How Stardock failed the skinning community in 2006
A look back at what we didn't do and what we need to do
Friday, December 22, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
WinCustomize.com is a website owned by Stardock. It was founded back in 2001 when the dot-com collapse took out most of the skin sites. Stardock wanted to ensure that there was a stable home for people who wanted to create cool stuff to enhanced their Windows experience.
While 2006 was Stardock's best year from a traditional success point of view (doubled in size, more than doubled in revenue, helped produce stuff for Microsoft on Windows Vista, building partnerships with OEMs, and the game's division made one of the top PC games of last year), I believe Stardock failed the skinning community. It failed it utterly.
This is going to be long but I will try to identify the areas where Stardock blew it and what I think it needs to "make good".
The Failures
- Awful documentation
- Lack of support for skinners
- Lack of community support
- Lack of leadership
Awful Documentation
As bad as the documentation for making cool stuff for Stardock's apps appears, it's actually far far worse. And if you think it's really really bad, trust me, it's even worse than that. It's not that we don't try. The problem is usually the only people who are good enough to make the documentation are the actual development teams who tend not to be very good at writing documentation. Ever looked at the actual text inside a WindowBlinds .UIS file?
Part of the problem stems from what Stardock really is as compared to "normal" companies. We're a bunch of software developers. Historically, almost pure coders. Until 2002, Stardock had one artist in the entire company and he was assigned to do our games. In 2003, we brought in a second artist (also to work on games). That's insane. But it didn't seem so. Not to us anyway.
We've always been a tech company. We created technology for the sake of creating technology. The fancy term for that these days are "thought leaders". That is, we think of stuff before other and try to crank it out. Those familiar with the misadventures of "TextBanners.net" may recall that we came up with text ads first. Yay. Neat technology but of course, Google owns that. We came up with full GUI skinning. First on OS/2 back in the early 90s and then on Windows. And we even had user-created mini applications created via JavaScript back in 2000 (DesktopX). But so what?
Without good documentation, tutorials, step by step guides, what is the point? With WindowBlinds, we got lucky. So compelling was that program that users were willing to figure out the arcane format. How arcane? This is from a WindowBlinds skin:
[Personality]
TextShiftNoIcon=-2
TextRightClipNoIcon=84
UsesTran=1
BUTTONCOUNT=26
TextAlignment=0
TextShift=-2
TextShiftVert=-3
TextRightClip=89
TextOnBottom=0
Menubar=YellowTab\YellowTabMainMenuBarImage.bmp
Top=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameTopUis2.bmp
Left=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameLeftUis2.bmp
Right=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameRightUis2.bmp
Bottom=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameBottomUis2.bmp
TopTopHeight=23
TopBotHeight=48
LeftTopHeight=37
LeftBotHeight=9
RightTopHeight=26
RightBotHeight=9
BottomTopHeight=2
BottomBotHeight=2
This isn't a joke. That's what the WindowBlinds "language" looks like underneath SkinStudio. My favorite is the BottomTopHeight line. But like I said, it was compelling enough that people were willing to reverse-engineer it to make cool stuff.
Our documentation elsewhere has been much more lacking. We put out documentation but it's pretty awful. Probably the best documentation we have is for DesktopX. And it's not anything I'd consider competitive in quality to Yahoo Widgets's 308 page developer manual. In fact, compare the DesktopX page to the Yahoo Widgets page.
The problem at Stardock is myopia. I'm not a politically correct type of guy as many of you know but I say without ego being involved that DesktopX is far far superior to Yahoo Widgets or any of the other platforms from a technological point of view. In capability (on Windows) is a complete superset and then some. As technologists, we simply assumed that was enough. Build a better mousetrap, etc. But people won't use the "Better" mousetrap if it requires a PhD. to manufacture.
Let me ask you this -- Where is a modern WindowBlinds tutorial? Let's say I want to create a WindowBlinds 5 skin. How do I do it? Where's the nice friendly example that walks me through it? Heck, the user guide that's on WindowBlinds.net is awful and the only reason it's not worse is that I went and edited what was originally put up there (complete with Times Roman font and MS Word artifacts).
In the beginning, when Stardock was smaller and the community smaller, much of these problems could be masked because me or one of the other developers at Stardock could personally answer questions on a forum. But as Stardock has grown and we've gotten a lot busier, these glaring holes in our documentation became critical. The WindowBlinds skinning guide that is on the page is from 2002. I kid you not. FOUR YEARS AGO! The only thing that saves WindowBlinds skinning remotely is that SkinStudio, while not an easy to use application, is pretty decent. But it's not enough and the learning curve has only gotten worse.
