A Challenge To The 'Ruder' Critics
You Know Who You Are
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 by PoSmedley | Discussion: Community
It has been posed in the form of a question in these forums.."Is skinning an art?" Many have replied, and it would seem the overwhelming response is "Yes, it is."
"There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun."
Pablo Picasso.
I think this best describes the ‘art’ of skinning. It’s not just a matter of having a command of the ‘software or program’ you choose to create with, but having a vision to begin with, and the ability to execute it, to be able to bring it to realization, to life. How long did it take for photography to be truly considered an art form by the artists who toiled in ink, paint, and other mediums?
"Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, there was a group of now-famous photographers that called themselves the "f64 Club," who prided themselves on the fact that they shot pictures at f64 to get the sharpest possible photos possible. Why was this unique? Because in those days, photography wasn't considered an art form unless photographers manipulated their photos in the darkroom to "blur them up" so they would look more like paintings. Photography, it seemed, was "too perfect" for the critical art world, so to be considered valid, your photos weren't allowed to be too sharp. The f74 club was a small group of mostly San Francisco photographers that challenged the idea and went against the grain by making incredibly sharp photographs. And, well, the rest is history."
Dan Heller- Photographer
How long did it take the critics to acknowledge photography as an art form? I would guess as soon as they realized they ‘could’ voice themselves on it- and people would listen.
Which brings me to the subject of criticism, particularly criticism in WC. I have noticed a rash of rather ‘harsh’ criticism being thrown about like rotten vegetables at a rowdydow. Something of note is that, a lot of these remarks are made by individuals who have made no contributions of their own, in the way of skins or wallpapers.
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship"
Zeuxis (400BC)
You could spend hours trying to define ‘art’ in any form or medium. Defining some other things, are a little easier.
Criticism- function: noun
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature
3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history
Meriam Webster Dictionary
I especially like the part.."usually unfavorably". If you look up 'review' and 'critique', you will find that they eventually refer back to ‘criticism’. Now , let’s try another word, as it may apply.
Constructive- function: adjective
1 : of or relating to construction or creation
2 : promoting improvement or development
The question this poses to me is this. Should comments made on ‘skins, etc’ be only that of a constructive nature? Of course, if we followed this, would something like ‘Nice work." be out of context? If we allow one, do we allow the other? (Example; This is garbage.) Then there is that whole freedom of speech thing.
It is difficult for a lot of people to take/accept criticism in any form. I feel for the ‘first- time artists’ who have chosen to put themselves’ out there’, as it were, and find harsh and sometimes hurtful criticism discouraging. As a community, I have seen many members at WC rise in defense of these ‘artists’ and it feels good to be part of such a community.
As for those that choose to continuously assault whatever work they see fit to on a whim, all I can do is offer my sincerest condolences. I can only assume it’s your inability to appreciate anything that may be different, beautiful, or just expressive that frustrates you to such lengths that you have no alternative than to unleash a swill of unconstructive, unsupportive, and unintelligent criticisms.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain- and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
To the artists that continuously brave these ‘fools’, I admire your determination and constant effort and willingness to put yourselves ‘out there’. To those who would assault these artists without having contributed…
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it’s done, they’ve seen it done everyday, but their unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan
Though I believe ‘everyone’ is ‘able’, it’s just that some are to caught up to realize it.
"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to the dark place where it leads"
Erica Jong
I challenge you to find your courage. Put yourselves on the line. And discover for yourselves the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ of being an artist. Even when my work is not found appealing to some, or just plain rejected, there is a reward. Whether it be in satisfaction of having created something that only one person likes or frustration that forces me to re-examine what I was trying to say or do, and try again.
Criticism is prejudice made plausible
HL Mencken
You don’t have to hide behind such a transparent ‘plausibility’. The ironic thing is, you might find how quickly any effort you made would be accepted, welcomed, and appreciated. You may succeed, you may fail…but at least you could say you tried. It seems to me, saying you tried is much more intelligent and noble than the harsh and rude things you have chosen to say so far.
A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything else in the world.
