In memory of September 11th
A tribute
Sunday, September 10, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Five years ago on September 11, 2001, 19 men boarded four planes in the United States with the intention of hijacking them and crashing them into important buildings with the hope of killing as many people as possible.
Three of those planes made it to their targets killing over 3,000 people. The fourth one crashed after passengers attempted to retake the plane after learning the fate of the other three planes.
For Americans, September 11th marked a major turning point for how the country viewed the world. For people outside the United States, the choices and response to September 11th has stirred a great deal of debate. Even within the United States, there is a great deal of disagreement over how best to continue to carry out the response to the terrorist attacks and the growing movement of violent Islamic radicalism.
The people who attacked the United States were part of a terrorist organization called Al Qaeda. A radical Islamic group dedicated to restoring the historic caliphate that once existed from Spain to the far east, Al Qaeda considered the United States as an obstacle to their goals of turning "moderate" Muslim states such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt into fundamentalist Islamic Republics modeled after then Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. Their belief was that if the US presence in the middle east as well as its support of countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel could be removed that they moved one step closer to their goal. They believed, wrongly, that the US response would be to withdraw its presence from the middle east just as it had done so in Somalia in the mid 1990s.
On this day, we at this site give our thoughts to the families of the men and women who died on that day. And we support the valiant men and women in the armed forces from the United States and other countries who are working to put an end to organizations and movements that support the indiscriminate wholesale annihilation of innocents.
We hope the world does not forget 9/11. We certainly will not.
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Lantec
Reply #62 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:16 PM
Couldn't agree more....hopefully one day the other half will start functioning for you.....
Reply #62 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:16 PM
| Anyone with half a brain knows 911 was an inside job. |
Couldn't agree more....hopefully one day the other half will start functioning for you.....
Island Dog
Reply #63 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:24 PM
Reply #63 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:24 PM
I am simply amazed at the things people believe.
Jafo
Reply #64 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:35 PM
Reply #64 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:35 PM
Had this been my thread and not Frogboy's I would have removed any and all such comments by the naive and socially inept who have shown exactly zero compassion and/or respect for the lives lost on 9/11.
You people should be ashamed. Not only do you clearly display your ignorance, you clearly show your contempt for your fellow man during the time/remembrance of his loss/grief.
If the excuse is simply youth/immaturity I'd strongly suggest growing up fast, as you unfairly degrade your contemporaries by association.
Lantec
Reply #65 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:41 PM
Reply #65 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:41 PM
For my part in this I apologize. I let it get off topic because I don't suffer fools well.
whitewolf07
Reply #66 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:45 PM
Reply #66 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:45 PM
The tragedy here is that the souls of those who lost their lives will not rest and cry out to us to question the events and investigate what really happened. You can believe the Main Stream Media reports all you like but the fact is that more and more people are waking up and questioning what really happened on that fateful day.
BushCo knows this though and wants to show us again their version of the way things happnened. Too bad that the truth will eventually come out and stun a great many people id wager.
BushCo knows this though and wants to show us again their version of the way things happnened. Too bad that the truth will eventually come out and stun a great many people id wager.
Island Dog
Reply #67 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:48 PM
Reply #67 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:48 PM
| You can believe the Main Stream Media reports all you like but the fact is that more and more people are waking up and questioning what really happened on that fateful day. |
The problem is none of you people who are "waking up" provide any factual proof. Just nonsense and conspiracy theories which hold absolutley no truth at all.
Adamness
Reply #68 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:49 PM
Reply #68 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:49 PM
So much for the pleas for dignity...
Ok conspiracy theorists. I'd like you to answer one question: Why? Why would Bush, or Cheney, or whoever within the government want to plan and carry out the attacks of 5 years ago? To turn 60% of the country against them? To scare people for 8 years? To pass some unconstitutional laws? To get some money? To please Lord Xenu?