Lack of Support for Skinners
You'd think the terrible documentation situation would be enough to cover the lack of support for skinners. But no, it's worse than that. Even setting aside the documentation, lack of organized tutorials, lack of step-by-step guides, etc. there's the fact that Stardock should have someone who is dedicated to doing nothing else but helping people become skinners.
Think about it. Stardock benefits from people making skins and themes right? Shouldn't it have a dedicated [email protected] type email address? It doesn't. Why not? We should. Heck, we wouldn't even need a full-time person. Just someone to help point people to tutorials (that presumably would exist), answer questions, give advice, etc.
Instead, we leave people to the tender mercies of the forums (which I'll get to next).
Stardock doesn't even put out hardly any good example content any more (that it doesn't charge for!
) for people to learn from. Stardock released one ObjectBar theme into the ObjectBar 2 gallery. When was the last time Stardock released some new DesktopX gadgets, themes, etc? How about some new ObjectDock samples? ObjectDock 1.5 supports .dockzips. Do you see any in the gallery? I don't. We released nothing that uses it.
Lack of Community Support
Being good in the community was something we used to be great at. Sure, there were always the perpetual "free beer" people who objected to our existence (i.e. people who didn't like the idea of paying for software but themselves didn't write any software or make skins or anything) but overall, we were much more interactive.
Now, on the plus side, the # of "Frogboy is evil" posts we get in various places has declined. But I think, as a community, we were better off with some of that when Stardock people were more interactive. And, more importantly, setting an example.
The WinCustomize forums largely disgust me. Sorry but it needs to be said. WinCustomize's forums wreak of elitism and intolerance. Why are the forums not as busy as a site that gets millions of visitor should be? Because people come on, ask a question, make a mild criticism and then get creamed by old guard people who wish "newbies" would go away. One of the reasons why we really got behind WinCustomize.com in a big way after it was launched was because we were so pissed off at some of the elitism we saw elsewhere (I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about). But while many of us old guys have been busy coding new stuff, the forums have become an increasingly hostile place.
And when they're not hostile, they're sterile and impersonal. I'd as much hang out on the WC forums as I'd hang out on the forums for my TV manufacturer. Only because of the wondrous loyalty of many good-hearted folks are our forums even remotely capable of being rehabilitated.
Moreover, Stardock should have a community manager. Could even be the same guy who's helping skinners. Someone who's helping out on other sites. WinCustomize isn't the only skin site. What about SkinBase? They deserve more support from Stardock than they get. Or tons of newer customization community sites too that I'm not even hanging out on.
Again, in the old days, Stardock's lack of infrastructure was masked. I would get an email from someone ([email protected]) and quickly answer it. But now, I get thousands of email a day. Hundreds of which request a response. As a result, I don't even see much of the email I get. Realistically, I should ask someone to look through my email every day and flag anything that needs urgent attention.
Lack of leadership
We should be better at setting an example for how things should be done. Stardock people should be in the forums. Stardock people should be making skins and releasing them. Should be making tutorials. Should be writing documentation. Should be answering questions. Should be commenting on skins. Should be hosting IRC chats. Should be making video demos. And so on and so on. But we're not.
And so things tend to go to whomever is the loudest or has the deepest pockets. I mean do skinners really envision a gadget future in which they're mucking with DHTML and Javascript to create a fixed size gadget for the Windows Vista Sidebar? Does that sound cool? But what's the alternative? Making a PNG file that's tied up with some Javascript for a different multi-billion dollar company?
I've seen people on-line refer to us as "Those wizards at Stardock will think of something cool..." Which is a very high complement. But if we want to be the thought leaders then we better bloody get back to leading on stuff.
Because I don't know about you guys but if my "skinning" options are either making another glass skin for the OS, making a weather gadget/widget for whatever or sitting it out, then forget it.
What needs to be done
It's easy for me to sit here and rip Stardock a new one. It's my company after all. Talk is cheap. What is Stardock going to actually do about this? And by do I mean realistically. Because if you read through my litany of complaints, the "solution" seems obvious -- in a perfect world. But it's not a perfect world. We live in a world where I can't even hire a decent QA (Quality Assurance) person. We get people in for interviews who haven't even been to our webpage (first rule of thumb when interviewing for a job -- know something about the product or service that you are interested in being involved with).
