drivers for XP yet.( or ever?)
If I ever have an extra C'note in my wallet I usually buy more ram or a faster CPU then to put it in B.G.'s pocket.
If I'm going to run Photoshop or Flash I will unload Desktop X. I run 98 on two of our PCs and ME on the other here at our home office. Obviously the last upgrade was to ME'. After that ripoff I have the hardest time trusting MS and am very reluctant to upgrade anytime soon just so that I/we can have a unique view of Windows on our PCs that nobody other than us see anyway.
I know how you must feel as I'm originally from Michigan myself. I have experienced those "after the snow melts" moments many a time. You guys are doing a real knockout job on OD'and think that if you really pooled your resources...could come up with your own OS that would really knock our Windows out! Thanks for being there for us..Mike
For us PC boys who are always stretching the limits of our home made devices while being reliant on MS to supply the keys to our new machines...and as long as MS is always thowing us a bug or two..we PC boys will always be evolving. So, why not stop upgrading the 98nulogic1 product when it becomes fiscally inhibitable for StarDock. Then just offer it as a limited freebe noting that this software is limited for use on the XP and beyond platforms ONLY and USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
So, is it fiscally harmful to include the 98nulogic1 users? Personally I haven't made the dive into XPdom. We are still waiting for the drivers to catch up as we have expenseive perifials that haven't developed drivers for XP yet.( or ever?)
If I ever have an extra C'note in my wallet I usually buy more ram or a faster CPU then to put it in B.G.'s pocket.
If I'm going to run Photoshop or Flash I will unload Desktop X. I run 98 on two of our PCs and ME on the other here at our home office. Obviously the last upgrade was to ME'. After that ripoff I have the hardest time trusting MS and am very reluctant to upgrade anytime soon just so that I/we can have a unique view of Windows on our PCs that nobody other than us see anyway.
I know how you must feel as I'm originally from Michigan myself. I have experienced those "after the snow melts" moments many a time. You guys are doing a real knockout job on OD'and think that if you really pooled your resources...could come up with your own OS that would really knock our Windows out! Thanks for being there for us..Mike
Bob7201
Reply #83 Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:14 PM
Reply #83 Saturday, August 10, 2002 10:14 PM
Im running a comp that most of you have probably forgotton about, a P1 running win. 95, and I have few problems with winblinds, just because I have to close a few programs that I dont use anyway. I dont care if you want to update everything to 2k/xp, because Ive already been outlawed as far as I know, but I like the few skins that I have (xp blue) so Ill just keep using that whenever I get bored of this ugly grey bar at the bottom of my screen. thx stardock for making one of the few programs that doesnt give me 15 errors that say I need win.98 or higher. and you can update as soon as you want (hopefully I will too, this system is holding me back)
one very satisfied user.
one very satisfied user.
Colorado 33
Reply #84 Sunday, August 11, 2002 2:02 AM
Reply #84 Sunday, August 11, 2002 2:02 AM
Please donate your money to the non-XP users, so they too can benefit from all the riches and wonders in the pc world! 
www.upgradenowdonations.com
www.upgradenowdonations.com
wulfn1
Reply #85 Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:11 PM
Reply #85 Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:11 PM
I apologise.
Evidentily I misunderstood the thread way back when.
I am not worried that I won't be able to upgrade my stardock products beyond a certain point. I am more concerned with the lack of available skins that I will be able to use.
In icon packager, there have been so few new packages available, and now the latest exclude my OS. So far all windowblinds skins will go both ways. Object Bar has had a dearth of new offerings *note ob is the one link we non-xp users have with the xp world. it allows us to see our desktop in a similar way to your desktop that's why we like it so much.* and ObjectX ,while confusing to those of us not familiar with using object technology, still manages to give us some skins to work with.
I just worried that there would be no more wb skins available that would work with both os's. I see it happening already elsewhere in wincustomize. That was why I was so upset.
I guess I'll go find the old blankie and skulk to my doghouse and hide under it.
Mea Culpa for dragging the dead horse thru the mud.
Wulfie
Evidentily I misunderstood the thread way back when.
