A Challenge To The 'Ruder' Critics
You Know Who You Are
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 by PoSmedley | Discussion: Community
It has been posed in the form of a question in these forums.."Is skinning an art?" Many have replied, and it would seem the overwhelming response is "Yes, it is."
"There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun."
Pablo Picasso.
I think this best describes the ‘art’ of skinning. It’s not just a matter of having a command of the ‘software or program’ you choose to create with, but having a vision to begin with, and the ability to execute it, to be able to bring it to realization, to life. How long did it take for photography to be truly considered an art form by the artists who toiled in ink, paint, and other mediums?
"Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, there was a group of now-famous photographers that called themselves the "f64 Club," who prided themselves on the fact that they shot pictures at f64 to get the sharpest possible photos possible. Why was this unique? Because in those days, photography wasn't considered an art form unless photographers manipulated their photos in the darkroom to "blur them up" so they would look more like paintings. Photography, it seemed, was "too perfect" for the critical art world, so to be considered valid, your photos weren't allowed to be too sharp. The f74 club was a small group of mostly San Francisco photographers that challenged the idea and went against the grain by making incredibly sharp photographs. And, well, the rest is history."
Dan Heller- Photographer
How long did it take the critics to acknowledge photography as an art form? I would guess as soon as they realized they ‘could’ voice themselves on it- and people would listen.
Which brings me to the subject of criticism, particularly criticism in WC. I have noticed a rash of rather ‘harsh’ criticism being thrown about like rotten vegetables at a rowdydow. Something of note is that, a lot of these remarks are made by individuals who have made no contributions of their own, in the way of skins or wallpapers.
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship"
Zeuxis (400BC)
You could spend hours trying to define ‘art’ in any form or medium. Defining some other things, are a little easier.
Criticism- function: noun
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature
3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history
Meriam Webster Dictionary
I especially like the part.."usually unfavorably". If you look up 'review' and 'critique', you will find that they eventually refer back to ‘criticism’. Now , let’s try another word, as it may apply.
Constructive- function: adjective
1 : of or relating to construction or creation
2 : promoting improvement or development
The question this poses to me is this. Should comments made on ‘skins, etc’ be only that of a constructive nature? Of course, if we followed this, would something like ‘Nice work." be out of context? If we allow one, do we allow the other? (Example; This is garbage.) Then there is that whole freedom of speech thing.
It is difficult for a lot of people to take/accept criticism in any form. I feel for the ‘first- time artists’ who have chosen to put themselves’ out there’, as it were, and find harsh and sometimes hurtful criticism discouraging. As a community, I have seen many members at WC rise in defense of these ‘artists’ and it feels good to be part of such a community.
As for those that choose to continuously assault whatever work they see fit to on a whim, all I can do is offer my sincerest condolences. I can only assume it’s your inability to appreciate anything that may be different, beautiful, or just expressive that frustrates you to such lengths that you have no alternative than to unleash a swill of unconstructive, unsupportive, and unintelligent criticisms.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain- and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
To the artists that continuously brave these ‘fools’, I admire your determination and constant effort and willingness to put yourselves ‘out there’. To those who would assault these artists without having contributed…
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it’s done, they’ve seen it done everyday, but their unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan
Though I believe ‘everyone’ is ‘able’, it’s just that some are to caught up to realize it.
"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to the dark place where it leads"
Erica Jong
I challenge you to find your courage. Put yourselves on the line. And discover for yourselves the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ of being an artist. Even when my work is not found appealing to some, or just plain rejected, there is a reward. Whether it be in satisfaction of having created something that only one person likes or frustration that forces me to re-examine what I was trying to say or do, and try again.
Criticism is prejudice made plausible
HL Mencken
You don’t have to hide behind such a transparent ‘plausibility’. The ironic thing is, you might find how quickly any effort you made would be accepted, welcomed, and appreciated. You may succeed, you may fail…but at least you could say you tried. It seems to me, saying you tried is much more intelligent and noble than the harsh and rude things you have chosen to say so far.
A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything else in the world.
Edmond D Concourt
I think most artists can agree with that last quote. It doesn’t mean we like it. It’s just a fact. Like the existence of the ‘fools’ mentioned by Dale Carnegie. But we do not need to exist together in such a hostile an unconstructive way. You know who you are. I challenge you to find your own creativity. Explore it. Express it here. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t like some of the things you saw. Be a part of it.