Here are the things I think Stardock must do in 2007:
- Make is easier to create stuff for our software
- Organize support for skinners
- Get more involved in the community
- Lead by example
Make it easier...
Updating documentation is an obvious thing that needs to be done. But it needs to go beyond that. Stardock needs to develop visually easy to understand tutorials that walk a user through how to create something.
It also needs to update its software (particularly SkinStudio) in such a way to make it easier to create skins. More specifically, there should be beginner, intermediate, and advanced ways to create stuff both from a tools point of view and a tutorial/documentation point of view.
It should be consistent across the board. Everywhere on all Stardock's products there should be guides focused on beginners, intermediate, and advanced users.
Organize Support for Skinners
Stardock should create an off-shoot of the next WinCustomize.com (like skinners.wincustomize.com) that is dedicated purely to learning the art of skinning. Everything should show up there and it should be reasonably well organized.
Moreover, Stardock should have a person who is officially responsible for helping people get into this. Have a question on how to create an alpha blended title bar for WindowBlinds? Need help creating an animated wallpaper (well, not yet but soon...), How do I make a new boot screen for Windows Vista? How do I make a docklet for ObjectDock? And so on.
Part of this also comes in the form of trying to support other people's standards. For example, DesktopX 3.5 will export content to the Windows Sidebar. So people who don't think it particularly joyful to muck around with DHTML and Javascript can instead use a proven environment with updated documentation and tutorials to create new stuff.
But more to the point, someone at Stardock should always be on-hand to help out on this. It should be someone specific too. Not a "skinner support department" but literally someone who is part of the community that works at Stardock that you know and feel you can talk to individually.
Get more involved in the community
This is like the above example but it has more to do with non-skinners. Stardock needs to be more involved on a day to day basis in the community. That means hanging out on forums. I recognize that the days of me participating in some lengthy discussion on Neowin.net or deviantART or Customize.org are long gone. There's just not the time anymore. But someone needs to be doing it.
We're working on that already. IslandDog is working on this already and I imagine you'll be seeing him in a lot of other areas as we develop this new strategy.
But there's going to be some pain on WinCustomize 2007. We're going to bring down the hammer on elitism. Any user who comes across as a bully or "anti-newbie" won't be welcome. WinCustomize.com's forums should be thought of as a lounge to hang out with friends. The forums will be modified to support a more "community" like atmosphere.
People email me and I just don't see the emails -- literally. One user on a blog said that "Stardock's success has gone to Brad's head". My egomania aside, the reason I don't answer emails isn't that I don't care about folks anymore but rather a simple matter of logistics. Heck, I missed Microsoft's invitation to go to CES (luckily I found out via other channels). I just don't see the emails. Most of my time is spent doing other things. I'm actually better known in the game industry these days than in the skinning world.
But it is still the company's responsibility to replace my presence with someone else's. Otherwise, Stardock might as well just be yet another Internet business out there to squeeze money from people. People who know us know that we're in this because it's fun to do. But to a newcomer, if we don't behave any differently than any other "business" why should we expect to be seen as any different?
So we absolutely have to rectify that in a big way.
Lead by example
Picture this: The year is 2001. DesktopX objects are starting to become popular. WindowBlinds vs. msstyles have heated up. And the sky seems unlimited in terms of new cool stuff from not just Stardock but shareware and freeware people from around the world. Great eh?
But then the ghost of Christmas future shows up and tells you that by the end of 2006 that widgets have become various ways to skin clocks, weather readers and RSS feeds (there's nothing wrong with that but then a specialized app could/should have been made for those 3 things that is MUCH easier to create skins for and that skins could be shared). And Hoverdesk and Litestep were either dead or on life support and that the ObjectBar 2 gallery had one theme in it. Who would have believed it?
Without leadership, you have inertia.
I wrote recently how the most damaging thing to skinning has been the length of time it took Microsoft to do Windows Vista. This is true. That is, one can legitimately argue that the skinning community shouldn't expect Stardock to come up with all the new stuff. But on the other hand, if Stardock wants to be perceived as a "leader" in this growing trend, it needs to do stuff.
That means:
- Create state of the art content to give away to show what is possible.
