Apple: Preemptive whining
Vista vista vista and so forth..
Tuesday, August 8, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Robert McLaws says Apple has Vista envy. And I think he's right. MacOS X, which is currently the best desktop OS out there in my opinion, is starting to feel the heat from Windows Vista.
Rather than wait for Vista to actually ship, Apple has taken a preemptive whining about Microsoft "stealing" their ideas.
Here are two free clues for Apple:
Clue #1: Sometimes an idea is so obvious that people will come up with it independently.
Clue #2: Sometimes what you put into the OS has already been out, were you copying?
With Apple's new MacOS, Leopard, Apple is touting a number of features such as Time Machine (basically a brute force version of Stardock's KeepSafe which, no doubt, will have Apple zealots eventually retroactively claiming they had it first).
The most obnoxious thing of the show as reported by LonghornBlogs is Apple tweaking the Vista logo to make it look like Microsoft just took the Windows logo and put it in an Aqua bubble:
Bad move since anyone can look at the actual Vista logo and tell that no, that's not it.
An article on WinCustomize.com asks "Why do people hate the Mac so much?". It's not that people hate the Mac. It's fantastic hardware with a terrific OS. It's the pretentious, elitist Mac users people don't like. Users falsely claiming that Apple was first to put some feature into the OS (or some Apple ISV) despite the feature existing on Windows for years. Mac users acting as if they are superior for choosing a Mac over a PC (hey, I'd buy a Mac Pro for video editing but it doesn't support mini-DVD camcorders which I absolutely favor).
Apple tactics such as the "Redmond, start your photocopiers" nonsense and it's obnoxious ads absolutely encourage its rabid fanbase to behave so loathsome that I know plenty of people who won't buy a Mac simply because they don't want to be associated with "those 'people'".
By all accounts, MacOS X Leopard is going to be outstanding and coupled with state of the art hardware, it's in a great position. Let the quality of the product speak for you -- not endless whining and pontificating. Be the platform of true power users, not the platform for pretentious weenies who think getting a Mac will somehow make up for all the wedgies they got in highschool.
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thomassen
Reply #22 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:55 PM
What's the point of advertising to your existing die-hard fans? Surely you'd want to appeal to more new people.
I don't have anything personal against Apple. The OSX seems like a fine OS, the iPod seem like a nice player. However as it is now, I have more advanteges with a PC and I currently don't have money to buy an iPod. If I could buy one I still wouldn't as I think there is better players out there. But who knows what Apple might offer in the future. They got a nice range of products. But I don't feel comfortable with a business who's marketing mocks other businesses, at least not by pointer fingers spesificly.
Reply #22 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:55 PM
| you guys are missing a big score with the apple ads and philosophy..: the fan boys. |
What's the point of advertising to your existing die-hard fans? Surely you'd want to appeal to more new people.
I don't have anything personal against Apple. The OSX seems like a fine OS, the iPod seem like a nice player. However as it is now, I have more advanteges with a PC and I currently don't have money to buy an iPod. If I could buy one I still wouldn't as I think there is better players out there. But who knows what Apple might offer in the future. They got a nice range of products. But I don't feel comfortable with a business who's marketing mocks other businesses, at least not by pointer fingers spesificly.
o0SHUUMI0o
Reply #23 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:16 PM
Reply #23 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 2:16 PM
hmmmm those apple idiots think macs are so much better? well if they were....and its not just power...its ease of use and compatibility, then bill gates wouldnt be the richest man on earth....it would be the owner of apple...by the way, what the F@$#!! is his name? see my point
DesignCaddy
Reply #24 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:58 PM
Reply #24 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:58 PM
I've noticed something, however. Microsoft may have its gobble up tactics, and a big reach which it can use to sway technologies - but they havn't resorted to childish games. I've never seen them do such a thing ( well i'm sure they just CAN'T ! - they'd get slapped with a zillion law suites ). They don't NEED the press, they don't need to defend themselves, they'll let their products speak for themselves.