Edmond D Concourt
I think most artists can agree with that last quote. It doesn’t mean we like it. It’s just a fact. Like the existence of the ‘fools’ mentioned by Dale Carnegie. But we do not need to exist together in such a hostile an unconstructive way. You know who you are. I challenge you to find your own creativity. Explore it. Express it here. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t like some of the things you saw. Be a part of it.
If in the end, you can’t or won’t, then I challenge you to find a more constructive way to express you opinions. A more encouraging way to voice what you feel. You may not…will not..like everything you see…but shouldn’t your goal be to encourage the artist in the end to keep trying, in hopes that something you like will come forth?
I look forward to seeing if you have the courage and/or the class to accept my challenge.
"There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun."
Pablo Picasso.
I think this best describes the ‘art’ of skinning. It’s not just a matter of having a command of the ‘software or program’ you choose to create with, but having a vision to begin with, and the ability to execute it, to be able to bring it to realization, to life. How long did it take for photography to be truly considered an art form by the artists who toiled in ink, paint, and other mediums?
"Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, there was a group of now-famous photographers that called themselves the "f64 Club," who prided themselves on the fact that they shot pictures at f64 to get the sharpest possible photos possible. Why was this unique? Because in those days, photography wasn't considered an art form unless photographers manipulated their photos in the darkroom to "blur them up" so they would look more like paintings. Photography, it seemed, was "too perfect" for the critical art world, so to be considered valid, your photos weren't allowed to be too sharp. The f74 club was a small group of mostly San Francisco photographers that challenged the idea and went against the grain by making incredibly sharp photographs. And, well, the rest is history."
Dan Heller- Photographer
How long did it take the critics to acknowledge photography as an art form? I would guess as soon as they realized they ‘could’ voice themselves on it- and people would listen.
Which brings me to the subject of criticism, particularly criticism in WC. I have noticed a rash of rather ‘harsh’ criticism being thrown about like rotten vegetables at a rowdydow. Something of note is that, a lot of these remarks are made by individuals who have made no contributions of their own, in the way of skins or wallpapers.
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship"
Zeuxis (400BC)
You could spend hours trying to define ‘art’ in any form or medium. Defining some other things, are a little easier.
Criticism- function: noun
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature
3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history
Meriam Webster Dictionary
I especially like the part.."usually unfavorably". If you look up 'review' and 'critique', you will find that they eventually refer back to ‘criticism’. Now , let’s try another word, as it may apply.
Constructive- function: adjective
1 : of or relating to construction or creation
2 : promoting improvement or development
The question this poses to me is this. Should comments made on ‘skins, etc’ be only that of a constructive nature? Of course, if we followed this, would something like ‘Nice work." be out of context? If we allow one, do we allow the other? (Example; This is garbage.) Then there is that whole freedom of speech thing.
It is difficult for a lot of people to take/accept criticism in any form. I feel for the ‘first- time artists’ who have chosen to put themselves’ out there’, as it were, and find harsh and sometimes hurtful criticism discouraging. As a community, I have seen many members at WC rise in defense of these ‘artists’ and it feels good to be part of such a community.
As for those that choose to continuously assault whatever work they see fit to on a whim, all I can do is offer my sincerest condolences. I can only assume it’s your inability to appreciate anything that may be different, beautiful, or just expressive that frustrates you to such lengths that you have no alternative than to unleash a swill of unconstructive, unsupportive, and unintelligent criticisms.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain- and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
To the artists that continuously brave these ‘fools’, I admire your determination and constant effort and willingness to put yourselves ‘out there’. To those who would assault these artists without having contributed…
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it’s done, they’ve seen it done everyday, but their unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan
Though I believe ‘everyone’ is ‘able’, it’s just that some are to caught up to realize it.
"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to the dark place where it leads"
Erica Jong
I challenge you to find your courage. Put yourselves on the line. And discover for yourselves the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ of being an artist. Even when my work is not found appealing to some, or just plain rejected, there is a reward. Whether it be in satisfaction of having created something that only one person likes or frustration that forces me to re-examine what I was trying to say or do, and try again.
