Government rocks, or it sucks.
Sunday, January 8, 2006 by Adamness | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
So uh, how do you all feel about government? I'm not talking about Dubya Bush or any government in general, but rather the fundamental idea of government. Socialist or capitalist? Communist or fascist? Federal or confederate? Mixed? No government at all?
And by the way, don't start any 'I hate Bush' stuff. We're looking for something deeper than that. A few of us got a good religion thread going a few days ago, so I thought we could get a good government one going too.
Let's do this thing.
-Adam
Thinkbulb.com
And by the way, don't start any 'I hate Bush' stuff. We're looking for something deeper than that. A few of us got a good religion thread going a few days ago, so I thought we could get a good government one going too.
Let's do this thing.
-Adam
Thinkbulb.com
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starkers
Reply #22 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:03 PM
Precisely....and for mongrels too thick to pass the bar exams to become lawyers, another despicable form of gutter snipe who found practicing law was a more lucrative way of extorting funds than advertising.
Reply #22 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:03 PM
| Government.... Of the people, by the politicians, for the 'party'* * read...'vested interest' eg...union, corporation, 'the man'. Politics is for people who are too snide and underhand to be used-car salesmen or realestate agents. |
Precisely....and for mongrels too thick to pass the bar exams to become lawyers, another despicable form of gutter snipe who found practicing law was a more lucrative way of extorting funds than advertising.
Adamness
Reply #23 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:12 PM
Reply #23 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:12 PM
Yes, I agree politicians aren't the most trustworthy or honest chaps around, but what could change to have some honest and functioning government?
Jafo
Reply #24 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:38 PM
Reply #24 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:38 PM
| I agree politicians aren't the most trustworthy or honest chaps around, but what could change to have some honest and functioning government? |
Hell could freeze over...
Britney Spears could learn to sing...
Common sense could actually live up to its name...
Oh...all sorts of things....
WebGizmos
Reply #25 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:46 PM
Reply #25 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:46 PM
And Jafo would never have to spell check another living soul... 
WebGizmos
Reply #26 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:48 PM
"First thing we do, is kill all the lawyers"
Mark Twain
Reply #26 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:48 PM
| but what could change to have some honest and functioning government? |
"First thing we do, is kill all the lawyers"
Mark Twain
starkers
Reply #27 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:57 PM
Mass abolition of pollie perks/backhanders/salaries....mass sackings of a considerable number....mass imprisonment for the remainder guilty of impeachable offences.....mass executions for all the rest = clean slate, people power, meaning government for the people by the people....and anyone who betrays/diagrees with that concept, find 'em a rope, a tree and a necktie party.
Yeah, I know, I'm an anti-social, anti-government and anti-authoritarian bastard....but when you've been shit on as often as I have by them and their bureaucracies, you can only view them through an evil eye. I can attribute two unnecessary premature deaths in my family, directly and indirectly, to politicians ineptitude/inaction....their 'I'm alright Jack' attitudes.
I'm bitter alright...and when I have a 15 year old runaway who seriously needs their help and its repeatedly denied/refused, I have every right to be angry.
Rant off!
Reply #27 Sunday, January 8, 2006 10:57 PM
| Yes, I agree politicians aren't the most trustworthy or honest chaps around, but what could change to have some honest and functioning government? |
Mass abolition of pollie perks/backhanders/salaries....mass sackings of a considerable number....mass imprisonment for the remainder guilty of impeachable offences.....mass executions for all the rest = clean slate, people power, meaning government for the people by the people....and anyone who betrays/diagrees with that concept, find 'em a rope, a tree and a necktie party.
Yeah, I know, I'm an anti-social, anti-government and anti-authoritarian bastard....but when you've been shit on as often as I have by them and their bureaucracies, you can only view them through an evil eye. I can attribute two unnecessary premature deaths in my family, directly and indirectly, to politicians ineptitude/inaction....their 'I'm alright Jack' attitudes.
