Just to clarify [pedantry is a pain]....'terrorism' is an ideology....it doesn't 'happen' at all.

'Terrorist acts' do, however .....

Don't forget that propaganda about the threats of terrorist acts is one way of imposing more controls on a the citizenry of a country.  We have already seen it happen after 9-11.  Fear is a very useful tool for those in power.  Create enough paranoia about a group or groups and the people are not as hostile to a little more fat being trimmed off the constitution that was made to protect us from our own government as well as outside enemies.  George Orwell had it right , he just had the timing a little off.

Is your world safe from this, is what you should be worried about

I think his plastic surgeon should be struck off.

Personally...I feel people can believe what ever religion they want to feel secure in their insecurity. But when those beliefs affect my rights as a human being to live in peace or takes a country to war over them and innocent people lose the right to live...thats where "I" draw the line. Keep thy religions to thyself...period. Pray to invisible men....goats...whatever floats your boat...just keep it to thyself.

As far as I'm concerned all religions are a scam...hypocritical and should be locked away somewhere with pandoras box or in some rubber room somewhere. No good has ever come from religions...only death. And since when has a god needed money or a shopping mall or a ferris wheel...I mean seriously...do people really believe this kind of crap? Sorry if I offended anyone by saying that...but I find religions offensive and terroristic as well. Oh....and the bulletproof pope mobile...now there's faith in action! Even he knows its all bull!

Kind of hypocritical considering the second paragraph. 

Is not Stating your own Beliefs while Insulting those of others, being as intolerant as those Zealots who push Religion on those who choose not to believe?

Guess we should close all the religion based charities and keep the $$ donated to the Churches Soup Kitchens, housing for the poor,clothing donations etc? Religion in it's true form benefits all. The love and peace of people coming together to do good in the world IMO is irreplaceable.

I can pick appart anything and only focus on the bad, but It still would not be the full truth.

It's sad, that most wars are over Religion.. Religon is meant to spread the word of "peace".. ironic.. isn't it?

People should let others believe in what they want to believe in, and keep their religion to themselves, everybody seems to be Bible-bashing everyone else these days, religion can be a private thing, we don't need to push it onto others, people will find it themselves if they look hard enough, hello MORMONS we don't WANT you knocking on our doors.. ya never know, might start a war

Not sure if most wars were over religion.  War of independance, 1812, civil war, ww1, ww2, korea, VN were over ideals.  Now, the crusades, mayby the 2 isrealy wars were.  I'am sure if I wanted to spend more time, I could list a bunch more for both side, but I don't.

A lot of wars were to get the pesky invading pillaging Brits out.

Fortunately the best judges in England selected my ancestors for repatriation to Australia.

No...the FAITH of good-hearted people benefits all.  Religion is just a mark of tribal distinction which was necessary for survival in ancient times when Man had to endure the wild for survival.  Right now it (religion as opposed to spiritual faith) only serves to separate us, one from another, and delineate who our enemies are as dictated by ancient times.

It depends on what you choose to read out of it..  many choose to follow any reason to hate others, and to distort whats being read. I have yet to ever hear "everyone else is crap,or doomed,etc. much less kill non believers, at any time in my life.

My MOM *rest her soul* Ran Her churches Home bound ministry, as well as the soup Kitchens. Even dieing of cancer she still did her rounds and Delved out meals inbetween her chemo sessions for months, often barely able to walk her self... Why? She loved people and she believed even tho she was dieing, that there were people out there who were worse off than she was, and needed help. She handed out no literature and asked nothing in return what she got back was immeasurable. When she finally passed she was given a 3 day ceremony reserved for Bishops etc. during that time the chruch was constantly filled with those who she helped in some way shape or form. The love they had for her was not any thing one could buy..

She passed owning a 15 yo car and living in a small trailer. There was no money to be had.. No power.. no glory.. just a simple woman trying to make a difference, and in Her own words " being the best Catholic I can be." Her Beliefs drove her to go above and beyond simple handing out a check to some charity.... not greed, nor a Desire for power. The only people that ever disliked her were the very type of poeple you all seem to call "Religious". I call them Fake..

As I have said before Only focusing on the downsides of any thing will paint it in a bad light.. I choose to see the good that comes from things.

Growing up with MOM taught me to see the good in all and know the bad side is there But not to focus on it. " You will find what you look for. If you only look for the Bad in things you will surely not be disapointed" But if instead you look for the good, you will find your own inner peace"

I do find it amazing that instead of blaming those responsible for atrocities, People still wish to blame their excuses for comitting the crimes. So if folks start killing people in the name of skinning, then skinning is to blame? No it will be just some other lame excuse for bad people to act badly.

Comon people the first thing in an enlightened society is placing blame where it really goes. Until we as a society take responsibility for our actions instead of placing it on some lame excuse * the bible made me do it* we will be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

If there was no religion,I guarantee there would stil be death,war,hate,etc as those who wish to kill and hate will still do so under some other EXCUSE.

