female skinners
Sunday, September 23, 2007 by Vampothika | Discussion: Community
I am just wondering, are there any master female skinners? and how long will it take before females are recognized as equals as males on this site, and get promoted almost as fast as the males........ As a female, i personally dont believe that we are. I feel that its very hard to be recognized as a serious skinner being female......
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warreni
Reply #42 Monday, September 24, 2007 9:54 AM
Reply #42 Monday, September 24, 2007 9:54 AM
Well, I'm honestly not sure that this is a problem per se, mainly because I don't know (and if anyone does know, jump in, but I'm inferring from Jafo's comments that no one does) what proportion of skinners that are active members of the site are female. I suspect that the ratio of male:female is pretty large. I'm not at all convinced that this is a reflection on the relative skinning talents of males and females; instead, it's probably just that not as many females are as interested in skinning (in general, it seems that not as many females are computer geeks).
That's the main reason I would disagree with Kitty's original post. My feeling, after hanging around for a few years, is that the site admins are as fair as they can be in light of the fact that it is a non-paying, part-time job.
Kitty, anybody who picks on you for having a mental illness is a complete asshole. Pardon my language, but I have no patience for penisheads of that caliber. Personally, as you know, I think you have a great deal of talent and given some more time, you will undoubtedly be promoted up the chain. I didn't comment on your last WB skin, Vampothika, but I have been using it at home for a week or so, and I think it is one of the most legible skins you've produced yet (which translates to "usable" for me). The text is super easy-to-read, and the skin strikes a great balance between your unique artistic vision and readable and usable elements. I certainly hope you stick around and try to make being part of this community work for you, because your contributions have been great up to this point, and I believe that you will achieve your objectives in time.
That's the main reason I would disagree with Kitty's original post. My feeling, after hanging around for a few years, is that the site admins are as fair as they can be in light of the fact that it is a non-paying, part-time job.
Kitty, anybody who picks on you for having a mental illness is a complete asshole. Pardon my language, but I have no patience for penisheads of that caliber. Personally, as you know, I think you have a great deal of talent and given some more time, you will undoubtedly be promoted up the chain. I didn't comment on your last WB skin, Vampothika, but I have been using it at home for a week or so, and I think it is one of the most legible skins you've produced yet (which translates to "usable" for me). The text is super easy-to-read, and the skin strikes a great balance between your unique artistic vision and readable and usable elements. I certainly hope you stick around and try to make being part of this community work for you, because your contributions have been great up to this point, and I believe that you will achieve your objectives in time.
Lantec
Reply #43 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:33 AM
Reply #43 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:33 AM
Used to be the "promotional" thread only popped up every couple of months.
Since the Masters started seeing a financial gain, the threads have been becoming commonplace.
I agree with Fairry~ (#7) However, I don't think there's any discrimination involved against women or anyone else. Promotions seem to come when someone "notices" that they are due. In a site with thousands of visitors and hundreds of regulars that can take a while. In some cases the "squeaky hinge" approach has appeared to work.
IMO the Masters should be LONG time contributors and those willing to take time out to help other skinners who ask for it. Their body of work should be varied and not just Windowblinds or just Wallpapers etc. Nor should their work look like a constant re-hash of the same skin in dozens of flavors.
Since the Masters started seeing a financial gain, the threads have been becoming commonplace.
I agree with Fairry~ (#7) However, I don't think there's any discrimination involved against women or anyone else. Promotions seem to come when someone "notices" that they are due. In a site with thousands of visitors and hundreds of regulars that can take a while. In some cases the "squeaky hinge" approach has appeared to work.
IMO the Masters should be LONG time contributors and those willing to take time out to help other skinners who ask for it. Their body of work should be varied and not just Windowblinds or just Wallpapers etc. Nor should their work look like a constant re-hash of the same skin in dozens of flavors.
starkers
Reply #44 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:37 AM
Reply #44 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:37 AM
Yo, Kitty, your work speaks for itself and eventually you WILL be promoted on its merits. I have no doubt whatsoever on this....mightn't happen right away, but it WILL happen cos you got the talent & right smarts for skinning.
Oh, and there's no disadvantage to being female around here....some of WC's most/best respected skinners happen to be women who have been embraced by the skinning community as a whole.
Oh, and there's no disadvantage to being female around here....some of WC's most/best respected skinners happen to be women who have been embraced by the skinning community as a whole.
Zoomba
Reply #45 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:41 AM
Reply #45 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:41 AM
As the overall site administrator, I can say with absolute certainty that when user promotions are discussed, they are based on the body of work a skinner has contributed, and gender has absolutely nothing to do with it.
When it comes to Master skinners, we have very few period compared to the overall number of active users at this site. And if you look at who is a Master, they're folks who have been a part of the community here at WinCustomize for a very long period of time, and their work is often professional quality. And that's not just the opinion of myself or one other moderator, that's the consensus of more or less every moderator and administrator on WinCustomize.