If in the end, you can’t or won’t, then I challenge you to find a more constructive way to express you opinions. A more encouraging way to voice what you feel. You may not…will not..like everything you see…but shouldn’t your goal be to encourage the artist in the end to keep trying, in hopes that something you like will come forth?
I look forward to seeing if you have the courage and/or the class to accept my challenge.
"There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun."
Pablo Picasso.
I think this best describes the ‘art’ of skinning. It’s not just a matter of having a command of the ‘software or program’ you choose to create with, but having a vision to begin with, and the ability to execute it, to be able to bring it to realization, to life. How long did it take for photography to be truly considered an art form by the artists who toiled in ink, paint, and other mediums?
"Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, there was a group of now-famous photographers that called themselves the "f64 Club," who prided themselves on the fact that they shot pictures at f64 to get the sharpest possible photos possible. Why was this unique? Because in those days, photography wasn't considered an art form unless photographers manipulated their photos in the darkroom to "blur them up" so they would look more like paintings. Photography, it seemed, was "too perfect" for the critical art world, so to be considered valid, your photos weren't allowed to be too sharp. The f74 club was a small group of mostly San Francisco photographers that challenged the idea and went against the grain by making incredibly sharp photographs. And, well, the rest is history."
Dan Heller- Photographer
How long did it take the critics to acknowledge photography as an art form? I would guess as soon as they realized they ‘could’ voice themselves on it- and people would listen.
Which brings me to the subject of criticism, particularly criticism in WC. I have noticed a rash of rather ‘harsh’ criticism being thrown about like rotten vegetables at a rowdydow. Something of note is that, a lot of these remarks are made by individuals who have made no contributions of their own, in the way of skins or wallpapers.
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship"
Zeuxis (400BC)
You could spend hours trying to define ‘art’ in any form or medium. Defining some other things, are a little easier.
Criticism- function: noun
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature
3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history
Meriam Webster Dictionary
I especially like the part.."usually unfavorably". If you look up 'review' and 'critique', you will find that they eventually refer back to ‘criticism’. Now , let’s try another word, as it may apply.
Constructive- function: adjective
1 : of or relating to construction or creation
2 : promoting improvement or development
The question this poses to me is this. Should comments made on ‘skins, etc’ be only that of a constructive nature? Of course, if we followed this, would something like ‘Nice work." be out of context? If we allow one, do we allow the other? (Example; This is garbage.) Then there is that whole freedom of speech thing.
It is difficult for a lot of people to take/accept criticism in any form. I feel for the ‘first- time artists’ who have chosen to put themselves’ out there’, as it were, and find harsh and sometimes hurtful criticism discouraging. As a community, I have seen many members at WC rise in defense of these ‘artists’ and it feels good to be part of such a community.
As for those that choose to continuously assault whatever work they see fit to on a whim, all I can do is offer my sincerest condolences. I can only assume it’s your inability to appreciate anything that may be different, beautiful, or just expressive that frustrates you to such lengths that you have no alternative than to unleash a swill of unconstructive, unsupportive, and unintelligent criticisms.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain- and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
To the artists that continuously brave these ‘fools’, I admire your determination and constant effort and willingness to put yourselves ‘out there’. To those who would assault these artists without having contributed…
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it’s done, they’ve seen it done everyday, but their unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan
Though I believe ‘everyone’ is ‘able’, it’s just that some are to caught up to realize it.
"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to the dark place where it leads"
Erica Jong
I challenge you to find your courage. Put yourselves on the line. And discover for yourselves the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ of being an artist. Even when my work is not found appealing to some, or just plain rejected, there is a reward. Whether it be in satisfaction of having created something that only one person likes or frustration that forces me to re-examine what I was trying to say or do, and try again.
Criticism is prejudice made plausible
HL Mencken
You don’t have to hide behind such a transparent ‘plausibility’. The ironic thing is, you might find how quickly any effort you made would be accepted, welcomed, and appreciated. You may succeed, you may fail…but at least you could say you tried. It seems to me, saying you tried is much more intelligent and noble than the harsh and rude things you have chosen to say so far.
A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything else in the world.
Edmond D Concourt
I think most artists can agree with that last quote. It doesn’t mean we like it. It’s just a fact. Like the existence of the ‘fools’ mentioned by Dale Carnegie. But we do not need to exist together in such a hostile an unconstructive way. You know who you are. I challenge you to find your own creativity. Explore it. Express it here. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t like some of the things you saw. Be a part of it.