There are, in fact, no good reasons why anyone in the government would do this. Any bad things they've done will most likely be reversed after they leave office, and a decent administration comes in. It seems like a lot of work to terrorize the country for 8 years, and then just leave.
Which brings up another point. The government, this administration in particular, is completely incompetent to carry these attacks out. The attacks themselves took years to work out, and if the government planned it, it would have taken more years, and hundreds, if not thousands of people. Come on, these are the guys who can't handle a hurricane. They go into a war based on manipulation and fabrication, and can't even carry that out successfully. This is the first war with tax cuts. (For only the rich, no less.) Everything these guys do goes to the crapper, and there is no way I'd believe they'd be able to carry out these attacks, and not have it backfire or not have whistleblowers come out.
I'm sure you guys have a full grasp of engineering and physics to explain why the towers couldn't come down with out explosives. But if you don't, virtually the entire scientific community that has researched and looked into the attacks have concluded there were no explosives, the the towers came down as a result of the impact. (Of course there are a couple of professors and engineers to are into this conspiracy theory, but there are also biologists who believe in Creationism, or climate scientists who don't think global warming is happening at all. You can't just listen to the extremes or exceptions, and ignore everything else.)
I really didn't want to have to discuss this, especially here, but the theorists seem not to have any respect. If I'm out of place for arguing, please forgive me, and I don't mind if this post is deleted.
Ok conspiracy theorists. I'd like you to answer one question: Why? Why would Bush, or Cheney, or whoever within the government want to plan and carry out the attacks of 5 years ago? To turn 60% of the country against them? To scare people for 8 years? To pass some unconstitutional laws? To get some money? To please Lord Xenu?
There are, in fact, no good reasons why anyone in the government would do this. Any bad things they've done will most likely be reversed after they leave office, and a decent administration comes in. It seems like a lot of work to terrorize the country for 8 years, and then just leave.
Which brings up another point. The government, this administration in particular, is completely incompetent to carry these attacks out. The attacks themselves took years to work out, and if the government planned it, it would have taken more years, and hundreds, if not thousands of people. Come on, these are the guys who can't handle a hurricane. They go into a war based on manipulation and fabrication, and can't even carry that out successfully. This is the first war with tax cuts. (For only the rich, no less.) Everything these guys do goes to the crapper, and there is no way I'd believe they'd be able to carry out these attacks, and not have it backfire or not have whistleblowers come out.
I'm sure you guys have a full grasp of engineering and physics to explain why the towers couldn't come down with out explosives. But if you don't, virtually the entire scientific community that has researched and looked into the attacks have concluded there were no explosives, the the towers came down as a result of the impact. (Of course there are a couple of professors and engineers to are into this conspiracy theory, but there are also biologists who believe in Creationism, or climate scientists who don't think global warming is happening at all. You can't just listen to the extremes or exceptions, and ignore everything else.)
I really didn't want to have to discuss this, especially here, but the theorists seem not to have any respect. If I'm out of place for arguing, please forgive me, and I don't mind if this post is deleted.
Island Dog
Reply #69 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:52 PM
Reply #69 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:52 PM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
Here you go conspiracy theorists.
PICHIN
Reply #71 Monday, September 11, 2006 9:30 PM
Reply #71 Monday, September 11, 2006 9:30 PM
MY THANKS GOES OUT TO THOSE WHO AGREE WITH ME. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE STILL IN THE DARK AND BELIEVE WHAT THE "OFFICIAL" STORY WAS, WATCH THIS AND THEN I'LL ACCEPT YOUR CRITICISM. AT LEAST HAVE THE COURAGE TO INFORM YOURSELF. ONCE AGAIN MY HEART AND SOUL GOES OUT TO ALL THE LIVES LOST ON 9/11.....HERE'S THE LINK.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726
INFORMATION IS POWER.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726
INFORMATION IS POWER.
strebmeister
Reply #73 Monday, September 11, 2006 10:14 PM
Reply #73 Monday, September 11, 2006 10:14 PM
PICHIN and White Wolf. As a former USAF Sergeant and now a VP running global infrastructure for a major comapny, I find your assessment of the military IQ both insulting and inaccurate. The fact is that the IQ of the average soldier is irrelevant in war time. It's the size of their heart and commitment to freedom that matters. Where is yours? Have some respect...
