The New School Prayer
Wednesday, January 4, 2006 by WOM | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.
Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.
For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.
We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.
We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.
It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen
From watching whats on the news now a days, thought this made a lot of sense.
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Sleeping Dragon
Reply #82 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:09 PM
To say that it happened is not to say that it was God ordained any more than you could say that God ordained the killing of Jews in WWII. It happened, but not by God's hand.
You will find that God has always dealt with the issues of the day, but His standard never changed. He was the one who gave man dignity (made in the image of God) and never wanted for men to be slaves. Did Jesus talk about how a slave should respond to his master and visa versa? Yes, because He dealt with the issues of the day. Today He might talk about how a woman should deal with an abusive husband in the same manner.
...and when the "religious" people were ready to stone a woman caught in the act of adultery, it was Jesus who saved her, pointing out that the stoners were no more innocent than she in life.
He turned religion on it's head and spun it around, knowing that none of us is any better than another and that none have the right to think so.
Reply #82 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:09 PM
| Why does there have to be one, unchanging standard? If we looked to standards of the Bible, we could sell girls off into slavery and stone gay people to death. Today, both of those are totally absurd, but 2,000 years ago, that was morally okay, and you can be sure it was done. |
To say that it happened is not to say that it was God ordained any more than you could say that God ordained the killing of Jews in WWII. It happened, but not by God's hand.
You will find that God has always dealt with the issues of the day, but His standard never changed. He was the one who gave man dignity (made in the image of God) and never wanted for men to be slaves. Did Jesus talk about how a slave should respond to his master and visa versa? Yes, because He dealt with the issues of the day. Today He might talk about how a woman should deal with an abusive husband in the same manner.
...and when the "religious" people were ready to stone a woman caught in the act of adultery, it was Jesus who saved her, pointing out that the stoners were no more innocent than she in life.
He turned religion on it's head and spun it around, knowing that none of us is any better than another and that none have the right to think so.
starkers
Reply #83 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:25 PM
Reply #83 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:25 PM
My problem is not so much with religion or the lack thereof (aetheism, etc). It should be a persons universal right to believe in and practice whichever religion they choose, as it is equally the right of someone to be an aetheist if they so believe that way.
My problem is with all this 'so-called' political correctness. It has created far greater intolerance, divisions that are now chasms, and hatred between people, races, colours and creeds who at one time were able to co-exist more peacefully.
When governments and self appointed moral consciences for the community intervene to tell us what we can and cannot say, what we can and cannot do regarding our faith and religious beliefs, we as a world are in trouble. Truth is, these self proclaimed 'do-gooders' are destroying the fabric of society with their text book educations....with little or no knowledge of the real world because their heads are too far up their asses. Hitler and Stalin were both self proclaimed do-gooders, and take a look back to the devastation and havoc they wreaked upon the world.
Hitler also proclaimed himself to be a Christian and declared a holy war on the jews, saying that they were unclean and guilty of all original sin, etc, etc. Truth be known, Hitler didn't have a religious bone in his body...the real reason for persecuting the Jews was economic, in that Germany was bankrupt and owed huge war reparations, whilst the European Jewish population was wealth and had resources through being sound businessmen/women. Put simply, he wanted what was theirs, along with the resources of other counrties that Germany was lacking.....war his answer to mass unemployment and job creation. The same goes with many other wars fought in the name of religion....'the you got what we want agenda, and we ain't payin' fer it, so we're a comin ta git it' God never had anything to do with it....man just used his name to validate evil intent.
Clear and living example of that resides in Iraq! During his regime he was clearly non-religious and persecuted many of varying religious beliefs...now he's on trial for his crimes against humanity, he clutches his Kuran in court and mumbles prayers. In other words, religion as a convenience, not through faith
My problem is with all this 'so-called' political correctness. It has created far greater intolerance, divisions that are now chasms, and hatred between people, races, colours and creeds who at one time were able to co-exist more peacefully.
When governments and self appointed moral consciences for the community intervene to tell us what we can and cannot say, what we can and cannot do regarding our faith and religious beliefs, we as a world are in trouble. Truth is, these self proclaimed 'do-gooders' are destroying the fabric of society with their text book educations....with little or no knowledge of the real world because their heads are too far up their asses. Hitler and Stalin were both self proclaimed do-gooders, and take a look back to the devastation and havoc they wreaked upon the world.
Hitler also proclaimed himself to be a Christian and declared a holy war on the jews, saying that they were unclean and guilty of all original sin, etc, etc. Truth be known, Hitler didn't have a religious bone in his body...the real reason for persecuting the Jews was economic, in that Germany was bankrupt and owed huge war reparations, whilst the European Jewish population was wealth and had resources through being sound businessmen/women. Put simply, he wanted what was theirs, along with the resources of other counrties that Germany was lacking.....war his answer to mass unemployment and job creation. The same goes with many other wars fought in the name of religion....'the you got what we want agenda, and we ain't payin' fer it, so we're a comin ta git it' God never had anything to do with it....man just used his name to validate evil intent.
