A Challenge To The 'Ruder' Critics

You Know Who You Are

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 by PoSmedley | Discussion: Community

It has been posed in the form of a question in these forums.."Is skinning an art?" Many have replied, and it would seem the overwhelming response is "Yes, it is."

"There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun."
Pablo Picasso.


I think this best describes the ‘art’ of skinning. It’s not just a matter of having a command of the ‘software or program’ you choose to create with, but having a vision to begin with, and the ability to execute it, to be able to bring it to realization, to life. How long did it take for photography to be truly considered an art form by the artists who toiled in ink, paint, and other mediums?

"Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, there was a group of now-famous photographers that called themselves the "f64 Club," who prided themselves on the fact that they shot pictures at f64 to get the sharpest possible photos possible. Why was this unique? Because in those days, photography wasn't considered an art form unless photographers manipulated their photos in the darkroom to "blur them up" so they would look more like paintings. Photography, it seemed, was "too perfect" for the critical art world, so to be considered valid, your photos weren't allowed to be too sharp. The f74 club was a small group of mostly San Francisco photographers that challenged the idea and went against the grain by making incredibly sharp photographs. And, well, the rest is history."

Dan Heller- Photographer


How long did it take the critics to acknowledge photography as an art form? I would guess as soon as they realized they ‘could’ voice themselves on it- and people would listen.

Which brings me to the subject of criticism, particularly criticism in WC. I have noticed a rash of rather ‘harsh’ criticism being thrown about like rotten vegetables at a rowdydow. Something of note is that, a lot of these remarks are made by individuals who have made no contributions of their own, in the way of skins or wallpapers.

"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship"
Zeuxis (400BC)


You could spend hours trying to define ‘art’ in any form or medium. Defining some other things, are a little easier.

Criticism- function: noun
1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE
2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature
3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history

Meriam Webster Dictionary


I especially like the part.."usually unfavorably". If you look up 'review' and 'critique', you will find that they eventually refer back to ‘criticism’. Now , let’s try another word, as it may apply.

Constructive- function: adjective
1 : of or relating to construction or creation
2 : promoting improvement or development


The question this poses to me is this. Should comments made on ‘skins, etc’ be only that of a constructive nature? Of course, if we followed this, would something like ‘Nice work." be out of context? If we allow one, do we allow the other? (Example; This is garbage.) Then there is that whole freedom of speech thing.

It is difficult for a lot of people to take/accept criticism in any form. I feel for the ‘first- time artists’ who have chosen to put themselves’ out there’, as it were, and find harsh and sometimes hurtful criticism discouraging. As a community, I have seen many members at WC rise in defense of these ‘artists’ and it feels good to be part of such a community.

As for those that choose to continuously assault whatever work they see fit to on a whim, all I can do is offer my sincerest condolences. I can only assume it’s your inability to appreciate anything that may be different, beautiful, or just expressive that frustrates you to such lengths that you have no alternative than to unleash a swill of unconstructive, unsupportive, and unintelligent criticisms.

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain- and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie


To the artists that continuously brave these ‘fools’, I admire your determination and constant effort and willingness to put yourselves ‘out there’. To those who would assault these artists without having contributed…

"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it’s done, they’ve seen it done everyday, but their unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan


Though I believe ‘everyone’ is ‘able’, it’s just that some are to caught up to realize it.

"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to the dark place where it leads"
Erica Jong


I challenge you to find your courage. Put yourselves on the line. And discover for yourselves the ‘agony and the ecstasy’ of being an artist. Even when my work is not found appealing to some, or just plain rejected, there is a reward. Whether it be in satisfaction of having created something that only one person likes or frustration that forces me to re-examine what I was trying to say or do, and try again.

Criticism is prejudice made plausible
HL Mencken


You don’t have to hide behind such a transparent ‘plausibility’. The ironic thing is, you might find how quickly any effort you made would be accepted, welcomed, and appreciated. You may succeed, you may fail…but at least you could say you tried. It seems to me, saying you tried is much more intelligent and noble than the harsh and rude things you have chosen to say so far.

A painting in a museum hears more ridiculous opinions than anything else in the world.
Edmond D Concourt


I think most artists can agree with that last quote. It doesn’t mean we like it. It’s just a fact. Like the existence of the ‘fools’ mentioned by Dale Carnegie. But we do not need to exist together in such a hostile an unconstructive way. You know who you are. I challenge you to find your own creativity. Explore it. Express it here. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t like some of the things you saw. Be a part of it.

If in the end, you can’t or won’t, then I challenge you to find a more constructive way to express you opinions. A more encouraging way to voice what you feel. You may not…will not..like everything you see…but shouldn’t your goal be to encourage the artist in the end to keep trying, in hopes that something you like will come forth?