We have women scattered among all the other ranks (apprentice up through journeyman) and even have a selection of women among the moderation team at various points in the site's history.
Also, we do not now, nor will we ever penalize people for expressing their opinions or asking questions about how the site is run (there is a difference though between expressing opinions and trolling. Don't worry Kitty, you're fine!).
SKoriginals
Reply #46 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:53 AM
Reply #46 Monday, September 24, 2007 11:53 AM
I agree to an extent that there is a lack of female 'higher ups' in the promotion of skinners, but there is an overall lack of female skinners too. Many skinners get overlooked for promotion when they probably should be. I hung around as a journeyman for what seemed like an eternity.
Being promoted on WC has to do with many things and not just skinning ability. Its also the overall contribution to the skinning community. I personally think you should be promoted beyond Apprentice by now but, not sure about Master (none of which is actually up to me either way).
I'm sure in due time you will be promoted, making 'Master' takes time for everyone and I don't think (nor would I hope) that you being female has anything to do with it. There have been post like this in the past (all by males I believe) saying the same sort of thing. Be patient is all. Expressing the fact that you would like to be promoted to the proper people and in a less public 'forum' might have been a better choice and a viable option for getting a possible promotion
Being promoted on WC has to do with many things and not just skinning ability. Its also the overall contribution to the skinning community. I personally think you should be promoted beyond Apprentice by now but, not sure about Master (none of which is actually up to me either way).
I'm sure in due time you will be promoted, making 'Master' takes time for everyone and I don't think (nor would I hope) that you being female has anything to do with it. There have been post like this in the past (all by males I believe) saying the same sort of thing. Be patient is all. Expressing the fact that you would like to be promoted to the proper people and in a less public 'forum' might have been a better choice and a viable option for getting a possible promotion
vStyler
Reply #47 Monday, September 24, 2007 12:08 PM
Reply #47 Monday, September 24, 2007 12:08 PM
Work your ass off, ( day and night ) help out when possible, improve with each theme submitted, be original with attention to detail and useability and hang in there, be a good person and ur own worst critic.
Good things alays come to good people.
Good things alays come to good people.
Shenaynay
Reply #48 Monday, September 24, 2007 6:02 PM
Reply #48 Monday, September 24, 2007 6:02 PM
Kitty, I certainly hope you stay here! I've always admired your spunk and your talent! You're an awesome skinner! You seem to me as being a fun and caring person with a free spirit. Awesome qualities, and they're reflected in your work! You are a respected and loved member of this community! I've seen it from time to time in comments and even here in this forum. Sure there may be a disagreement going on, but I can still sense it. Your personality and style would be sorely missed!
jamespaulp
Reply #49 Monday, September 24, 2007 8:08 PM
Reply #49 Monday, September 24, 2007 8:08 PM
I think the problem might have started with financial gains for Masters.
Is it possible at all to not to show the geneder? You wouldn't show the race and religion.
I have a question though.
How many of you felt being descriminated because of their race, religion or country of origin? The last one being more visible than others, many can claim they are being descriminated.
Please don't alienate the best and brightest skinners of WC (I am not one of them) by playing in to the hands of loud whiners.
Whiners may be good artists, but they are still whiners sometimes sawing seeds of destruction.
Is it possible at all to not to show the geneder? You wouldn't show the race and religion.
I have a question though.
How many of you felt being descriminated because of their race, religion or country of origin? The last one being more visible than others, many can claim they are being descriminated.
Please don't alienate the best and brightest skinners of WC (I am not one of them) by playing in to the hands of loud whiners.
Whiners may be good artists, but they are still whiners sometimes sawing seeds of destruction.
Jafo
Reply #50 Monday, September 24, 2007 8:26 PM
Reply #50 Monday, September 24, 2007 8:26 PM
How many of you felt being descriminated because of their race, religion or country of origin?
I can be quite emphatic there is none, not from either the Stardock OR Wincustomize facets of site administration.
Were anyone to be found to be discriminatory their position would be terminated. In some things, not just with warez promotion, spam, etc, there's zero tolerance.
jamespaulp
Reply #51 Monday, September 24, 2007 9:15 PM
I was being sarcastic. I have not seen any descrimintaion anywhere on this site, that's just my opinion. I usually ignore whining, but when I see baseless accusations (baseless strictly from my point of view because I don't see everything), I have to voice my concern. Sometimes being silent is equal to approving the accusations.
Correction: sowing seeds, not sawing
Reply #51 Monday, September 24, 2007 9:15 PM
I can be quite emphatic there is none, not from either the Stardock OR Wincustomize facets of site administration.