Lastly... And everyone else, please forgive me here...
Can you do us all a favor and give us one link (just one) that you visited that challenged the information your presenting? Can you prove that you have objectively looked at all sides. Can you cite one opinion contrary to the views presented?
A long time ago people were killed because they said the earth wasn't at the center of the universe even though they were right. There are also still people today who can cite "scientific proof" that it is and they say we are all nuts.
Which are you?
Lastly... And everyone else, please forgive me here...
Can you do us all a favor and give us one link (just one) that you visited that challenged the information your presenting? Can you prove that you have objectively looked at all sides. Can you cite one opinion contrary to the views presented?
A long time ago people were killed because they said the earth wasn't at the center of the universe even though they were right. There are also still people today who can cite "scientific proof" that it is and they say we are all nuts.
Which are you?
Iamwithin
Reply #74 Monday, September 11, 2006 10:19 PM
Reply #74 Monday, September 11, 2006 10:19 PM
Two years ago one of my dear friends
told me what it was like the night he ran to his
buddy and tried to hold the top of his head together
so that his brain wouldn't slosh out. They were
caught in the middle of the Viet Nam war and
an explosion had hit nearby.
It still gave him nightmares in 2004.
There wasn't much I could say so
I let him cry and I cried with him.
Last year, I met a lady from New York.
She was studying to become an assistant
pastor for her church. It seems the fear
and suffering felt by everyone on that 9/11
had made her accutely aware of people's pain.
Indeed, I could feel hers as she told me of that day.
She had only recently come to grips with it and
wanted to help others.
She still cries when she describes that day.
I could only listen and cry with her.
Recently, I watched an innocent muslim woman who had lost her
young children in a bombing in Iraq that everyone said
was necessary because the insurgents were hiding in a house nearby.
I saw her pain, I knew that she would never get over it.
These are all our brothers and sisters of the world.
There is nothing that can justify any of this suffering.
I pray for them one and all.
Bill
told me what it was like the night he ran to his
buddy and tried to hold the top of his head together
so that his brain wouldn't slosh out. They were
caught in the middle of the Viet Nam war and
an explosion had hit nearby.
It still gave him nightmares in 2004.
There wasn't much I could say so
I let him cry and I cried with him.
Last year, I met a lady from New York.
She was studying to become an assistant
pastor for her church. It seems the fear
and suffering felt by everyone on that 9/11
had made her accutely aware of people's pain.
Indeed, I could feel hers as she told me of that day.
She had only recently come to grips with it and
wanted to help others.
She still cries when she describes that day.
I could only listen and cry with her.
Recently, I watched an innocent muslim woman who had lost her
young children in a bombing in Iraq that everyone said
was necessary because the insurgents were hiding in a house nearby.
I saw her pain, I knew that she would never get over it.
These are all our brothers and sisters of the world.
There is nothing that can justify any of this suffering.
I pray for them one and all.
Bill
DesignCaddy
Reply #75 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:07 AM
Reply #75 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:07 AM
This is long, feel free to skip it.
The Popular Mechanics article is a great report. I hope some of these insensitive - ahem - 'ill-informed' people would take a look at it before spouting their political, biggot, conspiracy theories. I have something to add to that about the two building's demise, which i hope should give people comfort as it did me, to learn the how's and why's. It seems appropriate, to help dispell rumors.
In a conventional skyscraper, the iron structure is a grid of columns and beams. The higher the building, the more weight the structure needs to bear, and the more columns are used. If you look at the Empire State Building, its floors are a mass of columns. The design of the two towers was very innovative. In fact it was revolutionary. The designer saught to free up floor space by taking all those columns out of the floor space, and placed them in to the external wall. The vertical lines running up the side of the towers were not facade - those were the MANY iron columns doubled up on the out-side walls. The core of the building was linked t othe external wall by horizonal 'vvvv' shaped trusses. The weight was thus trasferred from many columns in the middle, to a reinforced outside wall, and ther result was office space free of the clutter of columns.
