Excellent question - and a fair one.

I am more critical than most about some skins - but why? For me skinning is about creativity and imagination, it is about making something which is about you and your uniqueness. Simply making a skin which is like any other skin is tired and unworthy.

Create something new and fresh. Make sure all the parts are yours, and are unique. Take ownership of your work. Make sure there is no doubt every ounce of a skin originated in the depths of your creativity and skill.

But not only that. It's also about caring - care about your skin, put in the time, dedication and love, and bring your skin as close to perfection as you can. Some have more skill than others with creating graphics, but time well spent by the least skillful graphic artist will bring rewards. When you look at a skin which has had care bestowed upon it, you can tell.

Detail is everything. What separates a Master from a skinner, is the attention to detail. Carelessness and /or lazyness costs - a part finished skin over which time and dedication have not fully been given, sends the wrong message out to the user; it says you can't be bothered. If that is the case, then why be suprised when you attract criticism and/or low ratings.
Dot the 'i's and cross the 't's, and people will notice.

Finally look inward. Can you honestly say this is the best you could do, or are you letting self importance and ego get in the way of a self critique? This is down to you. You know the truth!

I'll have something to add in the morning. My wife kicked my butt playing nofriendo for whiskey shots.   

Lies, Fuzzy Logic, all LIES!

Steve Bovis copied everything, and had to pay all the devs- err, got paid handsomnly!

Limbo of the Lost

I am not a master...not even an apprentice... I am a citizen.. But I had to say:
1 Nice topic kitty aunty
2 Equally good reply Fuzzy uncle.
3 We should use our skins at least two days before uploading.. after it gets finished..

In my opinion, skinning have two sides, the quality and the fun, you need booth to not
become a machine, it's all about balance the things.
I've seen some people getting mad
commenting peoples skins when they don't like 'em and you know, it's easier trash than
give a constructive advice (sometimes they can get you wrong and take the advice as a punch

In my opinion, skinning have two sides, the quality and the fun, you need booth to not
become a machine, it's all about balance the things.
I've seen some people getting mad
commenting peoples skins when they don't like 'em and you know, it's easier trash than
give a constructive advice (sometimes they can get you wrong and take the advice as a punch)
One thing we can't forget is the freedom to create and upload what we like/want, of course
you will not like everything for one reason of another but we can thank, help, advice or
even ignore, but try not to trash peoples works, this will push 'em away and only make the community weaker.

PS. sorry for my English

I think that the better masters have a unique ability of using subtle blends of graphics and fonts that enhance your computer use. They seem to understand when too much is too much. Some skinners seem to act like computer useage is some evil thing that is just getting in their way of showing what they can do. Analogy; If I take my car in for a paint job, I do not want the Mona Lisa painted on the windshield.   

That works with everyone except IR.

In my opinion some very accomplished and what I would qualify as "Professional" skinners are active in this thread. I think Kitty starting this thread is very creative in itself. I think ANYONE that has started or just thinking about starting would derive a priceless benefit by reading and re-reading especially Fuzzy's post up there. I think it's one of the very best verbal descriptions of what can go on in the mind and the desire of a top quality graphics designer/assembler. Congratulations on this thread and all the posts that have been made so far! RAD

There is not really much to add to Fuzzy's Reply #1.

Just from my very personal point of view:

I admire all those artists that create unique looking skins every time. Whether they be Masters or newcomers, if a skin has a unique design and is compatible with my OS, I will download it. Even if I only download it to open the start-panel ten times in a row in order to admire the animations, or to enjoy the mouse-overs on the buttons.
Running such a skin is a bit like opening a present; you never know what's in it.

On the other hand, I find it rather disappointing if a skin gets re-uploaded 10 times with only minor alterations. That's not just the case with WBs. A couple of years ago this was really a big problem with bootskins and logons.
Skins would get uploaded as: "XP-blue", "XP-red", "XP-yellow", "XP-slightly-darker-blue", "XP-even-darker-blue", "XP-the-same-blue-as-original-but-with-a-square-button-instead-of-a-round-one"...... you get the idea.