I am not worried that I won't be able to upgrade my stardock products beyond a certain point. I am more concerned with the lack of available skins that I will be able to use.
In icon packager, there have been so few new packages available, and now the latest exclude my OS. So far all windowblinds skins will go both ways. Object Bar has had a dearth of new offerings *note ob is the one link we non-xp users have with the xp world. it allows us to see our desktop in a similar way to your desktop that's why we like it so much.* and ObjectX ,while confusing to those of us not familiar with using object technology, still manages to give us some skins to work with.
I just worried that there would be no more wb skins available that would work with both os's. I see it happening already elsewhere in wincustomize. That was why I was so upset.
I guess I'll go find the old blankie and skulk to my doghouse and hide under it.
Mea Culpa for dragging the dead horse thru the mud.
Wulfie
Waddle
Reply #86 Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:39 PM
Reply #86 Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:39 PM
I have ME, and yes it sucks, Id love XP, but im 15 and cant afford it, I use object bar and windowblinds, and icon packager (which im considering deleting cos it doesnt work properly for me) it doesnt slow my comp down that much, and crashes no more than it did before. I just hate ME, its crap. I wouldnt like stardock to kill 98\ME support as they look so ugly, they NEED to be skinned.
Until I can affortd XP, Im stuck with ME
Until I can affortd XP, Im stuck with ME
wulfn1
Reply #87 Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:37 PM
Reply #87 Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:37 PM
Just a rejoinder to pdoland,
in your comment you asked "But I've got a question - are you expecting MS to release a never version of Plus! 98? Fat chance. But you expect Stardock to release new versions of OD for 98?"
well, my answer to that is, as follows:
I can daily download new plus!themes. There are countless themers out there supplying me and will continue to if I choose to utilise that program. Those themers will continue to produce beautiful little packages that add a touch of difference to the boring sameness of windows products. (I heard xp only has three real xpthemes available... hmmmm no wonder they are purchasing stardock products.) I never expected stardock to produce newer better products for the same old OS. I did however expect to see new and exciting skins available at different sites around the net.
Until recently I was seeing that. Within the last two months though, I have seen countless crashes of servers, lockouts of sites due to hardware and software failure (I wonder do those servers and webhosts use XP exclusively?) , and what seems to be a subtle campaign to create pay only sites for downloading skins.(the free sites are having quite a few problems lately..odd that..)
My husband paid for the product I use. I looked forward to having a full year of new redecorating ideas for my pc. Now I am coming to the conclusion if I want to continue to benefit from the product purchased, I must soon pay for a seperate "subscription" in order to enjoy the same benefits.
Then I read a comment on the homepage of this site suggesting there will be no support of the OS I use in the near future(that was the impression I got from these comments)
Now, lets say you purchased,......... hmm,.... a cell phone.
you signed a year long contract, and were told the phone would work in your calling area perfectly. you get home and play with the phone only to find out , yeah it works perfectly, but you must stand with your head tilted to the north and your left foot facing west to get that quality of reception promised. This is not a problem for you though ,because you are familiar with the points on the compass, and it is not a bother to tilt your head when speaking.
Now, three months into your contract, you recieve news that there is a new technology available for your cell phone that will make it so you only have to tilt your head on tuesdays, but it will cost XX amount of dollars to get the upgrade. unfortunately, current users of the original phone won't be getting the coverage they once were, but will now be limited to a fifty mile radius. the new improved phone system users will have unlimited coverage and a shiny new package and only have to tilt their heads slightly and only on tuesdays.
How would you feel if you were that customer ? I can tell you. I feel like I should have asked for a new vacuum instead of telling my husband surprise me.I feel like maybe he wasted money on a product I might not be able to get the full advantage of due to the equipment I have. I understand I can still use my object desktop software. I just won't be able to use any of the newest skins available because wincustomize and stardock have decided we are passe, and outmoded and shouldn't be online if we don't have a six digit income.
That's how I am feeling after the events of the past weeks in the windows skinning world.