I look forward to seeing if you have the courage and/or the class to accept my challenge.


First Previous Page 2 of 6 Next Last
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #21 Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:01 AM

so saying something negative is ok, as long as one offers suggestions on how to improve. 

The majority of people who write negative comments do not have the knowledge to offer suggestions. Phrases such as 'this is crap' test the boundary of their linguistic prowess.

It would be nice if the more skilled amongst us could offer some constructive criticism, it would help a lot of people. I suspect, however, most do not have the time...

PoSmedley
Reply #22 Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:35 AM
The majority of people who write negative comments do not have the knowledge to offer suggestions.

This is one reason I shy away from being critical at all. I am unfamiliar with the WB process (and getting migraines from trying to sort through all the tutorials) and a few other skinning programs. It doesn't feel right to me to criticise something I can't do or haven't even attempted. But I am 'trying'. I want to make a WB (to go with a new IP I am half way through with)...I just don't know where or how to start..lol.

It would be nice if the more skilled amongst us could offer some constructive criticism, it would help a lot of people.

Constructive criticism has been my biggest ally here. Even the silent kind that comes with a wallpaper being rejected 2 times (or was it three? lol). It forces me to step back and view my work a little more objectively.

but say WHY you think so

I have noticed more people saying why things are good and bad. Even understanding why something is good can help. It's helpful to know when something works. Especially when you are new to this, like me, and you may have stumbled upon something that works without realizing it.

scorpio-logic
Reply #23 Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:07 PM
The majority of people who write negative comments do not have the knowledge to offer suggestions. Phrases such as 'this is crap' test the boundary of their linguistic prowess.


I have a quote, not that I cannot use my own thoughts, but this fits in where you leave off:

"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life.
It's just been too intelligent to come here."

--Arthur C. Clarke


We doggedly search for our own usefulness in order to fit in with the rest of the world of Homo Sapien, and in this trek we will often find ourselves face to face with Homo Erectus, still dabbling with stone tools and the inability to recognize art (including music, prose, math) and we stumble. As long as we, the artist, can recognize the level of critical ability that is articulated by these digressive Hominids, we can learn to "filekill" or just ignore the meandering vulgarities that spew from their fingertips.

Po, you have written this essay well, given it much thought and I thank you so very much for being able to express for me, and maybe many others who contribute, the feelings and thoughts that are on my mind and not yet articulated for the fact that frustration makes a mighty wall.

I second your motion, for just one of the "Vulcommentors" step forth with an artistic endeavor of their own, to be critiqued mercilessly by those flamed before them.

Excellent post, I humble myself before the almighty Po!


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PoSmedley
Reply #24 Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:42 PM
I second your motion, for just one of the "Vulcommentors" step forth with an artistic endeavor of their own, to be critiqued mercilessly by those flamed before them.

I will add to this, hoping we don't misunderstand each other. My hopes are not that they are roasted on a spit should they submit anything. I want to be clear on that. I wanted to make it clear that there is an upside and downside to following your talent, and they should be prepared for both.

My thoughts on their 'interest' in this site are like this. If you want to buy a piece of art, you go to a gallery. If you want to see how it's done, in hopes of learning something...perhaps because you yourself have been bitten by the need to create...you go to the studio and/or workshop. This is the best studio and workshop you are going to find.

I'm assuming they come to this site because they want to learn and contribute. I hope I am making the right assumption.

My challenge is sincere and extended with the best of intentions. I simply am challenging them to take the next logical step. Create. Submit. See what happens. Enjoy. Become a contributing member of the comunity. I will welcome you, and so will others.

If all you can do or are willing to do is offer comments, which is also a form of contribution, make them useful, helpful, and constuctive.

I realize I am probably repeating myself and I apologize. If I seem overly optimistic, I refer you to my Christmas Spirit post. If the majority of the folks here weren't so damn cool, I wouldn't be so optimistic.
PoSmedley
Reply #25 Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:42 PM
bump*
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #26 Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:46 PM
bump


every time my father and I would see a road sign that said "Bump Ahead", he would reach over and bump my head.
PoSmedley
Reply #27 Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:48 PM
*snort
scorpio-logic
Reply #28 Friday, December 30, 2005 11:56 AM
My hopes are not that they are roasted on a spit should they submit anything.


Oh, very well...

I really didn't mean that we should have a roast, either, rather that they:

Create. Submit. See what happens. Enjoy. Become a contributing member of the comunity.



Just that I got a little fired up. Thanks again for your post, Po!