Criticism is prejudice made plausible
HL Mencken
You don’t have to hide behind such a transparent ‘plausibility’. The ironic thing is, you might find how quickly any effort you made would be accepted, welcomed, and appreciated. You may succeed, you may fail…but at least you could say you tried. It seems to me, saying you tried is much more intelligent and noble than the harsh and rude things you have chosen to say so far.
A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything else in the world.
Edmond D Concourt
I think most artists can agree with that last quote. It doesn’t mean we like it. It’s just a fact. Like the existence of the ‘fools’ mentioned by Dale Carnegie. But we do not need to exist together in such a hostile an unconstructive way. You know who you are. I challenge you to find your own creativity. Explore it. Express it here. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t like some of the things you saw. Be a part of it.
If in the end, you can’t or won’t, then I challenge you to find a more constructive way to express you opinions. A more encouraging way to voice what you feel. You may not…will not..like everything you see…but shouldn’t your goal be to encourage the artist in the end to keep trying, in hopes that something you like will come forth?
I look forward to seeing if you have the courage and/or the class to accept my challenge.
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starkers
Reply #62 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:35 AM
I think that's the whole gist of it, why should anyone be confronted with hostility, rudeness and arrogance after spending countless hours creating something, then freely sharing it with the community in good faith. If the older generation of skinners eventually tired of it, then it's safe to say that the next generation will also come feel similarly and want to quit/move on....
It's not the desirable outcome for anyone, so yeah, I'm all in agreement that rude, derogatory remarks be removed post haste, if not by an admin, necesaarily, then by the artist whose comment section has been defiled. In addition, repeat offenders should face exile....ie, a warning then 3 stikes and you're out.
Another thread deals with multiple accounts....and in the same vein, that it's not acceptable, reinventing oneself to regain entry after banishment has to be a no-no also. I'm not too sure how that could be policed/enforced, but if the technology was there for WC to recognise the signature of an exiles' computer/s, then perhaps that's a step in the right direction.
I suppose then an exile could use another, previously unidentified PC, but once you've encountered a skunk amongst your stock, you tend to recognise him next time around and shut up shop to keep it out.
Hopefully a satisfactory solution can be found to prevent our newer generation skinners wanting to quit, whilst attracting back some of the older generation skinners at the same time....to complete the stable and fill all the stalls, hey.
Reply #62 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:35 AM
| My point is, what happens when the next generation gets tired of the idiots who seem to get off on being stupid and rude. Do they move on, or tough it out? Personnally, I don't think they should have to put up with it for something that they put so much time, effort and heart into and then give away. |
I think that's the whole gist of it, why should anyone be confronted with hostility, rudeness and arrogance after spending countless hours creating something, then freely sharing it with the community in good faith. If the older generation of skinners eventually tired of it, then it's safe to say that the next generation will also come feel similarly and want to quit/move on....
It's not the desirable outcome for anyone, so yeah, I'm all in agreement that rude, derogatory remarks be removed post haste, if not by an admin, necesaarily, then by the artist whose comment section has been defiled. In addition, repeat offenders should face exile....ie, a warning then 3 stikes and you're out.
Another thread deals with multiple accounts....and in the same vein, that it's not acceptable, reinventing oneself to regain entry after banishment has to be a no-no also. I'm not too sure how that could be policed/enforced, but if the technology was there for WC to recognise the signature of an exiles' computer/s, then perhaps that's a step in the right direction.
I suppose then an exile could use another, previously unidentified PC, but once you've encountered a skunk amongst your stock, you tend to recognise him next time around and shut up shop to keep it out.
Hopefully a satisfactory solution can be found to prevent our newer generation skinners wanting to quit, whilst attracting back some of the older generation skinners at the same time....to complete the stable and fill all the stalls, hey.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #63 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:51 AM
Reply #63 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:51 AM
The only way and yes THE ONLY WAY to deal with people looking to get a rise out of you is to ignore them.