I think this problem should be handled the same way as it was back then. The author will be asked to make a bundle (or subskins) out of their (almost identical) skins, and to (re)-upload them as one big package.

That way the truly original skins get an equal amount of (hard earned) time in the spot-light as the 'slightly changed' ones.

No no, it was "Vista orb blue" "Vista fractal green" "Vista 335" "Vista 346" etc etc.

Uh, oh, my fault...

hehe  

I am probably the worst master to take advice from,my skins dont get downloaded that much and they damn sure dont sell well...and since I may come off as holier than thou,I shall impart my wisdom to you,my brothers,in the form of the 10 skinning commandments.  

1.Thou shalt not emulate Microsoft.They are always behind the skinning curve...Aero would have been cutting edge if it hadnt taken MS so long to get Vista released.It looks like it was designed by 3 different people.Its not that good and dosnt even match itself.  

2.If thee must emulate Aero,make your own graphics,do it better and do it DIFFERENT.Stardock adheres closely to Aero for good reason...they are trying to interest OEM's in OS skinning.(plus they do Aero better and they produce their own graphics)The rest of you are not under this imitation limitation.  

3.Thou shalt not 'borrow' images from other skinners without their permission.(I include Microsoft in this as well)I understand the temptation...been there myself...dont do it.Buttons are not that hard to make.  

4.Thou shalt attempt to skin to completion.Dont be LAZY...everytime I cut corners on something I eventually regret it.  

5.Thou shalt not name your skin Aero-anything if its for XP just to get downloads.Its bad enough when its actually for Vista.(I did this as a joke with Knot Vista...it will soon be Knot Aero but it will finally have a Veeesta substyle)    

6.Thou shalt examine thy skin before uploading.Zoom in on stuff,check alignments,dont always be satisfied with the first attempt at any section just because that means you can move on.(some of us recut images many,MANY times...its pretty rare to nail something the first time without going back and altering or even completely trashing an image)  

7.Thou shalt not unnecesarily update thy crappy skin.Once is usually enough after everyone has pointed out the bugs to you...and if you just took your time,you might not even need to do that.  

8.Thou shalt not upload numerous crappy versions of an already crappy skin.Pack that crap.Or better yet,dont make them unless you get specific request.(I made this mistake with the Rogue WB's and they were crap...had to go back and significantly alter all 3 recolors and its still a somewhat cheesey thing to do)  

9.Thou shalt not whine if someone dosnt like your 'masterpiece'.You can argue,fight back,and disagree...but at least take a look at your work from a different perspective.Sometimes they have a point.  

10.Thou shalt not exalt any other skinners before the holy trinity...father son and the holy spook.(I.R.Brainiac,Michael Benedict,Captain Blammo).Ok,that one is just to see if your paying attention.    

So say we all, Master IR!! Excellent list. Now if only people would actually adhere to it...

11. don't delete an update of a crappy skin you submitted and didn't check the "update date" box and resubmit it as a new skin just it will be listed first in the library.

Very true Dan, but what is happening here is a bit more than just comments.
Some people are a bit bearing for just getting a post and not really trying to skin.
We all see skins that are a work of trying to do better with what they have learned.
But there are others who do not care to learn much.
It is too bad some people only care about what others say or do. The truth is with if they where to care about the image they create of themselves.
Ones past always comes back to haunt some. With that said, it would seem some try to look at that and make a change for the future. If there is one? [for the skinner that is]

Comments can be hard, but skinning can be too. A lot of stuff is better off being left out and not said. Some do not and will not listen unless it is hard.
We are not trying to run anyone off. Just trying to help them understand better.

With that said; we all hope for the better and look to the future.
Don't get me wrong Dan!

Fuzzy Logic and I.R... well said.

When I started skinning, people frowned upon unoriginal concepts. If you made something similiar to someone elses work, you were called out by someone. Yes, it got piddly in some cases but at least the checks and balances worked. I remember someone making a stink because a skinner used a highlight technique that another skinner used. A little extreme on the pickiness but in actuality, that highlight was intellectual property. A lawyer could make a case of it.