Clear and living example of that resides in Iraq! During his regime he was clearly non-religious and persecuted many of varying religious beliefs...now he's on trial for his crimes against humanity, he clutches his Kuran in court and mumbles prayers. In other words, religion as a convenience, not through faith
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #84 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:27 PM
Standard Operating Procedure for many in this world.
Reply #84 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:27 PM
| God never had anything to do with it....man just used his name to validate evil intent |
Standard Operating Procedure for many in this world.
_02
Reply #85 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:33 PM
Reply #85 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:33 PM
I just would like to say that you put that so well Bill and Starkers. You really hit the nail on the head.
Adamness
Reply #86 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:40 PM
Reply #86 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:40 PM
The question I thought was raised was how an athiest has morality, since they essentially answer to nobody. I said atheists answer to humanity, while people of faith answer to God, karma, or whatever. This is not to say that people of faith don't answer to humanity, but it often isn't the main motivation, if it is at all.
If God deals with an issue in a certain way, and if there is only one standard of dealing with that issue which was created by God, than how can he change how he deals with that issue?
If God deals with an issue in a certain way, and if there is only one standard of dealing with that issue which was created by God, than how can he change how he deals with that issue?
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #87 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:51 PM
Good question, but not a difficult one from the standpoint of the the Bible.
Muder is wrong. God's standard.
Lying in wrong. God's standard.
10 Commandments etc etc
It all point to our need for something. The whole point of pointing out "sin" or our weaknesses in the bible is to point out that we are in need of Him. If we are perfect, there is no need for a savior, right? But none of us is perfect so we are all in need of Him. That is the teaching. Not "I am better" or "more moral", but rather "we are all in this together and have been found lacking".
He is also the one who said "Love your neighbor as yourself". In this ageless best seller, the root of how we treat each other and how He treats us is "love". Both for social reform and for dealing with each other as well as why He chose to be involved at all. As Frank Zappa would say, that is the "cruks of the biscuit"
Reply #87 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:51 PM
| If God deals with an issue in a certain way, and if there is only one standard of dealing with that issue which was created by God, than how can he change how he deals with that issue? |
Good question, but not a difficult one from the standpoint of the the Bible.
Muder is wrong. God's standard.
Lying in wrong. God's standard.
10 Commandments etc etc
It all point to our need for something. The whole point of pointing out "sin" or our weaknesses in the bible is to point out that we are in need of Him. If we are perfect, there is no need for a savior, right? But none of us is perfect so we are all in need of Him. That is the teaching. Not "I am better" or "more moral", but rather "we are all in this together and have been found lacking".
He is also the one who said "Love your neighbor as yourself". In this ageless best seller, the root of how we treat each other and how He treats us is "love". Both for social reform and for dealing with each other as well as why He chose to be involved at all. As Frank Zappa would say, that is the "cruks of the biscuit"
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #88 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:54 PM
Reply #88 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:54 PM
I'll quit hogging this thread and go to bed. I hope I did not offend any. I would die for my belief, but also for your right to disagree. People die for their beliefs every day. The real trick is to live for them.
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #89 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:57 PM
Reply #89 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:57 PM
One more thing (Columbo movies 
), in regards to post 87. In the early years of recorded Judaio Christendom, there was a Theocracy. A government set up by God to deal with His people. That was done away with when His people wanted a king instead. God is no longer in the "legislating morality" business (according to the Bible), but is in the life changing business. Again based on love and forgiveness.
Good night all.
), in regards to post 87. In the early years of recorded Judaio Christendom, there was a Theocracy. A government set up by God to deal with His people. That was done away with when His people wanted a king instead. God is no longer in the "legislating morality" business (according to the Bible), but is in the life changing business. Again based on love and forgiveness. Good night all.
Adamness
Reply #90 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:13 PM
Reply #90 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:13 PM
I don't think I can argue with any of that. You believe it, I don't. We respect each other, and our rights to say that, but most likely, neither of us will change each others minds. Rock on though.
scorpio-logic
Reply #91 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:19 PM
Reply #91 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:19 PM
Excellent input from all sides, gentlemen (and ladies). I have to applaud Adamness, his articulation guises his true age. Luckily, this thread has not (yet) turned into a flaming contest, and I thank all those who posted. This has truly been fascinating reading. If this thread continues, I hope it does so with the same fervor and intent as has been exhibited thusly. Have a great night, to all those who've turned in. Thanks for the reading. 
xjennx
Reply #92 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:26 PM
Reply #92 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:26 PM
Everybody! Take a moment and listen to Lennon`s Imagine song, and comeback to this thread...