Think about it, later that night when noone has responded to their childish instigative words, they feel like a moron. It won't take but a couple of days for them to realize how much of a loser they are. It is too easy to get people riled up online. Way too easy. As hard as it is to do, do not give them a second of your time. Later that night you will be very pleased with yourself for not getting drawn into a one sided argument. Yes, 1 sided because the more you respond to the person, the happier you make them. You might think they are riled up as well, but they are not. They are happy as can be making you angry.
Think about it, later that night when noone has responded to their childish instigative words, they feel like a moron. It won't take but a couple of days for them to realize how much of a loser they are. It is too easy to get people riled up online. Way too easy. As hard as it is to do, do not give them a second of your time. Later that night you will be very pleased with yourself for not getting drawn into a one sided argument. Yes, 1 sided because the more you respond to the person, the happier you make them. You might think they are riled up as well, but they are not. They are happy as can be making you angry.
starkers
Reply #64 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:19 AM
So true, NT...refusing to acknowledge/bite is the best way, so that eventually a moron is 'moreoff' the boards. Trouble is, some morons are so moronic that being a 'loser' is a class or two above them....that's when exiling becomes necessary/appropriate to quell their insatiable desire to incite trouble, get a bite.
When somebody derives pleasure from making others miserable, it's time to give them their marching orders.
Reply #64 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:19 AM
| The only way and yes THE ONLY WAY to deal with people looking to get a rise out of you is to ignore them. Think about it, later that night when noone has responded to their childish instigative words, they feel like a moron. It won't take but a couple of days for them to realize how much of a loser they are. |
So true, NT...refusing to acknowledge/bite is the best way, so that eventually a moron is 'moreoff' the boards. Trouble is, some morons are so moronic that being a 'loser' is a class or two above them....that's when exiling becomes necessary/appropriate to quell their insatiable desire to incite trouble, get a bite.
When somebody derives pleasure from making others miserable, it's time to give them their marching orders.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #65 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:23 AM
Yup, unfortunatley as mortals and not Super Wizops we don't have the power to exile them. As common folk, we can only ignore and tattle. I think the tune goes...
If I had a rocket launcher, some son of a bitch would die!
Reply #65 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:23 AM
| that's when exiling becomes necessary/appropriate to quell their insatiable desire to incite trouble, get a bite. |
Yup, unfortunatley as mortals and not Super Wizops we don't have the power to exile them. As common folk, we can only ignore and tattle. I think the tune goes...
If I had a rocket launcher, some son of a bitch would die!
chermany4ever
Reply #66 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:46 PM
Reply #66 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:46 PM
Well, reading this, and modestly as an artist (musician), I feel driven to say that art is art.
When it comes to art, you can't say that something is wrong, or bad stuff, or crap.
Art is expression. You can't look at a piece of art and say "that's crap".
You could say "I like it" or "I hate it"... and that's even too much.
Unfortunately, sometimes we are more too selfish, an we think we can judge (as if the whole humanity should agree with us). I think it happens (maybe) because we need to prove we are successful or to pretend we are exceptional. It's just an inferiority feeling or jealousy. That's something we all feel sometime.
The most greatest and successful artists were and are criticized due to the diversity of tastes.
The thing is when one artist obtains a lot of attention. Then, fashion appears, and everybody seems to think that what that artist did is what all the artists should do or aim at.
That's a lie. We need to know that our works are genuine only if we are hearing ourselves. That makes us winners, without worrying about if we are accepted or congratulated. We need to enjoy that. Enjoying what we do is what makes us successful.
Besides that, too many good artist were recognized much more late than when they expected. So, we need to feel free of critics. Feel free to do what we feel we must do.
And guess what... that's just what I think.
Thanks to all the artist who make this site as awesome as it is, and for making our lives richer.
When it comes to art, you can't say that something is wrong, or bad stuff, or crap.
Art is expression. You can't look at a piece of art and say "that's crap".
You could say "I like it" or "I hate it"... and that's even too much.
Unfortunately, sometimes we are more too selfish, an we think we can judge (as if the whole humanity should agree with us). I think it happens (maybe) because we need to prove we are successful or to pretend we are exceptional. It's just an inferiority feeling or jealousy. That's something we all feel sometime.
The most greatest and successful artists were and are criticized due to the diversity of tastes.