I'm bitter alright...and when I have a 15 year old runaway who seriously needs their help and its repeatedly denied/refused, I have every right to be angry.
Rant off!
NightTrainthedark
Reply #30 Monday, January 9, 2006 6:30 AM
Reply #30 Monday, January 9, 2006 6:30 AM
3 of the dirtiest people I knew growing up are all now politicians. A Mayor, a Selectman, and a I don't remember. Another person I knew very well is a State Representative and he is a good guy. They are not all bad. Just 75% of them need to die. 
Jafo
Reply #31 Monday, January 9, 2006 7:41 AM
Reply #31 Monday, January 9, 2006 7:41 AM
| I'm scared of you people. |
Citizen Adamness ....when you get older you too will concur.
Once you realise that by and large, the majority of politicians are there for just one thing......
Themselves.
starkers
Reply #32 Monday, January 9, 2006 7:45 AM
If only there were enough room...
My still seriously ill father was disharged from a public hospital to a supposedly govt accredited, fly infested, disease ridden nursing home because health budget cut backs suddenly made his bed vanish....obviously, my mother at the time was unable to care for him at home. Within just a few days of being there, my father developed serious sores/skin ulcers and a nasty chest infection...for which they had no choice but to re-hospitalise him, yet again. The problem for family that to visit him, it was a 12 hour round trip....essentially because they placed him out in the boondocks to die. During our visits, we witnessed very little or no medical attention that may have prolonged his life, much less improve the quality of what little he had left. This was a bureaucracy decision, rather than a medical one, and based purely on govt funding cuts to health services.
My father's official death certificate named cause of death as a result of massive organ failure due to vascular disease and increasing 'related' dementia. Yet an independant opinion concluded death by septecemia/salmonella poisoning....no wonder he suffered a massive organ failure, left untreated.
Reply #32 Monday, January 9, 2006 7:45 AM
| Let it all out Starkers! |
If only there were enough room...
My still seriously ill father was disharged from a public hospital to a supposedly govt accredited, fly infested, disease ridden nursing home because health budget cut backs suddenly made his bed vanish....obviously, my mother at the time was unable to care for him at home. Within just a few days of being there, my father developed serious sores/skin ulcers and a nasty chest infection...for which they had no choice but to re-hospitalise him, yet again. The problem for family that to visit him, it was a 12 hour round trip....essentially because they placed him out in the boondocks to die. During our visits, we witnessed very little or no medical attention that may have prolonged his life, much less improve the quality of what little he had left. This was a bureaucracy decision, rather than a medical one, and based purely on govt funding cuts to health services.
My father's official death certificate named cause of death as a result of massive organ failure due to vascular disease and increasing 'related' dementia. Yet an independant opinion concluded death by septecemia/salmonella poisoning....no wonder he suffered a massive organ failure, left untreated.
Adamness
Reply #33 Monday, January 9, 2006 11:34 AM
Reply #33 Monday, January 9, 2006 11:34 AM
Well, I guess there won't be the same kind of discussion as we got in the religion thread. Oh well.
starkers
Reply #34 Monday, January 9, 2006 12:48 PM
Why not? The original question asked what we thought of government, any government and why our views were held.
Essentially, I have answered your question, with details as to why politicians and/or government cannot and should not be trusted, given that 99.9% of their interests are self serving and rarely an honest thought given to the common good.
Another example of bureaucracy/govt gone haywire, out of control and self serving is the forced eviction of my 72 year old mother from her Govt Housing Dept home of 35 years. In all those years she was never, ever late or behind in her rent, and actually made improvements to raise the property value. Rent is calculated at being 25% of all household income. However, because another govt dept stated that my mother received a much greater sum than her aged pension, and she 'supposedly' fell into arrears as a result, they evicted her because she could not afford to pay this fabricated and creatively accounted debt out of her fortnightly pension....the ONLY income she received. A perfect tenant of 35 years, made homeless through bureaucratic/government greed, bungling, ineptitude and cronyism.....homes for the boys/friends/family, etc. We later learned that a family related to a govt dept official now occupies the home....so how is that government for the people by the people?
