Is Skinning Worth It?
- Alot of time, no money back, headaches....
Saturday, November 26, 2005 by --Gabriel | Discussion: Community
Okay, I like doing graphic design. I grew up on a farm, in the middle of a 200 acre cornfield, I didn't like to ride 4-wheelers, go hunting, or line dance so I messed around with the computer when my Dad first bought an old 486. I was lucky enough that my best friends dad was a web-page designer on the side, and that MY dad is an art teacher an had an educational version of Photoshop. I began designing really ugly websites that served no purpose because it was fun and I had nothing better to do.
A few years later when Windows 2000 came out, and everyone was itching for XP I saw a program that could let me have the look of XP early on my older system... I thought that was pretty neat and so I used it. I began customizing the look of my PC and soon began designing skins because they actually were appreciated by people (unlike the useless websites I created.)
I've been happy to make skins and upload them but now as I'm becoming more and more busy and the time it takes to make a good skin become greater and greater with all the new features the fun factor is beginning to wane. I still enjoy the compliments, and the creativity involved... but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time?
In my observation several good skinners have recently seemed to say that it isn't worth the hassle, and kept thier creations to themselves. They may be onto something.
[/rant]
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Reply #22 Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:37 PM
I tend to sometimes feel much teh same way.
I don't think the rating system is a problem though since only around 1% of site visitors can rate things (you have to be an apprentice or subscriber). I would like to see only apprentices on up be able to rate skins.
On commenting, similarly, I would like to see an option where only apprentices on up could comment on a skin if the skin author chooses that.
Reply #23 Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:47 PM
Hope to see these options in practice soon.
Reply #24 Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:32 AM
| I don't think the rating system is a problem though since only around 1% of site visitors can rate things |
Sorry Brad, but I have to disagree. If the first rating that your skin receives is a malicious low rating, it immediately removes it from the view of the casual visitors, which significantly affects it's download count, and therefore it's popularity.
However, that is my last word as I don't want to become involved in another fruitless ratings discussion.
Reply #25 Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:40 AM
| I would like to see only apprentices on up be able to rate skins. |
Reply #26 Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:56 AM
Reply #27 Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:32 AM
For all who skin, thank you. I love you and appreciate what you do.
Reply #28 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:41 AM
| If the first rating that your skin receives is a malicious low rating, it immediately removes it from the view of the casual visitors, which significantly affects it's download count, and therefore it's popularity. |
Gotta say I agree wholeheartedly with this comment by BoXXi.
And given the low numbers of people who do actually comment and rate skins ...once that skin has disappeared from the view of casual visitors, it can take forever to regain popularity, if ever.
I hope something different can be implemented soon, before we lose so many many of the "old guard" [no offense meant with "old"
] of skinners, ~that skinning might lose it's popularity overall.Not to mention that they're a nice bunch of folks that it would be a shame to lose...
Reply #29 Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:48 AM
| is this a joke, (sry if you worked hard). it looks like i just puked on the screen, lol. i have it on right now as a joke, lol! its worth the laughs! |
However, I have finished an unreleased mini-suite that I will upload when the time comes.
Reply #30 Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:31 AM
Reply #31 Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:29 AM
| It's been tough for me...college and a girlfriend has kept me extremely busy... |
Same for me here!
Reply #32 Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:43 AM
| If the first rating that your skin receives is a malicious low rating, it immediately removes it from the view of the casual visitors |
BoXXi is right on target with this. This one facet of rating has the effect, intended or not, of saying "This skin is not good enough to be shown on WC".
The sad part is that anyone with rating ability has the power to determine if your skin shows on the site.
Yes, I know things tend to even out after a period of time and it gathers enough ratings, however this period can extend almost indefinitely if your skin is not included on Newest,Popular,etc lists due the low rating.
I'm not looking for an argument here or asking for someone to 'prove' me wrong, just saying some things that many skinners think but have not said.
Gabriel: Above all, do what you think is best. I agree ... if it's not fun, why do it?.
Just know that there are sites where you can post your skins without being rated and without getting inane, idiotic comments.
Check my Favorite Links on my WC page Link for an example.
Reply #33 Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:52 AM
Reply #34 Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:02 PM
| I don't think the rating system is a problem |
| Sorry Brad, but I have to disagree |
I agree with Boxxi on this. If the rating system didn't have problems it would not lead to these kinds of threads so often. It IS a problem and WC has lost many fine skinners because of it. Isn't it time that you guys took these threads seriously instead of always telling us that it isn't broken?
Reply #35 Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:40 PM
thay should try skinning them selves it's not that easy at all!!!!!
Reply #36 Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:42 PM
I agree with the sumise on ratings.if the first rating on a skin is low the skin will be hidden from most visitors site. unfortunately many good skins are not ever seen by most visitors because the first rating was low. there fore discouraging many skinners....