The thing is when one artist obtains a lot of attention. Then, fashion appears, and everybody seems to think that what that artist did is what all the artists should do or aim at.
That's a lie. We need to know that our works are genuine only if we are hearing ourselves. That makes us winners, without worrying about if we are accepted or congratulated. We need to enjoy that. Enjoying what we do is what makes us successful.
Besides that, too many good artist were recognized much more late than when they expected. So, we need to feel free of critics. Feel free to do what we feel we must do.
And guess what... that's just what I think.
Thanks to all the artist who make this site as awesome as it is, and for making our lives richer.
Jafo
Reply #67 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:35 PM
Reply #67 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:35 PM
| As common folk, we can only ignore and tattle. |
Or pass the info/issue on to those who CAN deal....
-scion-
Reply #68 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:58 PM
Reply #68 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:58 PM
from a skinner's standpoint i will say that the community as a whole has become so much pickier than they have in the past. i'm not sure what the reason for this is. perhaps it has to do with what they feel is a "lack of quality product" coming out going back to the "boredom level" comment. it's almost as if they don't find anything they like, some of the ruder users will take it out on the artists. it's becoming such a chore to make something nowadays that will be accepted as a whole. and when you see some of the comments being left on other submissions it makes you question whether or not you should even continue skinning. i hate to say it, but you think "why should i go through all of this for these ungrateful people?". at this point skinning goes from "creating what you like and sharing it with the world" to "this is now my second job". anything you do for fun that becomes a job is no longer fun. most of the skinners on this site do not work for stardock, but i swear that alot of users assume that we do. quality product is not our "job" but unfortunately WC depends on us for it. as for the rude critics, go make something better than what you just slammed, we dare you.
Jafo
Reply #69 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:16 PM
Reply #69 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:16 PM
| from a skinner's standpoint i will say that the community as a whole has become so much pickier than they have in the past. |
I'm not sure that's quite true. Back in the dawn of [skinning] time there were those who belittled and opined over the skinners' works. I'm thinking pre-Wincustomize.com ...back when skinz.org, Customize.org and Deskmod.com were just about all there was out there.
Perhaps what we see now is less tolerance of fatuous opinion by those who have 'been there, done that' already in ages past and are simply getting tired of the gift-horse attitudes of some.
When some of the 'elder skinners' are contemplating chucking it all in because this rubbishing is getting older than Adam it's down to the Admins on all the sites to suggest that 'enough is enough' and to 'sit on' the more uncomplimentary souls out there.
It doesn't have to end up as a Mutual Appreciation Society....just a mature, understanding one...
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #70 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:32 PM
I like that.
Reply #70 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:32 PM
| It doesn't have to end up as a Mutual Appreciation Society....just a mature, understanding one |
I like that.
starkers
Reply #71 Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:16 AM
Scion....I would just like to say that the majority is grateful and appreciative of the contributions skinners post here at WC. However, the "why should I go through all of this" should be more about what you enjoy doing for yourself....first and foremost.
If that happens to be the pleasure of creating skins for your PC, it's more of a passion than a second job, and if you're generous enough to share them with the community, you're 10 foot tall, as compared to the miniscule pissant critic whose sole purpose in life is to reduce everyone to their own inadequate/inferior level.
The important thing to remember here is that a critic is not necessarily a person of ability or talent, except for having an opinion, perhaps.....an opinion that's shared ONLY with their alter-ego.
Can't attribute this saying to anyone in particular,but.....'opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one, but at the end of the day, the only important one to you is your own.' How true that is!
If Arnold Swarzenegger had listened to the critics who said he couldn't act and just quit...not only would he not have made some great movies, he'd not be Governor of California today. Okay, so his acting wasn't the greatest to begin with, but what he lacked in talent, he made up for with a huge on-screen presence and a great deal of enthusiasm, improving each and every step of the way.
Same applies here....let the pissant critics get you down, and you'll not realise your full potential. Unfortunately, there's a few 'skinning illiterate' cretins here who 'think' it's their duty to proffer unqualified judgements, but they are in the minority and are insignificant in the big picture.....so a big hey to all skinners, don't let 'em get under your skin.