I was being sarcastic. I have not seen any descrimintaion anywhere on this site, that's just my opinion. I usually ignore whining, but when I see baseless accusations (baseless strictly from my point of view because I don't see everything), I have to voice my concern. Sometimes being silent is equal to approving the accusations.
Correction: sowing seeds, not sawing
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #52 Monday, September 24, 2007 10:54 PM
Reply #52 Monday, September 24, 2007 10:54 PM
Thinking that master skinners are getting rich on skinning just by being promoted at Winc is wrong.A 1 day a week job part time would bring you more money.(at least in the beginning)
You would still have to work at it for years more after promotion before it would be considered a fulltime income.
As for taking years to become a master here...thats as it should be...took me more than 4 years and it came exactly at the point where my I thought my skills warranted it.One skin sooner and I would have felt guilty.
You were already being watched for a promotion because of recommendations from other skinners that liked your work and thought you deservrd to be a master apprentice.But now you have stuck them in a cant win for losing situation.If they promote you now it looks like they are giving in to complaints and politics...not promoting you would seem to prove your(unfounded)point.
If anything being a woman would get you promoted faster,especially one that dosnt even skin in a feminine fashion.
You would still have to work at it for years more after promotion before it would be considered a fulltime income.
As for taking years to become a master here...thats as it should be...took me more than 4 years and it came exactly at the point where my I thought my skills warranted it.One skin sooner and I would have felt guilty.
You were already being watched for a promotion because of recommendations from other skinners that liked your work and thought you deservrd to be a master apprentice.But now you have stuck them in a cant win for losing situation.If they promote you now it looks like they are giving in to complaints and politics...not promoting you would seem to prove your(unfounded)point.
If anything being a woman would get you promoted faster,especially one that dosnt even skin in a feminine fashion.
vStyler
Reply #53 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:00 AM
Hopefully just the employee leaving that position and it's void being filled by another would suffice.
No need to persecute the position itself
Sorry Jafo... couldn't help myself.
Reply #53 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:00 AM
their position would be terminated.
Hopefully just the employee leaving that position and it's void being filled by another would suffice.
No need to persecute the position itself
Sorry Jafo... couldn't help myself.
scorpNZ
Reply #54 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:47 AM
Reply #54 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:47 AM
If you wanted to know when you could start charging for your work why did you waste time making a bullshit topic about discrimination,though i have to admit it was a sneaky way of getting attention,in essence all that was needed was an email to wincustomize to ask them how far you were off before a promotion was due surely they must have some sort of criteria one must meet before anything is handed out
jazzymjr
Reply #55 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:52 AM
I have kept quiet up to this point, but the above statement really bothers me. It sorta feeds right into the notion that female skinners who skin like a female cannot possibly be good skinners. I have real big issues with that! I am a female and am proud of being one...and like feminine things. I have always known that the skinning community is male-dominated, and statements like the one above only serves to prove my point. It's like, if you are female, just don''t skin like one...make skins that appeal to men only if you want to get promoted! That's a bunch of BS! Then people wonder why there are not more female skinners around...it possibly could be because of the thinking in the above statement.
I have been around for a few years, and will not be run off. I will continue to make female skins, because that is what I like...and if I do not get any more promotions, so be it. I got into skinning in the first place, because I didn't like all of the "heavy" blinds.
All I ask, is for some recognition that a female skinner who skins like a female has something to offer.
I bet if some of the men were told to make skins that appealed to women only that they would be irate. So, do not tell us females to make skins that appeal to men only!
If I offended some of you men, I am sorry about that. I just felt that I needed to express my feelings on this.
Reply #55 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:52 AM
If anything being a woman would get you promoted faster,especially one that dosnt even skin in a feminine fashion.
I have kept quiet up to this point, but the above statement really bothers me. It sorta feeds right into the notion that female skinners who skin like a female cannot possibly be good skinners. I have real big issues with that! I am a female and am proud of being one...and like feminine things. I have always known that the skinning community is male-dominated, and statements like the one above only serves to prove my point. It's like, if you are female, just don''t skin like one...make skins that appeal to men only if you want to get promoted! That's a bunch of BS! Then people wonder why there are not more female skinners around...it possibly could be because of the thinking in the above statement.
I have been around for a few years, and will not be run off. I will continue to make female skins, because that is what I like...and if I do not get any more promotions, so be it. I got into skinning in the first place, because I didn't like all of the "heavy" blinds.
All I ask, is for some recognition that a female skinner who skins like a female has something to offer.
I bet if some of the men were told to make skins that appealed to women only that they would be irate. So, do not tell us females to make skins that appeal to men only!
If I offended some of you men, I am sorry about that. I just felt that I needed to express my feelings on this.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #56 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:55 AM
Reply #56 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:55 AM
You completely misunderstood my point...thats why it was prefaced with 'If anything'...meaning,if it were true that gender influenced promotion,being female would be an advantage.The site needs more female skinners.(the site would go out of their way to encourage lady skinners)
If a feminine skinning style was a detriment to promotion,she's exempt from that too.