Soemthing that i've noticed amoung the PC user's responce to these ads that i don't like..
I havn't seen a solid 'This is a mac.. this is a pc' retort that doesn't include something like "eww, you're stinky.. leave me alone". I want to see someone make a serious challenging ad that points out the lies of the mac ads, and the advantages of the pc ( yes there are many advantages! not just games! ). Example? my scanner.. my camera.. my hard drives..none of these needed drivers.. virtual memory.. um. 7.1 surround sound?
We've been using amd/intel chips for years, we know what they can do!
Soemthing that i've noticed amoung the PC user's responce to these ads that i don't like..
I havn't seen a solid 'This is a mac.. this is a pc' retort that doesn't include something like "eww, you're stinky.. leave me alone". I want to see someone make a serious challenging ad that points out the lies of the mac ads, and the advantages of the pc ( yes there are many advantages! not just games! ). Example? my scanner.. my camera.. my hard drives..none of these needed drivers.. virtual memory.. um. 7.1 surround sound?
We've been using amd/intel chips for years, we know what they can do!
spoon_T_Rex
Reply #25 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:37 PM
Apparently you're only talking about the OS side of MS--Check out the console wars between them and Sony and you see a very different MS, one that doesn't look too different from Apple's position in the OS world.
Reply #25 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:37 PM
| I've noticed something, however. Microsoft may have its gobble up tactics, and a big reach which it can use to sway technologies - but they havn't resorted to childish games. I've never seen them do such a thing ( well i'm sure they just CAN'T ! - they'd get slapped with a zillion law suites ). They don't NEED the press, they don't need to defend themselves, they'll let their products speak for themselves. |
Apparently you're only talking about the OS side of MS--Check out the console wars between them and Sony and you see a very different MS, one that doesn't look too different from Apple's position in the OS world.
Sraf
Reply #26 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:48 PM
They do indeed attack Sony in the console world, though not even close to the same manner or magnatude that Apple does in the OS arena.
Reply #26 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:48 PM
| Apparently you're only talking about the OS side of MS--Check out the console wars between them and Sony and you see a very different MS, one that doesn't look too different from Apple's position in the OS world. |
They do indeed attack Sony in the console world, though not even close to the same manner or magnatude that Apple does in the OS arena.
_DrDrrae_
Reply #27 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:13 PM
I'm not saying that it's right but wouldn't they be in Apple's position? Sony has sold far more consoles that Microsoft just like Microsoft has sold far more _____ (fill in the blank with just about anything) than Apple.
Reply #27 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:13 PM
| Apparently you're only talking about the OS side of MS--Check out the console wars between them and Sony and you see a very different MS, one that doesn't look too different from Apple's position in the OS world. |
Xiozan
Reply #28 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:32 PM
Reply #28 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:32 PM
Also, Leopard has these new features coming with it, yet did they mention that several of those new features were Open Source projects on OSX? Did Apple give the courtesy of a 'Thank You' or the Microsoft 'Buy Out'?
Nope. Instead, Apple claimed they invented it, how can they hope to keep Open Source software makers onboard when they will crush them and not even acknowledge the work that Apple will blatantly steal from these Open Source Software makers.
Spaces is a rip-off of Space.app Link
Let’s kill off Software makers so we can bundle software and claim we invented it...Yippee!!
At least Microsoft gives the person the courtesy of a reach-around and buy out. Can the same be said for Apple?
Along with their advertising, it seems to me that Apple is approaching that ill-fated implosion that happened in the 80s/90s when Apple lost its control of the market, resulting in a loss of the market share they have gained and being returned to just fanboy use.
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On the Console wars, can anyone cite a commericial or official statement bashing Sony or are they just statements and adverts promoting their Xbox?
- X
Nope. Instead, Apple claimed they invented it, how can they hope to keep Open Source software makers onboard when they will crush them and not even acknowledge the work that Apple will blatantly steal from these Open Source Software makers.