If in the end, you can’t or won’t, then I challenge you to find a more constructive way to express you opinions. A more encouraging way to voice what you feel. You may not…will not..like everything you see…but shouldn’t your goal be to encourage the artist in the end to keep trying, in hopes that something you like will come forth?
I look forward to seeing if you have the courage and/or the class to accept my challenge.
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aimzzz
Reply #2 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:42 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:42 PM
Po', your essay too is art-- a vision, crafted with excellence and well expressed.
Oh, and right on!
Oh, and right on!
PoSmedley
Reply #5 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:17 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:17 PM
Thanks NT, bichur, aimzz, and teddybearcholla. 
BoddhiC
Reply #7 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:13 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:13 PM
Very well said. I have been reading coments at wincustomize for years and I too have noticed a definate increase in just simply rude and negative comments of late. There have even been a couple of flame wars in the comments sections - something that I don't recall having seen in the past. I hope your excellent post gets some people to rethink their attitude. Any skin will have some people who don't like it. If one want's to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism as to why and how the artist might make improvements if they choose, I see no problem with that. But, to simply be negative does no one any good and can definately be harmful not only to the artist being criticized, but to the commentor. What goes around comes around...
PoSmedley
Reply #10 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:20 PM
I have found myself heatedly and regrettably involved in those flame wars, which is I why I decided to write this. I like this site too much and thought I could do better than lowering myself to a level I don't care to be at. Hopefully, the right people will read this. Sorry to keep bumping it.
Reply #10 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:20 PM
| There have even been a couple of flame wars in the comments sections |
I have found myself heatedly and regrettably involved in those flame wars, which is I why I decided to write this. I like this site too much and thought I could do better than lowering myself to a level I don't care to be at. Hopefully, the right people will read this. Sorry to keep bumping it.
MountainDragon
Reply #11 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:21 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:21 PM
Very well written and thoughtful post. Hopefully those to whom it was addressed will read and be moved to some kind of positive response. Thanks for sharing! 
Reppiks
Reply #12 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:01 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:01 PM
Well said and well timed! Now, if we could only make this "required reading" before going to the "comments" section of any skin category! Hats off to you, Po! 
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #13 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:52 PM
Reply #13 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:52 PM
Well said! Well said!
There will be a very small percentage of the nay sayers that read your words of wisdom and challenge themselves. The rest of the monkeys will choose to remain monkeys and in time will either grow up or find a different outlet for their bitterness or maybe just "keep on keepin on". But what you might find, is that those who do give a rip will find your words touch their soul and the effort they put forth will be sincere. I believe that if even one monkey starts to walk upright, your words will have made a rich impact on someone's life ...and that is what makes this life worth living.
Thank you for taking the time to write this and for sharing it with us.
There will be a very small percentage of the nay sayers that read your words of wisdom and challenge themselves. The rest of the monkeys will choose to remain monkeys and in time will either grow up or find a different outlet for their bitterness or maybe just "keep on keepin on". But what you might find, is that those who do give a rip will find your words touch their soul and the effort they put forth will be sincere. I believe that if even one monkey starts to walk upright, your words will have made a rich impact on someone's life ...and that is what makes this life worth living.
Thank you for taking the time to write this and for sharing it with us.
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #14 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:08 PM
Reply #14 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:08 PM
...and if I may;
"He who throws dirt always loses ground"
-anonymous
"Here we write well when we expose frauds or hypocrites. We are great at counting warts and blemishes and weighing feet of clay. In expressing love, we belong among the undeveloped countries.
-Saul Bellow
"He who throws dirt always loses ground"
-anonymous
"Here we write well when we expose frauds or hypocrites. We are great at counting warts and blemishes and weighing feet of clay. In expressing love, we belong among the undeveloped countries.
-Saul Bellow
NightTrainthedark
Reply #15 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:33 PM
Reply #15 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:33 PM
In the interest of conversation only ( For the record,I agree with the post and think it is a damn good one 
).
Where does one draw the line? In a perfect world, you don't!
The problem is you become more and more sensitive to how, why, when, comments are said. First you are sensitive to cursing. Next, you start to break down the curse words into what is acceptable and what is not. A task that is impossible to do considering everyones opinion. As things progress you become more and more sensitive to the point that you have nowhere else to turn. Finally you are saying, no negative comments whatsoever are to be allowed. It is no different than the argument about Diversity being the downfall of society.