Fortunately, my sister's son took my mother in (I'm in another State) and she's happy there, but that's not the point. Politicians worldwide will sieze upon any opportunity to further/better themselves, families and friends....regardless of whose expense its at. For example, politicians on more than adequate salaries should be entirely forbidden to invest in land or any other holdings that reap huge financial rewards, particularly and even moreso when insider knowledge/trading was the key factor in making that investment....in fact it should be made a criminal offence punishable by the very same laws the bastards inflict upon us, sometimes unjustly because of perceived interference to a personal or political agenda.
I remember a Bush speech in which he said: " If yer not fer us, then yer agin' us." and I thought to myself then, 'I pity any poor bastard who gets in his way, don't agree, cos he'll march right over the top of 'em, and @%#* the burials".....and every country/nastion has parasites of a similar vein/thinking.
My very wise old grandmother used to say: "If you can't say anything nice, it's better to say nothing at all."....and normally I would whole heartedly agree, but in the case of politicians, the exception to the rule becomes first and second nature, given the betrayals committed throughout the world by so-called leaders and their cohorts.
Reply #34 Monday, January 9, 2006 12:48 PM
| Well, I guess there won't be the same kind of discussion as we got in the religion thread. |
Why not? The original question asked what we thought of government, any government and why our views were held.
Essentially, I have answered your question, with details as to why politicians and/or government cannot and should not be trusted, given that 99.9% of their interests are self serving and rarely an honest thought given to the common good.
Another example of bureaucracy/govt gone haywire, out of control and self serving is the forced eviction of my 72 year old mother from her Govt Housing Dept home of 35 years. In all those years she was never, ever late or behind in her rent, and actually made improvements to raise the property value. Rent is calculated at being 25% of all household income. However, because another govt dept stated that my mother received a much greater sum than her aged pension, and she 'supposedly' fell into arrears as a result, they evicted her because she could not afford to pay this fabricated and creatively accounted debt out of her fortnightly pension....the ONLY income she received. A perfect tenant of 35 years, made homeless through bureaucratic/government greed, bungling, ineptitude and cronyism.....homes for the boys/friends/family, etc. We later learned that a family related to a govt dept official now occupies the home....so how is that government for the people by the people?
Fortunately, my sister's son took my mother in (I'm in another State) and she's happy there, but that's not the point. Politicians worldwide will sieze upon any opportunity to further/better themselves, families and friends....regardless of whose expense its at. For example, politicians on more than adequate salaries should be entirely forbidden to invest in land or any other holdings that reap huge financial rewards, particularly and even moreso when insider knowledge/trading was the key factor in making that investment....in fact it should be made a criminal offence punishable by the very same laws the bastards inflict upon us, sometimes unjustly because of perceived interference to a personal or political agenda.
I remember a Bush speech in which he said: " If yer not fer us, then yer agin' us." and I thought to myself then, 'I pity any poor bastard who gets in his way, don't agree, cos he'll march right over the top of 'em, and @%#* the burials".....and every country/nastion has parasites of a similar vein/thinking.
My very wise old grandmother used to say: "If you can't say anything nice, it's better to say nothing at all."....and normally I would whole heartedly agree, but in the case of politicians, the exception to the rule becomes first and second nature, given the betrayals committed throughout the world by so-called leaders and their cohorts.
Adamness
Reply #35 Monday, January 9, 2006 1:13 PM
Reply #35 Monday, January 9, 2006 1:13 PM
But there is always something to be done. Saying all politicians are corrupt doesn't accomplish anything. We all know that already. I am wondering what types of systems you all think would prevent this. What could we, the citizens of the country, do to improve the system. It doesn't matter what particular country, since what one country does affects others, and most countries will experience the same types of problems, if they aren't already.
47songs
Reply #37 Monday, January 9, 2006 1:24 PM
You are quite the reasonable young man, Adamness. If/when you run, you've still got my vote!