Reply #71 Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:16 AM
| it's becoming such a chore to make something nowadays that will be accepted as a whole. and when you see some of the comments being left on other submissions it makes you question whether or not you should even continue skinning. i hate to say it, but you think "why should i go through all of this for these ungrateful people?". at this point skinning goes from "creating what you like and sharing it with the world" to "this is now my second job". anything you do for fun that becomes a job is no longer fun. |
Scion....I would just like to say that the majority is grateful and appreciative of the contributions skinners post here at WC. However, the "why should I go through all of this" should be more about what you enjoy doing for yourself....first and foremost.
If that happens to be the pleasure of creating skins for your PC, it's more of a passion than a second job, and if you're generous enough to share them with the community, you're 10 foot tall, as compared to the miniscule pissant critic whose sole purpose in life is to reduce everyone to their own inadequate/inferior level.
The important thing to remember here is that a critic is not necessarily a person of ability or talent, except for having an opinion, perhaps.....an opinion that's shared ONLY with their alter-ego.
Can't attribute this saying to anyone in particular,but.....'opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one, but at the end of the day, the only important one to you is your own.' How true that is!
If Arnold Swarzenegger had listened to the critics who said he couldn't act and just quit...not only would he not have made some great movies, he'd not be Governor of California today. Okay, so his acting wasn't the greatest to begin with, but what he lacked in talent, he made up for with a huge on-screen presence and a great deal of enthusiasm, improving each and every step of the way.
Same applies here....let the pissant critics get you down, and you'll not realise your full potential. Unfortunately, there's a few 'skinning illiterate' cretins here who 'think' it's their duty to proffer unqualified judgements, but they are in the minority and are insignificant in the big picture.....so a big hey to all skinners, don't let 'em get under your skin.
William-Quist
Reply #72 Friday, February 17, 2006 12:58 PM
The reason is choice. With thousands of skins out there, we have choice. We decide what we like and don't like. It's as simple as that.
Art is art. Would you tell Monet that you didn't like the pink color use in his Waterlillies? Or that the Mona Lisa needed eyebrows? No.
Is what we do art? That's a very fine line that's tough to balance. With that being said, do people really, REALLY want creative criticism. It's the creator's (artist's?) vision. It's how they want it to look. Do we really have the right to make a criticism on their art?
In writing this, I'm questioning my own comments I've made on various submissions. Do I really want them to change just to conform to what I think is good, or anyone else for that matter? I guess the answer is no. They are releasing their creativity. I am a big supporter of this and believe that creativity leaks out into other parts of our lives.
This also leads me to rethink the rating method IF skinning truly is an art. Aspiring skinners see these ratings of what people like. Does this inspire them to expand their creativity, or make them question their ability?
Personally, seeing other peoples works gives me ideas, and tips, and tricks, and new techniques. I take these and incorporate them into my new "art." In all honesty, and I truly mean this, I like to read the comments on my submissions. I am creating items in my vision. I don't let comments rule how I design. I always design what I feel. I believe our other contributors should do the same.
I am my own worst critic.
Reply #72 Friday, February 17, 2006 12:58 PM
| from a skinner's standpoint i will say that the community as a whole has become so much pickier than they have in the past. |
The reason is choice. With thousands of skins out there, we have choice. We decide what we like and don't like. It's as simple as that.
Art is art. Would you tell Monet that you didn't like the pink color use in his Waterlillies? Or that the Mona Lisa needed eyebrows? No.
Is what we do art? That's a very fine line that's tough to balance. With that being said, do people really, REALLY want creative criticism. It's the creator's (artist's?) vision. It's how they want it to look. Do we really have the right to make a criticism on their art?
In writing this, I'm questioning my own comments I've made on various submissions. Do I really want them to change just to conform to what I think is good, or anyone else for that matter? I guess the answer is no. They are releasing their creativity. I am a big supporter of this and believe that creativity leaks out into other parts of our lives.
This also leads me to rethink the rating method IF skinning truly is an art. Aspiring skinners see these ratings of what people like. Does this inspire them to expand their creativity, or make them question their ability?