If one is only doing the charity work for gods recognition, then they have missed the whole point of Giving, it comes from the heart not greed. I was taught that in Sunday school. A pure heart does not give in hopes of retribution, but gives for the sake of giving...

Indeed!

I just said a prayer for this wonderful person's soul, just after the prayer for my late wife.

Words of wisdom. Very much like: "If you demand perfection of yourself, you will be  frustrated. If you demand it of others, you will be disappointed."

Just do the best you can, with what you have.. never give to get.. give because you want to make others happy.

Time to see the glass half full guys, what's the point of worrying about everything, life will pass you by, and I know there has to be some awesome stuff going on out there that we never hear about, focus on that, don't become pre-occupied with the doom & gloom in the world.

Doc & HG, very nice, positive words 

That's because you have the luxury of living in a free country where independence supercedes any hand of "the church,"  and you haven't done enough reading about church history to understand that what you are practicing now is Americanized Christianity--a/k/a basterized and/or watered down version of what the true movement was all about.  

Example: But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth; but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee.

Doesn't get any plainer than that.  God, in Deuteronomy, commanded his faithful to "utterly destroy" whole tribes of people.  If you read the rest of the story, He elaborates punishments for not carrying out the utter destruction of them.  

If you think this verse and the others in the Old Testament that command utter destruction of people, stoning of disobedient children, killing of unfaithful wives,  etc., are verses that "shouldn't be read" then why did the church fathers keep those verses in their transcripts?  They cut out a whole bunch of things that had absolutely nothing to do with executing people that didn't toe the line -- why leave these bloody, hateful verses in?  Why doesn't the Pope declare them null and void?  

The Bible isn't the only bloody Holy book.  The Koran is pretty big on describing the glorious destruction of the nonbelievers, if you take the time to read it--not to mention the extreme sexism and dehuminizing commandments that faith has against women.  If reading these divine works the way they were written is "wrong" -  then why does the supreme deity even allow those works to exist?  Why would a supreme deity even allow the opportunity for one of His/It's creation to misinterpret "The Word" and cause pain and destruction by allowing ambiguous texts to survive persecutions?

Untold amounts of recorded words were utterly destroyed at the ancient library Alexandria (destroyed a few times, once as ordered by Christian Emperor Theodosius I in 391 A.D. because of the library's "pagan" books, and the last time in 642 A.D. at the hands of the Muslims).  We can only guess at the cultural and academic advances we'd have had those books survived (would be nice to know how the pyramids were created).  The entire Olmec/Toltic/Mayan/Aztec academic works were utterly destroyed by priests and conquistators because "they were pagan" and we can only guess at what we could have learned had their records survived...so if this deity is so supreme, and so loves His creation as the holy books depict, why allow verses that can easily be misread and used to hurt others, to be preserved, when obviously lesser works that weren't able to be  misconstrued as an order to attack were utterly destroyed by people who belonged to the church and were carrying out the church's orders?

And choosing to only seeing things in good light removes any hope of correcting the downsides.

Interesting little research study you should read about that took place at Santa Clara University:  http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11283475?source=most_emailed

The study, using paid volunteers from the South Bay, is similar to the famous 1974 "obedience study'' by the late Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. In the wake of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann's trial, Milgram was troubled by the willingness of people to obey authorities — even if it conflicted with their own conscience...

"The conclusion is not: 'Gosh isn't this a horrible commentary on human nature,' or 'these people were so sadistic,'' said Burger.
"It shows the opposite — that there are situational forces that have a much greater impact on our behavior than most people recognize,'' he said.


It's not the people wishing to blame their excuses, EH...it's the dynamic.  As an atheist, it was only a hop, skip and a jump for me to become simultaneously, a naturalist.  I believe that it's human nature for people to behave in certain ways, and I don't believe in the concept of free will the way most people define it--I believe that behavior is CAUSED, that the cause of a person's behavior is determined by their chemistry, their environment, and their history.  If their history tells them that there's a god that demands they exterminate an entire race of people, then they will not see reason, and they won't know that they're behaving in an evil way, because they're TRUTH is that their god determines what is evil and what is good and if their god tells them extermination is good, then to not exterminate, is evil.

LOL!!!

But yeah, people usually have ulterior motives and give to get something in return, it kinda goes against the entire reason for giving in the first place, which is an act of selflessness, not selfishness

Sticking to the thread or subject line and following other realms...

1. Every time you pull up to a gas station and by gas - you are funding some kind of terror. Being that most of the oil sold here in the US and EU is from the middle east.

2. Mainly because of their religion and/or decent. Being that most of the targets where directed at said Jews and Indian people that where not of the sect which except Westerners as being friends and countrymen as such. Meaning people of the US and EU who are considered the enemy.

3. Those people over there Pakistan have been fighting over Kashmir and basically India for years and years now. The true reason because of all this has been nothing more than religion in both countries. Plus the fact that religion is not truely now part of that war being that the terrorist want it to be this way again by doing such acts to bring the countries into subjection of the religion and a war they want with said religion. Thus you have them trying to instill fear in the world today and that of it's enemy. To put it lightly...

