Is Skinning Worth It?
- Alot of time, no money back, headaches....
Saturday, November 26, 2005 by --Gabriel | Discussion: Community
Okay, I like doing graphic design. I grew up on a farm, in the middle of a 200 acre cornfield, I didn't like to ride 4-wheelers, go hunting, or line dance so I messed around with the computer when my Dad first bought an old 486. I was lucky enough that my best friends dad was a web-page designer on the side, and that MY dad is an art teacher an had an educational version of Photoshop. I began designing really ugly websites that served no purpose because it was fun and I had nothing better to do.
A few years later when Windows 2000 came out, and everyone was itching for XP I saw a program that could let me have the look of XP early on my older system... I thought that was pretty neat and so I used it. I began customizing the look of my PC and soon began designing skins because they actually were appreciated by people (unlike the useless websites I created.)
I've been happy to make skins and upload them but now as I'm becoming more and more busy and the time it takes to make a good skin become greater and greater with all the new features the fun factor is beginning to wane. I still enjoy the compliments, and the creativity involved... but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time?
In my observation several good skinners have recently seemed to say that it isn't worth the hassle, and kept thier creations to themselves. They may be onto something.
[/rant]
 |
|
Page 3 of 4 | |
|
|---|
Reply #42 Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:25 PM
| Brad, I do thank you for acknowledging that there is a somewhat broken process happening here. All I desperately request is that you and your team try to put your heads together to try something different with it. Something different may not work either, but sooner or later a better process can be found. |
We have put our heads together and the solution is the current rating system. No system will satisfy everyone. We've had years of discussion on the rating system and essentially you will always have a percentage of people who object to any rating system at all and that's a non-starter. We will never get rid of the rating system. There will always be some mechanism in which skins that people like better than others are distinguished.
The current rating system is not the same as the old one. It is weighted by access level which makes a huge difference. If one jerk at citizen level gives a rating of 1 to a good skin and an admin gives it 5 stars, it's going to have 5 stars still. It would take 5 or so jerks to bring it down to 4 stars even and that's exceptionally rare.
Reply #43 Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:01 PM
Reply #44 Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:24 PM
Reply #45 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:19 PM
While its sad to be potentially losing great skinners, I think they fail to see the big picture when complaining about ratings. If its getting high downloads, its obviously popular.
I have to object though when Frogboy suggests that subscribers shouldn't be able to rate. I think my vote should count for something even if I don't have the skill for creating skins.
As for comments, I do agree that an artist should be able to allow or dis-allow them. They should also have the ability to pick out comments that are clearly derogatory or improper and send them to moderators to decide on removal. If they allow comments, being able to remove and keep only those an artist wants would be wrong. You have to take the good with the bad. Just there should be a way to remove those which are really cruel.
I appreciate all the hard working skin artists, even those who's skins I don't particularly like. At least you have made an attempt to do something I would never try. You should not be subjected to ridicule for your skins.
Maybe information should be added that shows how long someone has been skinning? So people would understand a 1 month long skinner not being up to the ability of a 4 year skinner for instance.
Reply #46 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:22 PM
| It is weighted by access level which makes a huge difference. If one jerk at citizen level gives a rating of 1 to a good skin and an admin gives it 5 stars, it's going to have 5 stars still. It would take 5 or so jerks to bring it down to 4 stars even and that's exceptionally rare. |
Then maybe break it out to disply..
Admin Rating: x Stars
User Rating: x Stars
Avg Rating: x Stars
This might help keep people honest.
Reply #47 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:36 PM
| What would you have us do then Phoon? There has to be some sort of mechanism in order for casual users to be able to sort through the skins of various qualities. |
I think the problem is not so much the ratings. What upsets people is a low rating 'hiding' the submission from the 'casual' visitor.
Reply #48 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:36 PM
If a mod gives a skin 3 stars, then a drive-by gives it 1 star, that isn't going to have an effect due to the weighting system mentioned above. Where it is a problem is for those with high enough access levels to have skins auto approved. They go through with an automated 3 stars on, the drive-by comes along and rates it 1 star - the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten. I know, it happened to my last skin. Fortunately others came along to rate and the rating moved up. But you can see how frustrating that can be.
You could post your best ever skin only to have it immediately knocked to 1 star by a passing twit. That's why people with no skinning experience should not be allowed to rate. I don't care if they've paid, the privilege should be removed. Put rating in the hands of those who know what it feels like to be rated.
Reply #49 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:45 PM
| You could post your best ever skin only to have it immediately knocked to 1 star by a passing twit. That's why people with no skinning experience should not be allowed to rate. I don't care if they've paid, the privilege should be removed. Put rating in the hands of those who know what it feels like to be rated. |
I would have to jump on board with this thought. It is the heart of the matter.