WOM
Reply #93 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:36 PM
Reply #93 Thursday, January 5, 2006 11:36 PM
I didn't post this to get a debate about being a Christian or not. I posted it because I thought the words of a school kid was good. I to am glad this didn't turn out to be a big bonfire roasting people.
scorpio-logic
Reply #94 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:27 AM
Reply #94 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:27 AM
It's a good post WOM. And so far, mostly intellectual debate. Religion, and teh perception thereof, always gets people going. Thanks for the post, I am really enjoying the thread. I don't mind a bit looking at things from another's point of view, and I definately enjoy putting in my own 2 and a half cents!
However, this coming from a school child can be rather disturbing. And with no where to turn, no finite rules or boundaries what happens next? There's no control. Anarchy seems to be at the very edge of consuming all. Makes me wonder how the author will turn out in the long run.
However, this coming from a school child can be rather disturbing. And with no where to turn, no finite rules or boundaries what happens next? There's no control. Anarchy seems to be at the very edge of consuming all. Makes me wonder how the author will turn out in the long run.
Jafo
Reply #95 Friday, January 6, 2006 1:05 AM
Reply #95 Friday, January 6, 2006 1:05 AM
| Luckily, this thread has not (yet) turned into a flaming contest, |
Religious-based threads are 'watched'....
XX
Reply #96 Friday, January 6, 2006 1:49 AM
Are you saying that atheists don't have feelings at all? Nope. We are still humans. We care about others other than ourselves. We simply don't believe or even have need for any deities to represent anything.
That's pretty flawed argument. I deny that earth is moving into sun at light speed. Does it mean that I HAVE to acknowledge that earth IS moving into sun at light speed? Certainly not... In shortest possible way to show your statement of logic: Deny of existence=Acknowledge of existence. It sure don't make sense. It's pretty much True=False.
Reply #96 Friday, January 6, 2006 1:49 AM
| In a godless world, why on earth would I want to do something 'good' unless it benefits myself in some way? 'Because you should do 'good' for the sake of doing good.' ...But why? Why should I care? Why should I care about anyone other than myself? |
Are you saying that atheists don't have feelings at all? Nope. We are still humans. We care about others other than ourselves. We simply don't believe or even have need for any deities to represent anything.
| I just wanted to point out that if you are an atheist then you deny there is a God correct? To deny God you have to acknowledge God exists first. |
That's pretty flawed argument. I deny that earth is moving into sun at light speed. Does it mean that I HAVE to acknowledge that earth IS moving into sun at light speed? Certainly not... In shortest possible way to show your statement of logic: Deny of existence=Acknowledge of existence. It sure don't make sense. It's pretty much True=False.
Cynder-Elluh
Reply #97 Friday, January 6, 2006 10:26 AM
Anarchy IS at the very edge, waiting to consume who it can.....
I am very concerned for the student who wrote the prayer also, makes me wonder what is going on with that person now.
I hope that prayer, the cry for peace, safety and reassuance was answered!
I really enjoyed reading all this too! So many opinions and passions, I am thankful it didn't turn into something ugly! Thank you very much!
Reply #97 Friday, January 6, 2006 10:26 AM
| However, this coming from a school child can be rather disturbing. And with no where to turn, no finite rules or boundaries what happens next? There's no control. Anarchy seems to be at the very edge of consuming all. Makes me wonder how the author will turn out in the long run. |
Anarchy IS at the very edge, waiting to consume who it can.....
I am very concerned for the student who wrote the prayer also, makes me wonder what is going on with that person now.
I hope that prayer, the cry for peace, safety and reassuance was answered!
I really enjoyed reading all this too! So many opinions and passions, I am thankful it didn't turn into something ugly! Thank you very much!
Koasati
Reply #98 Friday, January 6, 2006 11:51 AM
Reply #98 Friday, January 6, 2006 11:51 AM
| I didn't post this to get a debate about being a Christian or not. |
If you didn't know this thread would become a debate, then perhaps you should change your nick.....
WOM
Reply #99 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:13 PM
Reply #99 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:13 PM
Koasati, I didn't say I didn't think it would, I said I didn't post it get a debate about being a Christain. Note the difference.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #100 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:23 PM
Reply #100 Friday, January 6, 2006 12:23 PM
All in all I am impressed with the maturity of everyone commenting in this thread. I would have guessed it wuld be locked very fast.
That was funny.
| If you didn't know this thread would become a debate, then perhaps you should change your nick |
That was funny.
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Reply #81 Thursday, January 5, 2006 9:57 PM