Personally, seeing other peoples works gives me ideas, and tips, and tricks, and new techniques. I take these and incorporate them into my new "art." In all honesty, and I truly mean this, I like to read the comments on my submissions. I am creating items in my vision. I don't let comments rule how I design. I always design what I feel. I believe our other contributors should do the same.
I am my own worst critic.
duelist069
Reply #73 Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:45 AM
Reply #73 Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:45 AM
My two cents.
Most everyone is their own worst critic.
Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder.
Take critics comments with a grain of salt, especially if they have never contributed any works.
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all mostly stink.
It's better to shoot for the stars and miss, than to aim at a pile of s**t and hit!
Though I have not ever contributed to the site, other than post here and there, I still continue to attempt to create, I also know that it takes time and perseverance to create. I think that anyone who has created anything is just one step ahead of the critics, just by sharing with the rest of the world.
Most everyone is their own worst critic.
Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder.
Take critics comments with a grain of salt, especially if they have never contributed any works.
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and they all mostly stink.
It's better to shoot for the stars and miss, than to aim at a pile of s**t and hit!
Though I have not ever contributed to the site, other than post here and there, I still continue to attempt to create, I also know that it takes time and perseverance to create. I think that anyone who has created anything is just one step ahead of the critics, just by sharing with the rest of the world.
-scion-
Reply #74 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:46 PM
Reply #74 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:46 PM
i really do think ratings are vital to the site. they provide a good way for users to search for quality work. but i think the physical act of rating is flawed...simply becaue it requires no thought. one click and you're done. you can take a quick look at a screenshot...decide "this sucks" or "this is great" and rate it accordingly far too easily. that's really all it requires...one click. now if you were to break the rating up into catagories such as:
graphical quality 1-5
usablility 1-5
concept 1-5
design 1-5
stability 1-5
bugginess 1-5
level of skin completion (everything skinned) 1-5
features included (wallpaper etc...) 1-5
by breaking up the rating and creating a blended score it would produce a more fair rating...and provide the author with some valuable feedback other than simple comments such as "i don't like this" or "this is great". an artist could actually pinpoint areas of improvement based on the rating. the rating would also require thought and eliminate some of the "window shopping ratings" or "drive bys" simply by making it more difficult to rate something. and by god, they may actually need to download your work first.
graphical quality 1-5
usablility 1-5
concept 1-5
design 1-5
stability 1-5
bugginess 1-5
level of skin completion (everything skinned) 1-5
features included (wallpaper etc...) 1-5
by breaking up the rating and creating a blended score it would produce a more fair rating...and provide the author with some valuable feedback other than simple comments such as "i don't like this" or "this is great". an artist could actually pinpoint areas of improvement based on the rating. the rating would also require thought and eliminate some of the "window shopping ratings" or "drive bys" simply by making it more difficult to rate something. and by god, they may actually need to download your work first.
-scion-
Reply #75 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:57 PM
Reply #75 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:57 PM
another random thought...
what about tying the comments in with the ratings? rather than leave one large in general comment...have commments for each catagory as to why they rated it that way.
what about tying the comments in with the ratings? rather than leave one large in general comment...have commments for each catagory as to why they rated it that way.
tameddragon
Reply #76 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:26 AM
Sounds of a good idea to me.
Sadly, there seem to be some netcrawlers out there who's only reason for living is to find/start an argument. I doubt if they've actually the mental capacity to know what a moron is, much less realising themselves as such. Still, feeding them to "iggy" is the one thing they can't stand. Pay them no mind and they'll usually go off looking for their jollys elsewhere.
Hmmmm... thinking about it, maybe a MUTE button or some similar means of hiding a flamer's comments from a contributor's immediate view? Just an idea...
Reply #76 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:26 AM
| by breaking up the rating and creating a blended score |
Sounds of a good idea to me.
| You might think they are riled up as well, but they are not. They are happy as can be making you angry. |
Sadly, there seem to be some netcrawlers out there who's only reason for living is to find/start an argument. I doubt if they've actually the mental capacity to know what a moron is, much less realising themselves as such. Still, feeding them to "iggy" is the one thing they can't stand. Pay them no mind and they'll usually go off looking for their jollys elsewhere.