Reply #50 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:54 PM
The ability to control who comments on the skins is a great idea too. This will take away some of stress on the admins/mods that have to deal with many emails concerning improper comments.
Just my thoughts
Reply #51 Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:08 PM
| They go through with an automated 3 stars on, the drive-by comes along and rates it 1 star - the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten. |
This is one on the most common problems and since not all admins rate skins, the possibility of having a skin rated with enough weight to disregard the drive-by twits is near to none.
A couple of days ago I had to email Jafo when 2 mins after I uploaded a skin (and with no download count) it was granted a 1 star. If the rating would've stayed, the skin would have remained hidden and the purpose of loading it would've been lost.
Reply #52 Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:08 PM
Reply #53 Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:33 PM
Reply #54 Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:59 PM
| Admin Frogboy: We will never get rid of the rating system. There will always be some mechanism in which skins that people like better than others are distinguished. |
As far as the rating system is concerned... there’s your answer.
It doesn't appear that the rating system is going to change.
| ^^Gabriel.. but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults |
The real issue here was the negative comments being made and the rip accusations. A moderator should have stopped that quickly and the comments should be removed. If anyone believes that their work was plagiarized they should contact a site moderator or admin instead of posting a comment.
Reply #55 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:14 PM
| the rating goes to 1 star because the auto rating is overwritten. |
Why is this allowed? I only comment or rate when I see something I really like. I would gladly give up this access if it meant that skinners wouldn't have to put up with the idiots. We all have to put up with enough of them in the real world. Still not a skinner, maybe someday. It takes enough time just to learn the programs you need let alone doing the actual skinning.
Reply #56 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:17 PM
with all of the new features coming out it's becoming more and more difficult to make something worth while. more features equals higher user expectations of what artists are making for free for the love of making something worth sharing. and if what you create does not support those features, your work is considered sub-par. i think the new transparency features will severely limit what we can do down the road...there are only a few ways to utilize transparency. but again, users will expect this.
bottom line is that users need to understand that one of these works is not their own...you either need to use it and love it...or feel free to make your own.
Reply #57 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:24 PM
| there are only a few ways to utilize transparency. but again, users will expect this. |
Oh no, there are MANY ways to get creative with this. People are just stuck inside the "glass box" This opens up alot more, you'll see.
Reply #58 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:35 PM
Reply #59 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:39 PM
Also, I am very much in favor of the artist being able to nix commnents...
Fuzzy may be right that only skinners should be allowed to rate. But, if this is done then, it could still happen that a very POPULAR skin might get rated down. You know, I also look at the number of downloads before I download. If new skin has several thousand downloads, it's a pretty good bet that it is going to be a hit.
Seems like there could be some kind of compromise that allows the artists to feel more comfortable to be creative.
Reply #60 Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:05 PM
| This is one on the most common problems and since not all admins rate skins, the possibility of having a skin rated with enough weight to disregard the drive-by twits is near to none. A couple of days ago I had to email Jafo when 2 mins after I uploaded a skin (and with no download count) it was granted a 1 star. If the rating would've stayed, the skin would have remained hidden and the purpose of loading it would've been lost. |
Yes. this is a 'problem' and one that is probably at the real root of all the complaint/s.
Since the Admins/mods are all experienced within the skinning community when they post a rating it's from a basis of experience and understanding, so by and large those whose works DO go through moderation are most likely to receive a valid rating 'opinion'.
However, those whose works are auto-approved are currently exposed to the 'idiot rater' and may suffer accordingly...[as above].
I think it's a simple thing to 'fix'....just give that 'auto 6' its own weight....afterall the person who has attained that level of access 'should' be seen as responsible enough to be submitting works of a reasonable standard....that 'should' be publicly visible to all.
Ratings should ONLY be by 'peers'.....people promoted beyond 'citizen' through experience and skinning contribution, NOT through spending a few quid and 'buying the right'.
Comments should be made optional....each skin submission could be set with 'accept all comments', or 'peer only'. The latter may mean fewer comments but they will be from the more 'experienced end of the world' and therefore may be more desirable/valid.
A rating system NEEDS to stay....but I'm sure there's some scope for adjustment.
Not every skinner is thick-skinned. Some just laugh about twit-comments, others are actually hurt by them.
The Number One aim of whatever is done SHOULD be to promote, aid and abet the Skinner.
Wincustomize.com is a "Skinning Site" and therefore its Skinners/Contributors should be placed first within the food chain....a significant distance ABOVE the 'general user/abuser' or even paid-up member.
Just a reminder, though.....anyone having 'grief' from comments, etc....I'm here....
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 3 of 4 | |
|
|---|
Reply #41 Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:18 PM