Spaces is a rip-off of Space.app Link
Let’s kill off Software makers so we can bundle software and claim we invented it...Yippee!!
At least Microsoft gives the person the courtesy of a reach-around and buy out. Can the same be said for Apple?
Along with their advertising, it seems to me that Apple is approaching that ill-fated implosion that happened in the 80s/90s when Apple lost its control of the market, resulting in a loss of the market share they have gained and being returned to just fanboy use.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the Console wars, can anyone cite a commericial or official statement bashing Sony or are they just statements and adverts promoting their Xbox?
- X
strebmeister
Reply #29 Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:15 AM
Reply #29 Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:15 AM
Let's take a step back in time to the 1970's when a newly formed company named Apple paid a visit to Xerox Parc and got all the ideas for their operating system including the mouse, icons and the GUI. Unlike today where the ideas are generally following a natural progression, this was not the case back then.
They blantantly stole a truly unique and innovative approach to computing that Xerox spent years developing (never mind the fact that Xerox wasn't very good at protecting their intellectual property back then). Microsoft bought the rights to DOS from IBM and then the story goes that Microsoft stole the idea for Windows 3.0 from Apple.
Of course Apple cried foul, but I wonder how it's possible to steal something that was stolen in the first place. In actuality, Microsoft turned Windows into the most successful OS in the world spanning both servers and desktops. Microsoft simply had better leaders. They focused on the will of the many, while Apple focused on the will of the individual. That's why you don't see enterprise scale networked file systems, email, or collaboration environments with Apple logos on them.
Certainly Apple has it's place in the creative world, but i've been doing alot of benchamrks in the Media and Entertainment industry and the vast majority of animation and special effects tools are done on UNIX and Windows systems. Apple actaully has a much narrower role in this space than they would have you believe.
Ultimately when it's time to get work down with organizations larger than 50 people, Microsoft is the only game in town. I would love to see Apple try to build something comparable to Exchange, Active Directory, Sharepoint, etc.
My guess is they would probably steal it to save all the years they lost trying to be cool...
They blantantly stole a truly unique and innovative approach to computing that Xerox spent years developing (never mind the fact that Xerox wasn't very good at protecting their intellectual property back then). Microsoft bought the rights to DOS from IBM and then the story goes that Microsoft stole the idea for Windows 3.0 from Apple.
Of course Apple cried foul, but I wonder how it's possible to steal something that was stolen in the first place. In actuality, Microsoft turned Windows into the most successful OS in the world spanning both servers and desktops. Microsoft simply had better leaders. They focused on the will of the many, while Apple focused on the will of the individual. That's why you don't see enterprise scale networked file systems, email, or collaboration environments with Apple logos on them.
Certainly Apple has it's place in the creative world, but i've been doing alot of benchamrks in the Media and Entertainment industry and the vast majority of animation and special effects tools are done on UNIX and Windows systems. Apple actaully has a much narrower role in this space than they would have you believe.
Ultimately when it's time to get work down with organizations larger than 50 people, Microsoft is the only game in town. I would love to see Apple try to build something comparable to Exchange, Active Directory, Sharepoint, etc.
My guess is they would probably steal it to save all the years they lost trying to be cool...
strebmeister
Reply #30 Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:31 AM
Reply #30 Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:31 AM
On the support,stability and features side, I forgot to mention.
I run global infrastructure for one of the music majors and our ratio of PC Desktop technicians to computers is roughly 1:175. Our ratio of
Mac tehcnicians to computers is 1:50. We simply have more issues integrating Macs into the enterprise which causes alot more hand holding.
Oh, and none of Windows users where suits like the Apple commercial. Almost all of them look more like the "cool kid" or even a little edgier.
But that's marketing for ya.