Is it possible that some of those corrupted politicians started out with some of the same ideals as you? And if they did, what happened between the stretch of time from idealism to corruption and power?
Reply #37 Monday, January 9, 2006 1:24 PM
| Saying all politicians are corrupt doesn't accomplish anything. |
You are quite the reasonable young man, Adamness. If/when you run, you've still got my vote!
Is it possible that some of those corrupted politicians started out with some of the same ideals as you? And if they did, what happened between the stretch of time from idealism to corruption and power?
Adamness
Reply #38 Monday, January 9, 2006 2:33 PM
Reply #38 Monday, January 9, 2006 2:33 PM
I agree, 47songs. (Look at #13)
I simply find it hard to believe that any person who becomes a politician will always be swallowed up by the corruption. Someone has to break that cycle. I don't know if it would be me, but if it were, I don't see any situation in which I would give in to the corruption.
People often call me an idealist or naive, but wanting to get rid of corruption isn't being an idealist. It is being a concerned citizen.
I simply find it hard to believe that any person who becomes a politician will always be swallowed up by the corruption. Someone has to break that cycle. I don't know if it would be me, but if it were, I don't see any situation in which I would give in to the corruption.
People often call me an idealist or naive, but wanting to get rid of corruption isn't being an idealist. It is being a concerned citizen.
WebGizmos
Reply #39 Monday, January 9, 2006 4:20 PM
Reply #39 Monday, January 9, 2006 4:20 PM
Adamness...Corruption in government is so deeply rooted that you either go along or your forced out or rendered ineffective. The only way it will be stopped is by nation wide revolt...peaceful or otherwise. Trying to change things from within are usually buried in red tape or met with resistance and take forever. And they would rather it take forever due to the attention span of the general population. This government is very good at the dumbing down of the population.
And I for one certainly do not think your naive (Your young and learning...thats a good thing), as far as being an idealist...nothing wrong with that either. Fight the good fight! Never surrender!
And I for one certainly do not think your naive (Your young and learning...thats a good thing), as far as being an idealist...nothing wrong with that either. Fight the good fight! Never surrender!
47songs
Reply #40 Monday, January 9, 2006 4:33 PM
Reply #40 Monday, January 9, 2006 4:33 PM
I guess I missed your #13 post.
I do think it's possible (to break a cycle of corruption), but in todays political market, that would be a tall order, Adam. There are those who've recently tried, but, sadly, it brings only more corruption.
Greed is a human flaw. Our country is run my humans (well, sort of)! Since governemnt seems to be run only by greedy humans, what say we propose legistration to allow the government and our constitution be run by a computer?
***EDIT: "Corruption in government is so deeply rooted that you either go along or your forced out or rendered ineffective." I type too slow! Watergate type corruption is more prominant today than when Nixon was President. Woodward and Bernstein broke a cycle of corruption. Like I said, you've got my vote to try and break another!
| I don't see any situation in which I would give in to the corruption |
I do think it's possible (to break a cycle of corruption), but in todays political market, that would be a tall order, Adam. There are those who've recently tried, but, sadly, it brings only more corruption.
Greed is a human flaw. Our country is run my humans (well, sort of)! Since governemnt seems to be run only by greedy humans, what say we propose legistration to allow the government and our constitution be run by a computer?
***EDIT: "Corruption in government is so deeply rooted that you either go along or your forced out or rendered ineffective." I type too slow! Watergate type corruption is more prominant today than when Nixon was President. Woodward and Bernstein broke a cycle of corruption. Like I said, you've got my vote to try and break another!
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Reply #21 Sunday, January 8, 2006 8:47 PM
Government....
Of the people, by the politicians, for the 'party'*
* read...'vested interest' eg...union, corporation, 'the man'.
Politics is for people who are too snide and underhand to be used-car salesmen or realestate agents.
Come the revolution - we'll usurp them and put our own versions of the exact-same creatures in power....except then WE will be the 'vested interest'.
Same old shit....different date and time.
Jaded?....Moi?......