Fact being they only plan to do just that scare others by killing the few as they can and getting their message heard to those that will except it as fear of their ideas for this religion.

We here in the US do not have this fear! we live in structured enviroments which protect and put us at ease. But we all figure things together to see what we can do to each other because we see others as just that - others - not the same as we are. People place barriers before each other being religious or discriminatory. Thus we are not as one and can see each other as one. But as in these other countries they try so hard to be as one - we do not.

Kind of like the ole saying Together we stand! Divided we fall.. So is the idea of terror. To divide us and bring us to what is their idea of whatever it is that they want of us. Being in most cases "death". But in others it would be to be part of their religion as such.

What we really need is to find our true self and others as our self. With that in mind to finding this we see each other as ourself... this is hard for everyone of us is not the same. But if we can not see ourself how can we see others also? Kind of mixed up eh?

Making it simple back in the older days of liberty and justice for all. We as a country placed our country in the hands of God. Saying One nation under God and such.

But we have taken that out now and we are looking for a replacement. Maybe..?

Till we find ourself and/or our country again... we being divided by fear and selfishness. Fearing even each other and who cares as such we are beginning to become of this nation still under God in which we Trust! As it says on every bill we have in our wallets or banks.

So my point is nothing here at all except that terror is just what it is at that Terror The terror we make it to be as what we fear and that fear of each other for whatever may be our reasons! Not just our true enemies but that of our fellow Americans!

Some how to win we must unite and overcome this fear by being one again. Stop worrying about who has what religion and/or looks funny and such. But that we are all the same and still live in the same place we did 222 years ago. Just as the people that founded this great nation did back then. Today and tomorrow is the true story to be told and I hope to see it as a free American unafraid of some terror no matter what that may be. At ease with the world and my fellow Americans as they are truely.

true, but the way you put it you made all those within church or those doing deeds for the church sound like they are only doing so for some sort of gain, or power. Neither of which my mom got or wanted..

Now you must realize that the Bible was not written by god. Even if you believed in him, you must realize it was written by the hand of man, and such will be tainted by the very mind set of the one's writing it. it also comes to mind that over the thousand's of years like History books, it has been reshaped to fit the Ideals of those in charge during subesquent rewritings. * current history books omit or alter things I was taught in school.*  So to Hold the book in the fullest sence as the *True word* is silly at best.  not to mention Deuteronomy was not of the orginal writings but after deemed not to be written by moses, to be claimed that "the High Priest Hilkiah finds an ancient lost scroll in the Temple and takes it to king Josiah; what Josiah reads there causes him to embark on a program of religious reform, suppressing the worship of all other gods".  thus not of Jesus's teachings but some scroll some one found and claimed to be the next book of the bible. but in reading the works and teachings of jesus, this scroll does not fit. It would look as more of a king or other trying to write religion to fit his agenda and use it as an excuse to wage war on others as well impress his morailty on those he subdues, all in the name of god.

As well as doing such would violate the commandment * thou shall not kill*. So I find it hard to believe this scroll Was coined by the almighty who sent his son to preach love, humility,forgiveness, etc..

I see the bible as more of a guideline to live by, i read the good works and the wisdom behind it, while realizing the hatred and unjust entries could be nothing more than historians/ Kings etc, trying to use it for their own purposes. As we all know It has been added to and edited, by those in power.

If people chose to blindly follow what leaders told them God said, as throught much of time the masses were not able to read to verify, and willingly break a commandment. Then they are as guilty as those who chose to send them off. Using the Excuse " I was ordered to do it" Is still just an excuse.

You must concede that religion also helped shape morality even in todays most basic laws some of the 10 commandments still hold.

thou shall not kill. Murder is against the law.

Thou shall not commit adultery. Adultery is still one of the top reasons for Legal divorce and often used to win a divorce against ones spouce.

Thou shall not steal. Still illegal last i remembered..

Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. perjury is still punishable in a court of law.

The seven deadly sins helped shape the face of morality even more.

Most morality comes from some sort of spiritual and or religious teachings. So for some to say Religion and spiritual enlightenment only brings hatred and death is IMO silly.

Also, While I choose to focus on the good in things and go with the betterment of Human kind, I do not turn a blind eye to those who would use any excuse, "even religion" to subdue me or others. I realize there has been tons of Atrocities in the name of religion, but I do not believe *God came down and told them to* Most of what ive read can be chalked up to Humans changing religion to fit thier wants.

Right on the money

The Bible is like the chinese whispers game, by the time you get to present day [last person] it's an entirely different product.

So much has been omitted, like the Quabala/Tree of Life, now frowned upon as it's Occult related [I studied the Occult for many years.. no nothing evil, it's not what it's about] yet it was in the Bible at one point, and not as anything satanic, or evil... but it makes one wonder.. What else has been taken out..?

I'd love to see the original Hebrew text, before mankind doctored it to suit his own beliefs, or rather, the beliefs he wanted to push onto others... it would be like comparing chalk & cheese.