We only have 3 Mac XServers in the company and they are hosting a single label web site. In comparison, we have 50 web servers, 140 Linux servers and 20 Solaris servers hosting the remainder of our web sites and consumer marketing systems. (Oddly enough our only real issues in our environment are caused by PHP vulernabilities on Linux than viruses on Windows)
Again, this speaks volumes to just how feature rich the Mac actually is when there's real work to do.
I run global infrastructure for one of the music majors and our ratio of PC Desktop technicians to computers is roughly 1:175. Our ratio of
Mac tehcnicians to computers is 1:50. We simply have more issues integrating Macs into the enterprise which causes alot more hand holding.
Oh, and none of Windows users where suits like the Apple commercial. Almost all of them look more like the "cool kid" or even a little edgier.
But that's marketing for ya.
We only have 3 Mac XServers in the company and they are hosting a single label web site. In comparison, we have 50 web servers, 140 Linux servers and 20 Solaris servers hosting the remainder of our web sites and consumer marketing systems. (Oddly enough our only real issues in our environment are caused by PHP vulernabilities on Linux than viruses on Windows)
Again, this speaks volumes to just how feature rich the Mac actually is when there's real work to do.
Sembetu
Reply #31 Friday, August 11, 2006 12:48 AM
hmmm... doesn't look like time machine has near the usability of Time Machine. Brute Force? That's a Windows Developer's job.
Reply #31 Friday, August 11, 2006 12:48 AM
| Time Machine (basically a brute force version of Stardock's KeepSafe |
hmmm... doesn't look like time machine has near the usability of Time Machine. Brute Force? That's a Windows Developer's job.
KenzieZero
Reply #32 Friday, August 11, 2006 5:09 AM
Reply #32 Friday, August 11, 2006 5:09 AM
Well, I found this pic online that sums up how I feel about the Apple BS brigade, Mac zealots and those stupid ads...
'nuff said
'nuff said
skinz2nice
Reply #33 Friday, August 11, 2006 10:24 AM
Reply #33 Friday, August 11, 2006 10:24 AM
Good pic dpxmedia. Thats kind of funny. Bascially what I think about this whole situation is that Microsoft is in the working of good ideas and Apple just wants to steal them because they want to be the ones to have the shine. They want to put microsoft out the window. Its better to come up with your own ideas than to steal them from one of the richest companys in the world like Microosft. I mean come on, Putting a Windows OS on a mac computer. Enough said, why do that. Like one of the users said earlier, "What about Mac OS on a Windows OS". That would be great if you could do that. All I know is that Bill gates is not going to let anybody get him down. He will come up with a way to stab Apple In the back. Shame on Mac. Stealing ideas from other companies. In that case how would that make Mac a completely different OS if some of there ideas are stolen from another totally different OS. Cut the crap Apple. You just cant win.
KenzieZero
Reply #34 Friday, August 11, 2006 12:54 PM
Reply #34 Friday, August 11, 2006 12:54 PM
Or here's a novel idea for Apple: How about marketing around your own strengths, instead of trying to belittle your rivals? I'd like to see them try and do that, and NOT mention Microsoft at all in their ad campaigns. Steve Jobs/Apple/Mac fanboys, end your puerile, whiny little b*tch act, it does you more harm than good.
George Rogers Jr
Reply #35 Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:05 AM
Reply #35 Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:05 AM
I agree with you dpxmedia; you've hit the nail on the head...just stick to your strengths, design your system, & stop with the "perpetual petulance" concerning MS. Apple DOESN'T want to appeal to the mass market with the way they run their business.
zenjefrey
Reply #36 Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:53 AM
Reply #36 Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:53 AM
This whole debate has gone on for years, and years, and years, and it probably will never stop. People are loyal, sometimes to a fault, and will judge and ridicule others because as humans, we have pride, and if people do not agree with us, we wish to put them down to feel secure socially, in order to reinforce our decisions and feel that we have made the right choices in our lives. The moment someone questions our choices regarding anything, we will defend, often without regard to objective data, with emotionally attached arguments. Add to the our personal experiences are not always objective either. They are just our experiences, often valid ones, however isolated those experiences may be from the rest of the "tribe."