Sound weak? it's not.. the buildings structure was designed to be strong enough to hold the weight of the building, and also be able to take the impact of an airplane - the largest plane at the time, the B767.
When the planes hit the buildings, there was a massive explosion from the jet fuel, the building's shook and swayed, but the building's structure held. The designer's plan had worked. However there was something that was not taken in to account - fire.
Steel is sprayed with foam fireproofing. However, the impact of the planes simply blew the fireproofing off of the steel, like blowing dust off of a table top. The steel was now exposed to fire, and not just the fire from jet fuel. This was an office - there was paper, furniture - fabrics and chemicals which burn hot. It was this raging fire on open steal that did not melt but became weakend. The trusses linking the building's core to the external steel were fastened - not poorly or incorrectly but - relatively lightly. The trusses weakend and began to fall from btween the core and external wall. As these horizonal trusses began to fall, the exterior wall, bearing the weight of the floors above, began to pull away from the core, and the structure was compromised. The supporting steel, now disconected from the core, could not take the weight of the upper floors, and they pancaked - when a floor loses its support and falls to the floor below it, which can not take the extra weight, and itself collapses. Notice on replays that the building collapsing downward pours out at the sides.
The 2nd tower to be hit fell first. It wasn't burning as long. But it was hit far lower in the structure. The structure had to bear the weight of more floors, and was compromised sooner.
By the way - gravity pulls all things falling down at the same pace. Drop a bolling ball and a book from a plane and, excluding wind resistance on their round vs flat surfaces, they will hit at the same time.
The collapse of the structure was not the only excuse for loss of life. People had some time to get out. But there was a problem with the way the towers - and a lot of buildings - were designed. The core, the central block housing elevaters and emergency stair towers, was surrounded by fire retardant drywall - sheetrock. However the impact of the planes blew this drywall clear away - like the fireproofing - exposing the stairs to fire. Also, the planes sheared through the core. Anyone above the impact floors had no way to get down.
Buildings now are being designed in different ways.
For the last several years i've worked for a construction management company. I was in marketing, but i had access to a lot of interesting materials. In addition, my father is the engineer responsible for 1701 JFK Blouvevard ( Comcast Center ) in Philadelphia - which at 1007 ft will be the tallest building between new york and chicago. This tower was re-designed in direct response to the two towers.
The building has a concrete core. Not steal covered in drywall. It is a grid of 52 inch thick walls, and every day after it's been poured, it continues to get harder and harder. ( "Dad, if it's so strong, how will you ever take it down in 100 years? You don't. ) You can ram a plane in to it. You can blast it at the base. You can not punch through it. If a plane were to hit it and/or a terrible fire ensued, by the time the steel was weakened enough to collapse, everyone in the building could be inside the core safetly making their way down the stair towers. The building would collapse, and you were see this ominous concrete pillar towering over the city ( it already is ).
In addition to things like a concrete core, fireproofing has been enhanced since 1975 - with great improvements in the last couple years. It doesn't blow off from impact, and it resists greater temperatures over longer periods of time. Most buildings also do not use trusses like the two towers did.
I hope this helps some people understand what happened...
The Popular Mechanics article is a great report. I hope some of these insensitive - ahem - 'ill-informed' people would take a look at it before spouting their political, biggot, conspiracy theories. I have something to add to that about the two building's demise, which i hope should give people comfort as it did me, to learn the how's and why's. It seems appropriate, to help dispell rumors.