Eventually you have to just let people be people. Policing social habits won't do anyone any good...EVER!. We have alot more to gain by listening to everyones opinion than suppressing ones opinion.
). Where does one draw the line? In a perfect world, you don't!
The problem is you become more and more sensitive to how, why, when, comments are said. First you are sensitive to cursing. Next, you start to break down the curse words into what is acceptable and what is not. A task that is impossible to do considering everyones opinion. As things progress you become more and more sensitive to the point that you have nowhere else to turn. Finally you are saying, no negative comments whatsoever are to be allowed. It is no different than the argument about Diversity being the downfall of society.
Eventually you have to just let people be people. Policing social habits won't do anyone any good...EVER!. We have alot more to gain by listening to everyones opinion than suppressing ones opinion.
boopish
Reply #16 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:56 PM
Reply #16 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:56 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with the post and firmly believe one can be critical and still civil.
Negative comments can be useful to those of us just learning the art. But there is a qualification to this:
If you think something is a piece of crap, say so, but say WHY you think so and offer ways to help the artist evaluate and perhaps change your opinion.
By saying this is crap and not elaborating on your reasoning, just makes you look bad and an opportunity to help and encourage is lost.
Negative comments can be useful to those of us just learning the art. But there is a qualification to this:
If you think something is a piece of crap, say so, but say WHY you think so and offer ways to help the artist evaluate and perhaps change your opinion.
By saying this is crap and not elaborating on your reasoning, just makes you look bad and an opportunity to help and encourage is lost.
PoSmedley
Reply #17 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:17 PM
This is another reason I wrote this. When I came across the 3rd or fourth 'harsh' criticism, my first reaction was to request that people who have not 'contributed' not be allowed to comment at all. Then, I came to my senses.
I think that Admin has stepped in when it was appropriate and have been more than fair in dealing with the more 'off color' comments.
I would be more than happy if it were just one. It only takes one to set the example and one 'good' example is better than a thousand bad ones.
Thanks for all your kind words, everyone.
Reply #17 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:17 PM
| Eventually you have to just let people be people. Policing social habits won't do anyone any good...EVER!. |
This is another reason I wrote this. When I came across the 3rd or fourth 'harsh' criticism, my first reaction was to request that people who have not 'contributed' not be allowed to comment at all. Then, I came to my senses.
I think that Admin has stepped in when it was appropriate and have been more than fair in dealing with the more 'off color' comments.
| if even one monkey starts to walk upright |
I would be more than happy if it were just one. It only takes one to set the example and one 'good' example is better than a thousand bad ones.
Thanks for all your kind words, everyone.
Cyberworld
Reply #18 Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:44 AM
Reply #18 Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:44 AM
Wow, excellent positioning of ideas Po. Impressing thinking. A very energetic shot for this community. Thank you.
A very energetic shot for this community. Thank you.
Jafo
Reply #19 Thursday, December 29, 2005 5:26 AM
Reply #19 Thursday, December 29, 2005 5:26 AM
| Eventually you have to just let people be people. Policing social habits won't do anyone any good...EVER!. We have alot more to gain by listening to everyones opinion than suppressing ones opinion. |
When we crawled out of the jungle...and began to 'walk upright' we hadn't really travelled all that far....
Some of the comments left on works here, by Homo Erectus, were not the cute and cuddly 'grunt' you'd expect from Harry and the Hendersons....but somewhat more 'crude'.
Suffice it to say that no matter how comparatively mature and decent we'd all LIKE to be....we ain't, or at least.....some of us ain't. [I've kept copies]
So comment moderation is here to stay......[as minimalist as is possible]....
jazzymjr
Reply #20 Thursday, December 29, 2005 6:24 AM
I feel exactly the same. I do welcome criticism, but please explain the negatives...I am here to learn, so saying something negative is ok, as long as one offers suggestions on how to improve.
Reply #20 Thursday, December 29, 2005 6:24 AM
| Negative comments can be useful to those of us just learning the art. But there is a qualification to this: If you think something is a piece of crap, say so, but say WHY you think so and offer ways to help the artist evaluate and perhaps change your opinion. By saying this is crap and not elaborating on your reasoning, just makes you look bad and an opportunity to help and encourage is lost. |
I feel exactly the same. I do welcome criticism, but please explain the negatives...I am here to learn, so saying something negative is ok, as long as one offers suggestions on how to improve.
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Reply #1 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:41 PM