Cost effectiveness: PC. My last client I just charged a good sum of money for virus removal, and replaced their CD rom, which was a generic drive in an HP pavillion, which after taking it apart, I found it to be incredibly, well, cheap. It was begging to break under normal use. What's more, the power button was flimsly, and also required super glue to fix, as it was plastic and it was fused to the case, with the plastic acting as a spring, which of course over time will become brittle and break. It was pure cheese. My client saved money initially, by purchasing a cheap PC, but over time, they have had to spend more on it, than they would a Mac, to do the same things, better. And I'm talking about "their" actual use as far as the same things. And, I will be doing more work for them in the future as well. The cost to own a PC, keep it up and running, especially with the viruses and spyware out there, is enormous compared to the Mac...and you HAVE to factor in the time required in that upkeep. Some don't have problems, but I have a huge base of people I'm doing work for now, who have all sorts of problems that need to fixed, and I'm getting well paid for it.
On the other hand, I know many who own Macs. I haven't gotten a single call from them to fix or even help them figure anything out.
Of course, this is just my experience, so this is relative. In ten years, I have only had to work on one Mac, and that was on a machine that was not treated well by the user at all...or her cats.
As far as being afraid of what people think if you use a Mac, and get "grouped"...jeez, grow up! Who cares what people think. Use what you want to use. And, I've repeatedly tried to get people to take advice, not just in buying a Mac, but also in getting them to use stuff on their PC that will make their life easier and safer, like using Firefox instead of IE. Ond person decided that a spyware program all of a sudden was getting in the way of his using experience and removed it from his system. Two days later, he was getting his data backed up and his HD formatted...OS install. The software in question was doing it's job to protect him, and he thought it was getting in the way. People are just stubborn, and emotional when it comes to computers in general. I keep getting paid though, and that's what matters to me, even if some of the people I work for are friends, and I'd like to see them do what I think they should. But when they don't, often they call, give me money, and then take my advice more.
We are all suckers for a quick fix, a good deal, without thinking about the future, and we spend too much time worrying about what others will think of us. People think I'm somehow tainted to own Macs. Well, I have an 8 year old G3 (350mhz), that boots up Tiger faster than my Windows box boots, and faster than my roommates dual AMD 64 bit $2000 box. Sure, it's not faster in doing a lot of things...it's 8 years old. But, it's still EXTREMELY functional. Video is it's biggest speed hit. Guess what, I don't do video. Web design, computer repair, consulting and web administration/network engineering. The Mac has been a big factor in this business of mine, a very profitable factor. The emotion of satisfaction after a hard day of work. That's what my Mac gives me. And PC users give me money to fix their woes. In a way, I hope the PC doesn't go away soon. I make a very good living on that end of things.
Cost effectiveness: PC. My last client I just charged a good sum of money for virus removal, and replaced their CD rom, which was a generic drive in an HP pavillion, which after taking it apart, I found it to be incredibly, well, cheap. It was begging to break under normal use. What's more, the power button was flimsly, and also required super glue to fix, as it was plastic and it was fused to the case, with the plastic acting as a spring, which of course over time will become brittle and break. It was pure cheese. My client saved money initially, by purchasing a cheap PC, but over time, they have had to spend more on it, than they would a Mac, to do the same things, better. And I'm talking about "their" actual use as far as the same things. And, I will be doing more work for them in the future as well. The cost to own a PC, keep it up and running, especially with the viruses and spyware out there, is enormous compared to the Mac...and you HAVE to factor in the time required in that upkeep. Some don't have problems, but I have a huge base of people I'm doing work for now, who have all sorts of problems that need to fixed, and I'm getting well paid for it.
On the other hand, I know many who own Macs. I haven't gotten a single call from them to fix or even help them figure anything out.