Hmmmm... thinking about it, maybe a MUTE button or some similar means of hiding a flamer's comments from a contributor's immediate view? Just an idea...
BoXXi
Reply #77 Sunday, April 30, 2006 6:32 AM
Reply #77 Sunday, April 30, 2006 6:32 AM
I just want a button marked "No comments required" that doesn't allow any comments, good or bad. I've had all the comments I could ever want, I know how the majority of people feel about my skins and art, so I would just like to thwart the band of brothers that just delight in thinking they are better than everyone else, when in fact, they aren't really.
Is that too much to ask?
I have 18 WindowBlinds skins here, some fairly plain, some totally outrageous. But they are staying here until that feature is introduced, which will be never, so.....................
Is that too much to ask?
I have 18 WindowBlinds skins here, some fairly plain, some totally outrageous. But they are staying here until that feature is introduced, which will be never, so.....................
PoSmedley
Reply #78 Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:11 PM
A feature that have at DA. However, wouldn't you miss the 'good comments'? You'd be shutting out the noobies to the site that may want to tell you how much they like this or that.
Reply #78 Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:11 PM
| "No comments required" |
A feature that have at DA. However, wouldn't you miss the 'good comments'? You'd be shutting out the noobies to the site that may want to tell you how much they like this or that.
CapnChaos
Reply #79 Tuesday, May 2, 2006 1:07 AM
Reply #79 Tuesday, May 2, 2006 1:07 AM
First, let me say that I have not created any skins... I'm a different kind of artist (software). This is a fascinating thread because it represents the best and worst in people. The challenge comes because as creators of art each one of you have different expectations on the response of the public to your art. Some want to have a 'perfect' skin. Others want to express their creativity and if someone gets a buzz off of it, fine. ie. BoXXi.
I would like to see a system like scion has proposed. As a "pure" user of WB, OD, and WinCustomize (as opposed to an artistic contributor), I feel unqualified to critique a skin. However, I can say where I had problems adapting it to my environment. I love some of the incredible graphics on skins that just won't work for me. I need a way to say "This is awesome! but the xyz blows chunks every time I try to use it." Not everthing is to my taste, but I respect the work that was necessary to achieve the skin. Having the posting author option to disable the feedback would allow for those who create for themselves. In my book thats ok too.
I haven't been active enough on the forums to witness some of the stuff referred to here, but have dealt with it in other places. The best system I have seen is one that the moderator gives "Blackball" points to a member when their actions are out of line. If the member reaches a threshold, they are ejected. The rules are emailed to the offending member for each offense, with a warning that basically says "You lose your access if you continue this."
I would like to see a system like scion has proposed. As a "pure" user of WB, OD, and WinCustomize (as opposed to an artistic contributor), I feel unqualified to critique a skin. However, I can say where I had problems adapting it to my environment. I love some of the incredible graphics on skins that just won't work for me. I need a way to say "This is awesome! but the xyz blows chunks every time I try to use it." Not everthing is to my taste, but I respect the work that was necessary to achieve the skin. Having the posting author option to disable the feedback would allow for those who create for themselves. In my book thats ok too.
I haven't been active enough on the forums to witness some of the stuff referred to here, but have dealt with it in other places. The best system I have seen is one that the moderator gives "Blackball" points to a member when their actions are out of line. If the member reaches a threshold, they are ejected. The rules are emailed to the offending member for each offense, with a warning that basically says "You lose your access if you continue this."
seldomseen
Reply #80 Saturday, May 6, 2006 9:14 AM
I just found out!
Had a "trace this event" from my McAfee, checked it out, it was from some place in Argentina, on the southern coast, actually named Moron!!
Reply #80 Saturday, May 6, 2006 9:14 AM
| I doubt if they've actually the mental capacity to know what a moron is |
I just found out!
Had a "trace this event" from my McAfee, checked it out, it was from some place in Argentina, on the southern coast, actually named Moron!!
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Reply #61 Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:26 AM