Wulf
(there goes that damned dead horse again. )
in your comment you asked "But I've got a question - are you expecting MS to release a never version of Plus! 98? Fat chance. But you expect Stardock to release new versions of OD for 98?"
well, my answer to that is, as follows:
I can daily download new plus!themes. There are countless themers out there supplying me and will continue to if I choose to utilise that program. Those themers will continue to produce beautiful little packages that add a touch of difference to the boring sameness of windows products. (I heard xp only has three real xpthemes available... hmmmm no wonder they are purchasing stardock products.) I never expected stardock to produce newer better products for the same old OS. I did however expect to see new and exciting skins available at different sites around the net.
Until recently I was seeing that. Within the last two months though, I have seen countless crashes of servers, lockouts of sites due to hardware and software failure (I wonder do those servers and webhosts use XP exclusively?) , and what seems to be a subtle campaign to create pay only sites for downloading skins.(the free sites are having quite a few problems lately..odd that..)
My husband paid for the product I use. I looked forward to having a full year of new redecorating ideas for my pc. Now I am coming to the conclusion if I want to continue to benefit from the product purchased, I must soon pay for a seperate "subscription" in order to enjoy the same benefits.
Then I read a comment on the homepage of this site suggesting there will be no support of the OS I use in the near future(that was the impression I got from these comments)
Now, lets say you purchased,......... hmm,.... a cell phone.
you signed a year long contract, and were told the phone would work in your calling area perfectly. you get home and play with the phone only to find out , yeah it works perfectly, but you must stand with your head tilted to the north and your left foot facing west to get that quality of reception promised. This is not a problem for you though ,because you are familiar with the points on the compass, and it is not a bother to tilt your head when speaking.
Now, three months into your contract, you recieve news that there is a new technology available for your cell phone that will make it so you only have to tilt your head on tuesdays, but it will cost XX amount of dollars to get the upgrade. unfortunately, current users of the original phone won't be getting the coverage they once were, but will now be limited to a fifty mile radius. the new improved phone system users will have unlimited coverage and a shiny new package and only have to tilt their heads slightly and only on tuesdays.
How would you feel if you were that customer ? I can tell you. I feel like I should have asked for a new vacuum instead of telling my husband surprise me.I feel like maybe he wasted money on a product I might not be able to get the full advantage of due to the equipment I have. I understand I can still use my object desktop software. I just won't be able to use any of the newest skins available because wincustomize and stardock have decided we are passe, and outmoded and shouldn't be online if we don't have a six digit income.
That's how I am feeling after the events of the past weeks in the windows skinning world.
Wulf
(there goes that damned dead horse again. )
SkinneRyan
Reply #88 Monday, August 12, 2002 3:56 AM
Reply #88 Monday, August 12, 2002 3:56 AM
I think you're missing the point a bit there Wulfn1.
The old versions will still work with 9x, it's just that one of the newer versions won't (presumably 4.0). The skins will still work with WB version 3, it's just that it may not support some new features.
Anyway, the current versions are skinning 9x as well as it's possible for them to, and to continue support for an OS that would work just as well with the older versions of the program just dosen't make sense.
And by the time that Stardock phase out 9x, chances are that no one will be using it anymore.
The old versions will still work with 9x, it's just that one of the newer versions won't (presumably 4.0). The skins will still work with WB version 3, it's just that it may not support some new features.
Anyway, the current versions are skinning 9x as well as it's possible for them to, and to continue support for an OS that would work just as well with the older versions of the program just dosen't make sense.
And by the time that Stardock phase out 9x, chances are that no one will be using it anymore.
reaper67
Reply #89 Monday, August 12, 2002 1:40 PM
Reply #89 Monday, August 12, 2002 1:40 PM
I don't use WB on 98SE, but mainly because my machine is quite low-spec (K62 550MHz) - WB 3.4 is the best yet, and I have had no problems with it at all...but given the choice between running Desktop X OR WB, it was no choice at all - DX won hands down!!! I'll run WB when I upgrade to XP (next year, hopefully!)
Dreww
Reply #90 Monday, August 12, 2002 4:20 PM
Reply #90 Monday, August 12, 2002 4:20 PM
To me the answer is simple. Stardock, which is a business afterall, should continue to support earlier versions of Windows as long as it is more profitable for them to do so. I know that sounds harsh but when it becoms more expensive to support these systems than the amount of money generated by 98Dreww user subscriptions, they should stop supporting them. In the meantime there should be disclaimers put on all programs and products and skins which will work slow or be buggy on these systems.