So please dont jump to conclusions on my 'thinking'.
If a feminine skinning style was a detriment to promotion,she's exempt from that too.
So please dont jump to conclusions on my 'thinking'.
Fairyy~
Reply #57 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:57 AM
Unfortunately the female population at WC has taken a severe downward spiral in the past year or so. I too use to only make ' girly' items. I liked making stuff that was just for women and I knew right from the start that it would only get about 100 downloads. You have a lot of members that like what you do Jazzy so just keep doing it.
Making skins that are not your style just isn't much fun at all.
Maybe you should clarify that statement because you make it sound like being a woman would make you get promotions faster and that isn't the case at all. I have been here 4 years. I felt my promotions were handed out because I have tried to be an active member here daily - not just a once a week member that comes to see what there is to download - grab a few skins and see ya next week/month kinda member. I take the time to look at others skins and I always comment as much as possible. My skinner ability is limited - I have no aspirations to be anything more than the
" Master " Of My Own Destiny.
Master Skinner status should take years to achieve and for someone to even hint they should be promoted to that status quicker than the usual 'climbing up the ranks' and earning it is going to cause problems. I think people are losing sight of just what
a " Master " is supposed to be. Its a high position given to a select few that have earned it by contributing free skins and help and active membership for years.
Perhaps the only problem here at WC is they might need to promote more ' female ' type content to bring back the women that once came to this site daily or to attract new female membership.
We are a minority and we know it, but it has nothing to do with wincustomize treating us differently. I have had isolated incidences that I felt I was penalized by a few for being female - but that is to be expected when dealing with a site this big full of men. But once again - the male administrators and moderators do not treat us differently.
Reply #57 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:57 AM
I have always known that the skinning community is male-dominated, and statements like the one above only serves to prove my point. It's like, if you are female, just don''t skin like one...make skins that appeal to men only if you want to get promoted! That's a bunch of BS! Then people wonder why there are not more female skinners around...it possibly could be because of the thinking in the above statement.
Unfortunately the female population at WC has taken a severe downward spiral in the past year or so. I too use to only make ' girly' items. I liked making stuff that was just for women and I knew right from the start that it would only get about 100 downloads. You have a lot of members that like what you do Jazzy so just keep doing it.
Making skins that are not your style just isn't much fun at all.
If anything being a woman would get you promoted faster,especially one that dosnt even skin in a feminine fashion.
Maybe you should clarify that statement because you make it sound like being a woman would make you get promotions faster and that isn't the case at all. I have been here 4 years. I felt my promotions were handed out because I have tried to be an active member here daily - not just a once a week member that comes to see what there is to download - grab a few skins and see ya next week/month kinda member. I take the time to look at others skins and I always comment as much as possible. My skinner ability is limited - I have no aspirations to be anything more than the
" Master " Of My Own Destiny.
Master Skinner status should take years to achieve and for someone to even hint they should be promoted to that status quicker than the usual 'climbing up the ranks' and earning it is going to cause problems. I think people are losing sight of just what
a " Master " is supposed to be. Its a high position given to a select few that have earned it by contributing free skins and help and active membership for years.
Perhaps the only problem here at WC is they might need to promote more ' female ' type content to bring back the women that once came to this site daily or to attract new female membership.
We are a minority and we know it, but it has nothing to do with wincustomize treating us differently. I have had isolated incidences that I felt I was penalized by a few for being female - but that is to be expected when dealing with a site this big full of men. But once again - the male administrators and moderators do not treat us differently.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #58 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:58 AM
Reply #58 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:58 AM
nevermind, I was slower than Fairyy~
Fairyy~
Reply #59 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:02 AM
Our posts crossed paths as posts so often do and post out of order - so you have clarified your statement - I had a feeling you didn't mean it the way it sounded.
Reply #59 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:02 AM
You completely misunderstood my point...thats why it was prefaced with 'If anything'...meaning,if it were true that gender influenced promotion,being female would be an advantage.The site needs more female skinners.(the site would go out of their way to encourage lady skinners)
If a feminine skinning style was a detriment to promotion,she's exempt from that too.
So please dont jump to conclusions on my 'thinking'.
If a feminine skinning style was a detriment to promotion,she's exempt from that too.
So please dont jump to conclusions on my 'thinking'.
Our posts crossed paths as posts so often do and post out of order - so you have clarified your statement - I had a feeling you didn't mean it the way it sounded.
Fairyy~
Reply #60 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:03 AM
Dont ya just hate that NT ...
Reply #60 Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:03 AM
nevermind, I was slower than Fairyy~
Dont ya just hate that NT ...
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Reply #41 Monday, September 24, 2007 9:44 AM