- Show, in as many ways and places as possible, how that state of the art stuff was created
- Find new and cool things for people to do on their computers
- Create programs and tools (and make as many of them free as possible) to do those cool things.
- Present what you do with respect to others. Skinning should be fun. Skinning is fun.
- Interact with skinners and help them proactively.
To do these things, we are trying to build up the manpower to do this. It has been slow going though. The problems described in this article are things we've seen and been aware of. But solving them means bringing on talented people to help us. And that has been a real challenge. We want to hire people. But the # of people who can really do the job is amazingly small.
Conclusions
So there you have it. How Stardock failed the skinning community in 2006. I hope I do not have to write something similar next year. The pieces are starting to come together now. But we have a lot of work ahead of ourselves.
It mostly boils down to too much work for too few people. We've got projects going on with major PC OEMs, Microsoft, Take 2, and beyond which, for a company of around 50 people total is just immense. Especially when the ones who have traditionally "done" the stuff that made Stardock what it is today are now stretched between so many things. But that's our problem and it is something we have to resolve.
I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, criticism you have to offer. There's a LOT to look forward to next year. And this year has been a great year. But it was definitely not a shining beacon for Stardock's support of the skinning community. We'll do better.
Reply #102 Saturday, December 23, 2006 7:51 PM
Speaking again from the standpoint of a creator of standards and assembly manuals, a product should not go to retail status until a completed user's manual accompanies it.
I understand that this is hard to accomplish with a software product that is released in many beta versions previous to final release, but this is - IMO - a large part of a perceived lack of official support.
I would divide the documentation into two groups:
Group #1 = a user based manual (or extensive 'help' file) that addresses all parts of the program and how to use those parts. This would accompany the final releases at the time of release, with caveats for the various beta versions indicating a lack of support with references to the community forums as possible sources of 'unofficial' support.
Group #2 = a tutorial based series of documents to offer some support for user's who need help as they become more interested in creating content for personal development and/or uploads for the community. This could be offered in a downloadable/printable file format, a web page based format, or both.
Make those two items happen, combined with a strong company site 'FAQ' section, and I think your documentation issues are behind you, Brad.
Reply #103 Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:32 PM
It bugs me though as I'm not a newbie to computing as I actually teach it and my speciality is programming, I should be skinning I should be getting involved
but I have to admit without some sort of decent documentation to help me along the way I won't even try. I don’t want to be asking all of the time I want to be able to do it myself and then only ask if I really get stuck.I have to say though I preach the development of documentation to my students constantly when they create VB.Net programs or program in C++ but however many times I ask them to document all their steps, design before they program, log all their test data, create really helpful user guides for novices, DO THEY??? No they don’t and getting their final degree rests on getting their grades and they still won’t listen, they wade into programming without a thought and end up doing the documents as an afterthought so they can get a final grade, which is often poor.
So my lesson for today is don’t beat yourself up about it,
yep you don’t have all the documentation, tutorials and user guides you would wish, tell me something I don’t know, I’ve never met many programmers either in Education or Commercially who are any different than you guys.
At least you have recognised your short comings and all you need to do now is make sure you act upon them. 
Have a nice Christmas and a big HUG
to you FrogBoy, I’m looking forward to developments in the New Year.Reply #104 Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:12 PM
Documentation and instruction manuals are wonderful tools to have although you can provide the most detailed, comprehensive documentation known to man and if one lacks the desire to learn or doesn't want to put forth the effort to create they won't...regardless. As vStyler correctly pointed out, if you want to learn, you will...if you don't, you won't.
Reply #105 Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:00 PM
By your own admission you're a coder at heart, though judging by your success, you're also a competent businessman. It may be time to make some tough decisions as to where your time is best spent. Especially when you can't get through your own email. (Time to share that email database with someone who can help with the ones that don't require your immediate attention.)
As much as I may disagree with TSF's tone, he does make some valid points.
Bob Parsons WWW Link of GoDaddy writes his blogs and newsletters, but you don't see him jumping into flame-wars all over the 'net when someone says something negative about his company.
I personally think the Skinning-Wiki idea is great. I first purchased OD a little over three years ago. I tried making a few skins and icons (they sucked) but as you already know, the documentation has become more sparse as the software has become more complex.
Have you ever considered contracting someone to write a manual, or set of manuals?
Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver are all incredibly complex applications, but take a look on Amazon and you'll find thousands of books for them.
There is a "For Dummies" book for practically every subject under the sun, but you will not find one book documenting Stardock software.