Reality Bytes
Reality Bytes
Tamarind
Reply #91 Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:38 AM
Reply #91 Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:38 AM
I run WB on ME and have no problems at all. The reason why I don't have XP is because it just came out last year. I don't want to upgrade and then discover that XP is not compatible with my printer, scanner, web camera, game controllers etc, not to mention the tons of games I have. I'm a college student and I bought those with my own money so I want them to last a long time! I'll wait until XP gets a little bit better with compatibility. Until then I'll use my ME thankyouverymuch.
As far as when it should be phased, I think Stardock should give it another 2 years. I'm sure Microsoft will have made XP a bit more compatible with other peripherals and peripherals will more likely to be compatible with XP by then and more people will be less concerned with compatibility
As far as when it should be phased, I think Stardock should give it another 2 years. I'm sure Microsoft will have made XP a bit more compatible with other peripherals and peripherals will more likely to be compatible with XP by then and more people will be less concerned with compatibility
Leah Underwood
Reply #92 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:02 AM
Reply #92 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:02 AM
I have used Wb on 98se and win me and had very minor probs. It runs much better on my new sys. with XP. Most people will upg to XP when they purchase their new sys. like I did. I suggest support for at least another 2yrs, by then win98Leah Underwood will be obsolete anyway. And folks who have those OS and subscriptions will have upgd. As for as the compatibliy issues raised about XP, I found new drivers for my hardware and software on the vendor's websites. In my opinion XP is most stable OS microsoft ever made.
lau nistor
Reply #93 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:52 AM
Reply #93 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:52 AM
I agree with Ken Chapin! I use a P 152 Mhz, 16 Mb Ram, first edition 98, an WB 3,4 runs excellent! Outstanding!!
1. because of money I won't upgrade so fast. First get a better computer.
2. why upgrade, still the XP has many a problem that i do not want, as I saw at my friends.
3. i use all possible icons from mac and from XP with no problem. It takes a little effort and knowledge
how to make them work in a 24bit video environement. (but it's little. evidence can be submitted to applyers...)
4. and the least, making the 98 appear and customize close to the XP was the most impressive thing about WB. at least with me. it seemed impossible, but they did it!!! Excellency as such is not to be laid of!!
Outstanding!! 1. because of money I won't upgrade so fast. First get a better computer.
2. why upgrade, still the XP has many a problem that i do not want, as I saw at my friends.
3. i use all possible icons from mac and from XP with no problem. It takes a little effort and knowledge
how to make them work in a 24bit video environement. (but it's little. evidence can be submitted to applyers...) 4. and the least, making the 98 appear and customize close to the XP was the most impressive thing about WB. at least with me. it seemed impossible, but they did it!!! Excellency as such is not to be laid of!!
lau nistor
Reply #94 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:55 AM
Reply #94 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:55 AM
(continued)
5. the last but not the least...about XP look on 98 by Stardock. That's the first thing!!!
5. the last but not the least...about XP look on 98 by Stardock. That's the first thing!!!
Malikai
Reply #95 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:22 PM
Reply #95 Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:22 PM
i use 98 but it has been heavily tweaked to the point that it will do what ever i want and for xp *quivers in fear* it's home edition is so limited and locked out that it's utterly useless to the advanced user if i get xp i would only use pro and not home
lau nistor
Reply #96 Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:38 AM
Reply #96 Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:38 AM
The same goes for me too Malikai !
I've learned my 98 inside out and tweaked it in every possible way, and now I'm just too familiar with it.
And about XP and WindowsBlinds...the XP can be skinned quite well without it...to skin XP is not too much of a marvel, but 98...
!I've learned my 98 inside out and tweaked it in every possible way, and now I'm just too familiar with it.
And about XP and WindowsBlinds...the XP can be skinned quite well without it...to skin XP is not too much of a marvel, but 98...
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Reply #81 Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:54 AM
That is my say,
Cheers,
Anthony Mark Sulivan