TO my skinning pals.. i know the haters are getting more prevalant.. but please remember .....there are those of use who really appreciate your efforts and goodies you share with us..the joy you spread is unmeasureable...
Thanks to all the artists for their time and works.
Sincerely
HG_Eliminator
Reply #37 Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:43 PM
Reply #38 Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:44 PM
| I agree with Boxxi on this. If the rating system didn't have problems it would not lead to these kinds of threads so often. It IS a problem and WC has lost many fine skinners because of it. Isn't it time that you guys took these threads seriously instead of always telling us that it isn't broken? |
What would you have us do then Phoon? There has to be some sort of mechanism in order for casual users to be able to sort through the skins of various qualities.
Let's use Boxxi's skins as an example: The average rating on his skins is 4 stars.
The lowest is 3 stars which is STILL above average (2.5 stars is an "average" skin).
Boxxi's 5th most popular skin of all time has a 3.5 star rating.
Ratings are part of any serious library site. Over on Download.com, WindowBlinds has only a 3.5 star average review. Yea, it stings, but the alternative is for new users to be overwhelmed with skins OR we personally moderate skins very very harshly.
SKinners want to pick up their ball and go home? I would hate to see that happen but the only ones who suffer are the users and the skinners.
When the supply of free content goes down, the market for premium (non-free) content goes way up. So users better start bloody being more appreciative of skinners. But skinners, I think, need to have a thicker skin sometimes. Not everyone can have a 5 star rating.
Since Boxxi is a moderator here and we're friends, I'll use his skins as an example. On his top 5 skins I've rated them personally at around 3 stars on average. I don't consider that malicious. It's just my opinion.
The rating system is weighted by access. An admin rating a skin has their rating count 9 times versus an apprentice which is only counted 1 time. Few skins don't get rated by at least a couple of moderators (who are weighted at something like 5 times an apprentice or super moderator 6 times an apprentice).
If the rating system costs the site a few skinners, so-be-it. There's nothing that can be done about it that doesn't involve causing pain to someone. If only the admins rated it, for instance, the results could be even more dire. Again, to use Boxxi's, if only I rated skins, Boxxi's would average 3.5 stars which is lower than the rating most people give because we all have different tastes.
To me, a malicious rating would be a 1 star rating in which the user didn't even take a good look or did so in order to purposely lower the person's rating for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of a skin.
What I don't like personally is that subscribers can rate skins. I don't think that's right. I think that rating a skin should be earned. This was something implemented without my input and now it's hard to take away such a feature from paying users.
I also think that skinners should have the right to control who comments on their skins. On JoeUser.com, users can say who can comment on their blogs for instance. I think the same thing would be nice on WinCustomize.
But in the end, the problem is that the people who care about the skinners hang out in this forum and the people who would say crappy things do not.
I think one solution may be to have a place here on the forums where skinners can easily report this kind of thing and we moderators can jump in and take care of those people. I feel contempt for losers who have nothing better to do than to crap on people who share their hard work with the world.
Reply #39 Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:45 PM
| Thanks to all the artists for their time and works. |
Absolutely agree the artists deserve a grateful thank you! It's a shame a "few" bad apples have to spoil things for the rest of us who appreciate all the time and effort that goes into making these wonderful creations.
No matter what you do you will have the "Good" the "Bad" and the just plain "Ignorant" commenting.
Reply #40 Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:53 PM
BTW, that STJ character is clueless. I checked out that Xbox skin you made. I've been using it since it came out and featured it right away (it may still be in the queue). It' s a really good skin.
People who are in the spotlight attract the attention of jerks. I think most here (who know me) will agree when I say there's no one in this thread who has been flamed anywhere near as much as I have over the years. You never get used to it.
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Reply #21 Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:29 PM
I feel the same Gabriel......exactly. I won't make any more skins until the rating sytem goes, and you can choose whether to allow comments. Those things are never going to change, so I guess I won't be making any more skins
This speaks volumes for the abolition of the ratings system and policing of the comments section to remove the obnoxious and counter-productive.....the loud ignorant few, as Reppicks so aptly put it. Skinners are only human, and a kick in the guts is a kick in the guts, whether it be physical or mental, emotional or spritual, paticularly when it's too often repeated.
Nobody wants their efforts to be constantly put down, ridiculed and/or trivialised, particularly when they've shared them for free. Eventually they're dissuaded entirely, as is evidenced by several top skinners looking for the door, some already having found it.
If the current system isn't given a serious overhaul to prevent ratings abuse and snide comments, several more will eventually find the door and leave also. That is not in the best interests of WC or the majority of people who come here to enjoy the quality works and community atmosphere.
Civility and being polite costs nothing, whereas the alternative always bears a price, someone loses something.....and what goes around comes around.