You produce some of the best software out there, yet you have possibly the sparsest documentation. Get a book published, and I'll buy it. I bet plenty of others here would as well. It doesn't have to be on the "For Dummies" level (I personally don't like the level they dumb things down to, but they sure sell a lot of books.)
You could also consider using the podcasts to record some tutorials, or answer common questions about using Skinstudio, or IconDeveloper.
OK, someone can use the soapbox now.
Reply #106 Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:51 PM
I don't know if that's one of the issues on the wishlist, or if it even should be, but just thought I'd throw it out there for the heck of it...blah, blah, blah!
Reply #107 Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:06 PM
i second that
Reply #108 Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:16 AM
~
I have read to the "alpha blended title bar" so far.
So that is a title bar
(the thing at the top of the window you are working in that has the window title in it.)
that has been placed in a blender and after blending for a while
the title bar now has holes in it?
~
Reply #109 Sunday, December 24, 2006 1:31 AM
1) Better documentation would be a great idea; especially one manual for users of the various programs and another one that covers all of the details of making your own skins. I've tweaked a few things for my own personal use, but several times just put improvements aside because I got tired of hunting through the various docs. If you supply better documentation you'll increase the number of people contributing and you will get more and better skins and more interesting gadgets (which seem totally stuck in neutral). Case in point, I've been a professional programmer for over twenty years and have never submitted anything to this site, mainly because of this.
2) A snappy site would be great. Drop graphics, drop JavaScript, drop dynamic pages, make downloads slower, do whatever you have to do so that the page has some responsiveness.
3) Another thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned, but that caused me to not renew my Stardock subscription this year after three years is the abysmal technical support. I'd have a (relatively) simple problem (that was not covered in the forums or via Google or docs) and submit a request. After a week I'd submit again. And again after another week. Etc., etc., etc. Oddly enough the personal emails from marketing (or renewal notices) always showed up on time, but never received anything within weeks when there was a problem. And this happened each of the three times that I required assistance. Excuses were made ("we lost it", "the person handling your problem quit", etc. etc. etc.) Even tiny companies need to put a premium on keeping their paying customers happy; Stardock certainly does a terribly job.
-b
Reply #110 Sunday, December 24, 2006 1:48 AM
Awesome read..
Have a great holiday everyone!!
Me.
Reply #113 Sunday, December 24, 2006 3:52 AM
So taking the rejection in stride I went ahead and completely redesigned the skin, uploaded it, and it was accepted. I'd be a friggin if i said I wasnt completely thrilled. I thought to myself, "Finally I get to show my work off and maybe if I'm lucky it may be good enough to catch Treetog's attention."
Well yes it had, but unfortunately the mighty treetog was not only unimpressed but he actually accused me of ripping his CDII Skin. Not directly mind you, but by the slight of an icon. Then another person commented, "hmmm this looks strangely like CDII" and once again your lovely mr treetog responded with "yes it does."
From that point on it was just getting worse and worse as far as comments. Many tried to defend me, but most thought it would be cool to jump on the ol' treetog and friends bandwagon. I busted my ass for 3 weeks on that skin and did everything as originally as I possibly could. It was my second skin ever, it had animations, and a visual style I tried desperately to make appealing. Since then, that skin has been found in japan, and all over the world.
I am being as harsh as possible to illustrate just how much it hurt for me to basically be kicked in the face by someone I idolized.
I used to worship treetog, and tho he did not outright say i stole his work, he not only implied it, but didn't bother to stp the assault i was receiving.
Enter Jafo, Those of you whom know Jafo know he can be a tad on the smarmy side, and has been known himself to be an elitist. This time however I will give him the credit he so richly deserves. He may be an asshole to some, and even to me on a rare occasion he has been less than cordial, BUT, not only did he quell the entire thing, he even went to my personal deviantart page and told me so. He then proceded to tell everyone on my atomic lizard comment page that he personally reviewed both skins side by side and deemed them to be completely different.
So yea he may be a caustic jackass at times but he wasn't to me and I thank him for being a gentleman about it despite my tyrade to him.
Now some of you will no doubt read this and consider it nothing more than a drawn out snivel sheet, but I challenge you to go through what I did and not be completely disgusted and livid.
Do i think I'm being too harsh? you bet yer ass I do and I'm doing it for a reason.