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Hog56
Reply #29 Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:32 AM
I agree with everything thats been said,I'm fairly new to this skinning thing and dont mind some constructive critisism, But i'm a slow learner and a certain amount of critisism I can take(from my peer's).Thats you guys, so thanks to all of you from all of us who are on the bottom rung of the ladder,hoping to get where you are today.
PoSmedley
Reply #30 Monday, January 2, 2006 12:49 AM
Thats you guys, so thanks to all of you from all of us who are on the bottom rung of the ladder,hoping to get where you are today

Nicely said, Hog56. I knew I forgot something.
PoSmedley
Reply #31 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 3:05 PM
Bump
PoSmedley
Reply #32 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 3:43 PM
I don't want to start a whole other thread on something that has to do with this one, so I am hoping a moderator will catch this.

Is it just ME or does it seem that certain 'rude-commenters' are into 'stalking' specific skinners and their work with their negative remarks? And then just to flame the thread?

Just thought I would throw it out there.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #33 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 4:30 PM
Is it just ME or does it seem that certain 'rude-commenters' are into 'stalking' specific skinners and their work with their negative remarks?


Most certainly.
Jafo
Reply #34 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 7:08 PM

Is it just ME or does it seem that certain 'rude-commenters' are into 'stalking' specific skinners and their work with their negative remarks? And then just to flame the thread?

No...not just you.

It's the nature of the beast.

Usually it ends with the comments' removal, or the commenter's, or both....

dj cole
Reply #35 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 7:08 PM
you see i don't mind having negative comments infact i find them
usefull for the most part as long as there constuctive.

BUT... what i do mind is attacks like those of certain commentors
we all know who... but the best thing to do is ignor them and hope they
go away.

now i know i am still learning how to master the skining prosses.
but it's hard enough without bashers.

hopefully moderators do somthing about this


scion2412
Reply #36 Wednesday, January 4, 2006 8:06 PM
perhaps a "report user" link might help. the rude commentors basically have free reign to post whatever they'd like, whenever they'd like. the only hope is that a moderator finds this and takes care of the issue.

i understand that WC needs subscribers and that banning someone should be a last resort. WC also needs artists to bring in new subscribers. if we allow this to continue unchecked as it may be, artists may flock elsewhere.

give the artist some power over what is being said to them...
PoSmedley
Reply #37 Thursday, January 5, 2006 2:20 AM
perhaps a "report user" link might help.


YES! PLEASE! SOMETHING! ANYTHING!....

I don't want to name names (really) but we all know of at least one (if not 2) who seem to go after the same artists in a very negative and agressive manner. I have gotten caught in the flaming myself...and have even offered a link to this thread as a kind of peace offering. It would seem that harrassing is what they are more interested in.

Submitting art and buying the software is not the only way to contribute or take part here. The comments are a big part of the community. But I see nothing POSITIVE in these kinds of harsh and unconstructive contributions...and personally see nothing wrong with banning them from further commenting. Even some of the loudest protesters in history had a point and were trying to make a contribution, but not these so-called critics here.

This may be extreme, but I have yet to see anyone jump to the defense of these 'critics' (and that's an insult to critics) but.....if you have a bad apple you get rid of it before it spoils the rest. It's not like (unfortunately) they are gonna wake up one day and apologize for their ignorance.

If I WANTED to be vindictive I couldn't. They don't even post work of their own. No email. Absolutley no way to respond but in the thread or forum, so what happens in the end is truly in the hands of the moderators. So I beseech you, on behalf of all of us who are just fed up with this ignorant 'crap' (for lack of a better word)..do something, please.

Thanks for listening. Sorry if I seem zealous in this.Rant Off
Jafo
Reply #38 Thursday, January 5, 2006 4:46 AM

perhaps a "report user" link might help.

Yes, it probably would....as currently the email process is a bit cumbersome and slow...

starkers
Reply #39 Thursday, January 5, 2006 8:08 AM
My grandmother, bless her soul, used to say that people who have nothing better to do, other than to say nasty things and rubbish other people, have no self esteem and a very low opinion of themselves....that they have to take it out on others because they simply dont have the intestinal fortitude to admit to their own failings and/or weaknesses.

There's one in every crowd......trouble is, there's also too many sheep. Allowing and or ignoring it once or twice, allows for it to spead like a contagion within the flock. I see many more flamers/rude critics here now than when I first visited.
Studibaker
Reply #40 Thursday, January 5, 2006 10:59 AM
I have been a subscriber for only a short time and i have seen some nasty comments made about peoples work.The only conclusion i can come to (and i think you would agree)is that the rude critics are showing there talent for being rude and lack of talent being creative.

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