In a conventional skyscraper, the iron structure is a grid of columns and beams. The higher the building, the more weight the structure needs to bear, and the more columns are used. If you look at the Empire State Building, its floors are a mass of columns. The design of the two towers was very innovative. In fact it was revolutionary. The designer saught to free up floor space by taking all those columns out of the floor space, and placed them in to the external wall. The vertical lines running up the side of the towers were not facade - those were the MANY iron columns doubled up on the out-side walls. The core of the building was linked t othe external wall by horizonal 'vvvv' shaped trusses. The weight was thus trasferred from many columns in the middle, to a reinforced outside wall, and ther result was office space free of the clutter of columns.
Sound weak? it's not.. the buildings structure was designed to be strong enough to hold the weight of the building, and also be able to take the impact of an airplane - the largest plane at the time, the B767.
When the planes hit the buildings, there was a massive explosion from the jet fuel, the building's shook and swayed, but the building's structure held. The designer's plan had worked. However there was something that was not taken in to account - fire.
Steel is sprayed with foam fireproofing. However, the impact of the planes simply blew the fireproofing off of the steel, like blowing dust off of a table top. The steel was now exposed to fire, and not just the fire from jet fuel. This was an office - there was paper, furniture - fabrics and chemicals which burn hot. It was this raging fire on open steal that did not melt but became weakend. The trusses linking the building's core to the external steel were fastened - not poorly or incorrectly but - relatively lightly. The trusses weakend and began to fall from btween the core and external wall. As these horizonal trusses began to fall, the exterior wall, bearing the weight of the floors above, began to pull away from the core, and the structure was compromised. The supporting steel, now disconected from the core, could not take the weight of the upper floors, and they pancaked - when a floor loses its support and falls to the floor below it, which can not take the extra weight, and itself collapses. Notice on replays that the building collapsing downward pours out at the sides.
The 2nd tower to be hit fell first. It wasn't burning as long. But it was hit far lower in the structure. The structure had to bear the weight of more floors, and was compromised sooner.
By the way - gravity pulls all things falling down at the same pace. Drop a bolling ball and a book from a plane and, excluding wind resistance on their round vs flat surfaces, they will hit at the same time.
The collapse of the structure was not the only excuse for loss of life. People had some time to get out. But there was a problem with the way the towers - and a lot of buildings - were designed. The core, the central block housing elevaters and emergency stair towers, was surrounded by fire retardant drywall - sheetrock. However the impact of the planes blew this drywall clear away - like the fireproofing - exposing the stairs to fire. Also, the planes sheared through the core. Anyone above the impact floors had no way to get down.
Buildings now are being designed in different ways.
For the last several years i've worked for a construction management company. I was in marketing, but i had access to a lot of interesting materials. In addition, my father is the engineer responsible for 1701 JFK Blouvevard ( Comcast Center ) in Philadelphia - which at 1007 ft will be the tallest building between new york and chicago. This tower was re-designed in direct response to the two towers.
The building has a concrete core. Not steal covered in drywall. It is a grid of 52 inch thick walls, and every day after it's been poured, it continues to get harder and harder. ( "Dad, if it's so strong, how will you ever take it down in 100 years? You don't. ) You can ram a plane in to it. You can blast it at the base. You can not punch through it. If a plane were to hit it and/or a terrible fire ensued, by the time the steel was weakened enough to collapse, everyone in the building could be inside the core safetly making their way down the stair towers. The building would collapse, and you were see this ominous concrete pillar towering over the city ( it already is ).
In addition to things like a concrete core, fireproofing has been enhanced since 1975 - with great improvements in the last couple years. It doesn't blow off from impact, and it resists greater temperatures over longer periods of time. Most buildings also do not use trusses like the two towers did.
I hope this helps some people understand what happened...
snowboarder74
Reply #76 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:11 AM
Reply #76 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:11 AM
Pichin, Madmike and Whitewolf...
I understand the point you're trying to make and all I'll say is that I have my own opinions of what happened prior to that day, on that day, after that day and where we are now. However, there is a time and a place to discuss this and I think you guys know that this isn't it.