I'm diong it once again to illustrate the importance of being a good commenter and or admin. As newbs we need people not affraid to show us ALL the ropes, that's why we're noobs. We may know how to design images but we may not know where they go or what they do. Detailed information is crucial to most beginners.
We need your positive comments even if you think the skin is horrible. Rather than saying "This skin is a piece of shit" Why not offer up some advice? I do. I go out of my way to make sure I afford all my knowledge to the ppl i deal with. Why? because THAT is what skinning is about. It's about sharing your craft, and making things beautiful in your own way and through others.
It's about colaborating as a single cohesive unit to make our programs the best way we can. If we don't share we might as well throw in the towel and shitcan stardock for good. This is what I think SD's goal was and I still see it, just through muddy waters. It's still there tho and we can clear it up and view it as it should be with just a little bit of effort. I am a member of Skinartistry and am to be their January Member of the month. Not because i'm this godlike skinner, but because at SA we are a FAMILY. We help each other and make that special difference in our members' lives.
And ya know what? I love my family, and they love me right back, and no one can ever take that away.
I thakn you for reading this, if you agree cool, let's make a difference. If you disagree, I give two shits about what you think. Have a good'n
[Edited the "excessive" language. - ID]
Reply #114 Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:15 AM
| As far as Brad being visible on his site...I personally think its a good thing, it gives the site more personality by seeing "The Boss" show an active interest in his consumer base rather than having a site without a face. |
I have to agree with this. Your being visible on the site, Brad, is important to all of us as it shows subscribers/members/potential customers that the CEO has a strong level of commitment, participation and interest in the community as a whole. All too often companies become faceless and impersonal as they become more successful, and when that happens, consumers can become disconnected, disenchanted and feel like it's all about profit, rather than them.
I know that I felt a greater confidence in purchasing Stardock products/becoming a WC subscriber knowing that the Big Chief himself was at the helm - that he IS connected in a personal way to the community/end user. Apart from seeing it as the better product, my switch from StyleXP to ObjectDesktop was influenced/made easier by your presence/involvement here on the WC forums - the fact that you're interested in the end users and skinners needs alike....
I've always been happy with my purchases, thus I have no complaints and am not in a position to criticise or advise on what needs improving. However, I do thank and commend you for including the end user/skinner base in your considerations for the future of Stardock and WC
....most companies would just implement change and the consumer would have to cop it sweet, like it or not.Reply #115 Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:42 AM
There is a big problem with forums of any kind. They are flat unresponsive pieces of text which give little or no idea to the reader of the true intent behind them, they are anonymous as anyone can have any forum name and it bears little resemblance to who they are. Anyone can post anything and there is no true come back except for being kicked of the forum which isn’t much of a punishment in most cases and it leaves the person who has been belittled and berated feeling like total utter crap.
Moderators and Admin are supposed to keep members in line and stop individuals being berated or belittled but its a hard job to do as they are always seen as the bad guys so sometimes they let things slide so they don’t get bashed again. It’s not like you can physically walk up to the individual and make your case, argue your point which is frustrating.
I’ve had someone rip me a new one on a forum but in this case I could put that person on Ignore, Ignore is your friend when you have a troll hounding you down on the forum
but you cant do that if they are making comments against some work that you have submitted, so you are open to all sorts of abuse if people wish.
I’m a member of three forums, one is a fan forum with over 10,000 members and I am a founding member, the forum has been flooded with many new members but we old folk have a board to go to which is invite only were we can mull over old times and experiences without upsetting anyone else, this works well, also I’m a moderator on that board and we have a moderators only zone so moderators can discuss rules, regulations and measures they should take with members amongst themselves, which means the moderators aren’t alone and don’t act without advise.
The second forum is for Tiny Portal and Simple Machines which is open source software that allows you to create forums. These forums are fantastic it’s a real community everyone helps everyone else. We have experienced PHP programmers mucking in with complete newbie programmers and giving them a hand. They have a great user guide section on creating themes for the forum and they have a Default theme so newbie theme creators have a starting point, permission has been freely given for newbies and oldbies alike to take the theme apart and change it, update it and do anything they want with it without having to worry about theme creators getting on their back for using it and it allows newbies to learn as they go along. Also its not a business, people do it because they love it and are so enthusiastic about it that it spills over into the rest of the community.

Its also a written rule if members wish to update or change another members theme that isn’t the default then they must always ask permission first and give credit were credit is due, this stops any copyright arguments and we even have cases of old masters helping newbies adjust and modify their own themes.