Of course, this is just my experience, so this is relative. In ten years, I have only had to work on one Mac, and that was on a machine that was not treated well by the user at all...or her cats.
As far as being afraid of what people think if you use a Mac, and get "grouped"...jeez, grow up! Who cares what people think. Use what you want to use. And, I've repeatedly tried to get people to take advice, not just in buying a Mac, but also in getting them to use stuff on their PC that will make their life easier and safer, like using Firefox instead of IE. Ond person decided that a spyware program all of a sudden was getting in the way of his using experience and removed it from his system. Two days later, he was getting his data backed up and his HD formatted...OS install. The software in question was doing it's job to protect him, and he thought it was getting in the way. People are just stubborn, and emotional when it comes to computers in general. I keep getting paid though, and that's what matters to me, even if some of the people I work for are friends, and I'd like to see them do what I think they should. But when they don't, often they call, give me money, and then take my advice more.
We are all suckers for a quick fix, a good deal, without thinking about the future, and we spend too much time worrying about what others will think of us. People think I'm somehow tainted to own Macs. Well, I have an 8 year old G3 (350mhz), that boots up Tiger faster than my Windows box boots, and faster than my roommates dual AMD 64 bit $2000 box. Sure, it's not faster in doing a lot of things...it's 8 years old. But, it's still EXTREMELY functional. Video is it's biggest speed hit. Guess what, I don't do video.
Web design, computer repair, consulting and web administration/network engineering. The Mac has been a big factor in this business of mine, a very profitable factor. The emotion of satisfaction after a hard day of work. That's what my Mac gives me. And PC users give me money to fix their woes. In a way, I hope the PC doesn't go away soon. I make a very good living on that end of things.
zenjefrey
Reply #37 Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:13 AM
Reply #37 Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:13 AM
I wanted to add one more thing. Sure, Apple is putting down MS, in a rather ego boosting way. But, MS has also lied to us, especially as far as security goes. I would like to have seen Apple present more of the security issues that exist with XP currently, where now even the US government homeland security is urging XP users to make sure their computers are updated with fixes, rather than fixate on the Vista logo.
As my business involves securing things down for people, I find that the sense of security that people have regarding their computer use to be very naive unfortunately. That last client I mentioned...they were unaware that their infections were so widespread on their computer, and so serious that someone had control of their computer, changing even the name of their computer to be easily found on the net via that name to be used in remote DoS attacks, not to mention key logging and overall hijacking of just about anything and everything done on their computer. ID theft hasn't come up for them yet, but it's possible, and as it is now, PC's are much more vulnerable to this type of thing. Argue and rationalize all you want about why...if you're on a PC, most users on PC's are sitting ducks, 'cause they don't have the expertise that many on this thread probably have. And I ask now, why insist that all users be uber users in order to use their computer? I thought computers were supposed to be used, not the other way around. And yeah...I forgot that one call from a Mac user. As I wrote that, I thinking about recent repair jobs, and I too, am at fault for sometimes overlooking things as I debate as well, sometimes emotionally too.
As my business involves securing things down for people, I find that the sense of security that people have regarding their computer use to be very naive unfortunately. That last client I mentioned...they were unaware that their infections were so widespread on their computer, and so serious that someone had control of their computer, changing even the name of their computer to be easily found on the net via that name to be used in remote DoS attacks, not to mention key logging and overall hijacking of just about anything and everything done on their computer. ID theft hasn't come up for them yet, but it's possible, and as it is now, PC's are much more vulnerable to this type of thing. Argue and rationalize all you want about why...if you're on a PC, most users on PC's are sitting ducks, 'cause they don't have the expertise that many on this thread probably have. And I ask now, why insist that all users be uber users in order to use their computer? I thought computers were supposed to be used, not the other way around. And yeah...I forgot that one call from a Mac user. As I wrote that, I thinking about recent repair jobs, and I too, am at fault for sometimes overlooking things as I debate as well, sometimes emotionally too.
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Reply #21 Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:14 PM