And to those of you who don't agree.......the beauty of one aspect of our nation in full view for all patriots to see even if it makes your blood boil.
And some words to my brothers in arms...Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler. The man was not a lunatic and saw things for the way they truly are.
Nuff said.
SB
I understand the point you're trying to make and all I'll say is that I have my own opinions of what happened prior to that day, on that day, after that day and where we are now. However, there is a time and a place to discuss this and I think you guys know that this isn't it.
And to those of you who don't agree.......the beauty of one aspect of our nation in full view for all patriots to see even if it makes your blood boil.
And some words to my brothers in arms...Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler. The man was not a lunatic and saw things for the way they truly are.
Nuff said.
SB
DesignCaddy
Reply #77 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:23 AM
Reply #77 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:23 AM
SO. That's that.
Several of my professors lived and worked in lower manhatten. Some of them lost their offices and studios, some lost their friends. They cancelled classes the next several days. The afternoon of the attakcs i went to give blood with my roomates. We walked back and forthe across town, and the hospitals were over crowded with people coming in. I choked up, i thought it was so wonderful that everyone was trying to help. Later in the day i was overwhelmed, i wanted to do something.. i went back to work and grabbed my boots and a couple hard hats for my friends, and i went to jersey to pick them up. People at work looked at me like i was crazy. We were going to go to new york and save someone. I was on the road already before my dad called me and urged me to come home.. i hadn't thought it through, the crossing to ny was closed. He put it in perspective. It was as if a whole city had fallen down, and we couldn't help. It just. sucked.
Where were you that day?
Several of my professors lived and worked in lower manhatten. Some of them lost their offices and studios, some lost their friends. They cancelled classes the next several days. The afternoon of the attakcs i went to give blood with my roomates. We walked back and forthe across town, and the hospitals were over crowded with people coming in. I choked up, i thought it was so wonderful that everyone was trying to help. Later in the day i was overwhelmed, i wanted to do something.. i went back to work and grabbed my boots and a couple hard hats for my friends, and i went to jersey to pick them up. People at work looked at me like i was crazy. We were going to go to new york and save someone. I was on the road already before my dad called me and urged me to come home.. i hadn't thought it through, the crossing to ny was closed. He put it in perspective. It was as if a whole city had fallen down, and we couldn't help. It just. sucked.
Where were you that day?
CerebroJD
Reply #78 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:33 AM
Reply #78 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:33 AM
I was delivering papers with my mom in the morning when I first heard it on the radio that one plane had hit. When we got home, we watched on tv as the second one was struck... the rest of the day was spent watching, and talking about why someone could do that.
KiloKrash
Reply #80 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
I was in my high school Journalism class. We had two televisions, access to the web, and radios everywhere. So we were some of the few in our school that scattered the word around. I watched it all live on TV. One plane after another. The rest of the day was basically spent wathcing the news. Everything stopped. People were crying, some couldn't handle it after the second plane hit. I can only imagine what it was like to be in the city that day.
Reply #80 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
| Where were you that day? |
I was in my high school Journalism class. We had two televisions, access to the web, and radios everywhere. So we were some of the few in our school that scattered the word around. I watched it all live on TV. One plane after another. The rest of the day was basically spent wathcing the news. Everything stopped. People were crying, some couldn't handle it after the second plane hit. I can only imagine what it was like to be in the city that day.
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Reply #61 Monday, September 11, 2006 8:06 PM
I'm sure Buzzflash has hundreds of reporters and investigators out combing the streets and peeking through windows. Although they don't post one spec of proof, you swallow the load whole. I'm willing to bet, between all of the links you posted there's not 1 investigative reporter or respectable journalist.
Where did you "Look It Up" ? Regurgitation of previously spewed puke is not facts...just more puke.
Just curious fellows.....how do you explain away the fact that Al Jeezera hosted Mr. Bin Laden CLAIMING responsibility for the attack. Maybe he works for the CIA, or maybe Al Jeezera is a USA owned/operated organization........