The final forum I’m a member of is my own student forum were I have to moderate a large group of 16 to 19 year olds with testosterone and oestrogen flying about all over the place and the occasional fisticuff on the board as well as in the classroom. I have to moderate hard, slap down on any offenders quickly and I don’t give an inch let alone a yard otherwise I kick em into touch without a second thought. Considering I have a large arcade of flash games on there, it’s a real punishment if they get banned so most students immediately moderate their behaviour.
All in all its never easy when someone critiques your work especially when that critique is bad, some skinners are always going to be better than others not everyone is a Michael Angelo, also you have a vast array of tastes so you will never satisfy all of the people all of the time. Maybe it should be a written rule that unless the comment is helpful or constructive in a positive way then you shouldn’t give a comment at all.

P.S on the note of giving some advise and as this is only the second time ive posted in the forum so it stands out to me like a sore thumb, you really need to work on the emoticon issue, emoticones are the only means you have on a forum to give some idea to a reader of your emotional intent within the text and the amount of emoticons available here is very small, maybe the forum should broaden its selection so that more graphical expression can be given within posts.

Reply #116 Sunday, December 24, 2006 6:51 AM
Stardock does have rather poor documentation, but you are not alone in this. This is an industry wide problem. It really is not all that uncommon for me to find myself more confused after reading an application’s documentation than before I started. It is sad how often I have found myself searching through .ini and/or .xml files in an attempt to make an application perform. Documentation giving no answers, and forums mainly abuse. I really do hope Stardock tries to do better on this score.
It was mentioned earlier that small steps might be better than trying ‘to do it all’. I agree, but if that track is how Stardock actually does proceed please don’t let it lead to a step here, a step there, until the whole project becomes a Longhorn like morass where seemingly nothing gets accomplished.
As for the forums, to admit the truth, I have not even bothered with them for at least 2 years now. The atmosphere is just too strained. I really don’t care how lacking in knowledge a “newbie” may be. The questions need to be answered. The poster might just be starting out completely new. It might even be his or her first computer. A lack of awareness on how an application works might just be the reason some questions sound so “dumb”. This is not always laziness. Good grief, I’ve been breaking and making computers and software since the mid 70’s and I still sometimes don’t know how to term an effective search.
Stardock builds some great applications that really can make Windows fun. One of the main reasons this thing works is the user participation. There are always going to be people like me who use more than they contribute. But if Stardock leaves their contributing users too far behind and for too long those ‘roots’ may dry up.
Without proper attention, the remarkable growth your company has seen over the last year or so might become the rope that Stardock finds itself hanging from. If you address those needs in an effective and realistic manner it might be surprising how many of us “lapsed” members return.
Good Luck and thank you.
Ben
Reply #117 Sunday, December 24, 2006 7:31 AM
wow...... good reading. And Brad if you ever consider my work any good I'll love to joint your design team...

Reply #118 Sunday, December 24, 2006 11:20 AM
Citizen Larry Tomczek that was a bit deep for a non-skinner. Thanks skinhit
you hit the nail on the button. Now comes the hard part, making the adjustments. I'll wait to see if any changes come about from this before I say anything. Knowing the problems is one thing fixxing them is another. I'll still offer any assistance (if I can) to anybody who asks. I've been a member for some time and I will remain one in the future (barring any really stupid stuff happening). Question How do I work the quote part in this? 
Reply #119 Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:01 PM
| Question How do I work the quote part in this? |
hold mouse button down and drag over/highlight that you wish to quote, then press the quote button.
if all you get is the quote tags, then drag over copy and paste in between the tags
or put - "quote" in front and - "/quote" behind that which you copy/paste (replacing the the quotation marks with the square brackets = "[" & "]")
Reply #120 Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:23 PM

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Reply #101 Saturday, December 23, 2006 7:16 PM
Its the same with any endeavour.. if you expect someone to hold your hand, maybe its not for you.
My advice to would-be skinners is to buckle down.. grab some coffee.. and KNOW ahead of time that its a laborious task ahead of you.
I consider myself a fairly accomplished skinner and I still spend MANY MANY hours figuring out ways to do new and innovative things from within the format that NO tutorial is going to teach. One last thing Brad mentioned that always rings true to me is... skinning IS fun
Key is.. its on YOU If you want to learn.. you will... I did..and without reading a single tutorial.