After the libraries started to really fill up, coming up with an original concept was one of the tougher things to do. The more you skin, the harder it is to be fresh. I think alot of beginners (certainly myself included) get skinners block and force skins just to get something done. Here's a tip... If you have to put the color of your skin as part of the name (blue wall, red and white, black Vista, etc) you lost my interest already. Guess what? I can see that it is blue or black. You puting the color in the name tells me you never had any vision for the work from the getgo and there probably isn't any emotion behind it. There are obvious exceptions, but I think you all get my point.

Obviously XP users like their Vista skins or there wouldn't be 1000 of them out there. I don't hold that against them. Am I going to make a Vista skin and sell it just because it is the most popular thing? Not me and most likely, no other Master will because we skin because we have a passion for skinning. Eventually someones passion for money will overtake their passion for skinning and post such a skin but the Masters that I know would never do it. As I.R. said, Stardcok design has a different agenda than any of us so they cannot be included in any sensible discussion.

With the introduction of the Master Skin program, I feel it is more important than ever to protect each other's rights, including intellectual rights. This is not hard to do if everyone pays attention and speaks up regardless of the recoil they may suffer in return. We have download whores and they should be tarred and feathered. Skinning for downloads disrespects everything we all do. The sad thing is that the person skinning for downloads will eventually feel that energy come back to them in only negative ways. A year from now, your work will still be a rushed looking piece of something, your downloads will be 0, and most importantly, you will have less self esteem. You are not kidding any of us that pay attention. We have been around and know the tricks. If you update a screenshot and push a skin off the updated list, you should be shot, or at least neutered.

I am sure most of you have read what I said in a certain upload recently and thought it to be too harsh. I apologize if I offended anybody but noone is standing up calling for me to quit skinning. I was right and I have my first GUIO skin about half done.

I had to speak up and I had to do it publicly. That skin is a disgrace to everything skinning. Heck, in the beginning, even the beginniest of beginners would recolor default Luna images before releasing. How we got to accepting works with ALOT of default SKS template images untouched, I have no idea but it should not be acceptable.

I will be making a template skin for skinstudio that I hope to get Stardock to use instead of the diamond skin. Something such as this will prevent people from making similiar skins. Especially when all the default images are puke green or poo brown ( maybe a marbled mix of both P) ).

For the record, It took me about 2 1/2 hours to duplicate the skin I went postal on the other day. Thats right 2 1/2 hours. Guess what , mine was actually usable with 15 minutes additional work. If I were to upload it I would be a complete ass but according to currrent standards, it would be acceptable and anyone leaving negative feedback would be prone to flaming. It's just not right! The whole system is out of order becuase people look for ways to cheat the system in order to stand out. Where there is no talent, there is shennanigans.

My advice is simple and applys to everyone. (cause I am hungover and can't come close to saying it as eloquintly as Fuzzy).

YOUR WORK CAN BE BETTER!



ps. Kitty, I don't think I am alone when I say that you have been a huge addiiton to the originality factor in this thing we call Skinning. Just go with the flow, your flakiness adds to your talent.

Now a bleet from one of the "sheep" who has spent money to support this site.In the last month or so I have seen sniveling about:
Long Moderation Times
Low Star Ratings
"Unacceptable comments"
And now,THIS!
All of this is lowering the quality of WC as a whole much faster than 'crappy skins',imho.
Fuzzy Logic,that is a very inspiring reply,and shows that you have a genuine interest in bettering the site and skinning in general.This not the case with some of the comments I have read by others elsewhere.

With all due respect,as I do not wish to offend anyone but..
Just my opinion:Tearing someone down in the skin comments section is so very undignified,low class, and in poor taste.E-mail or a PM would be a more appropriate channel. Casual users will get the wrong idea about the type of folks you have here.Don't make yourselves into elitist snobs. You are all so much beyond all that.My two cents worth,now I'll get the flock out.