Is Skinning Worth It?
- Alot of time, no money back, headaches....
Saturday, November 26, 2005 by --Gabriel | Discussion: Community
[rant]
Okay, I like doing graphic design. I grew up on a farm, in the middle of a 200 acre cornfield, I didn't like to ride 4-wheelers, go hunting, or line dance so I messed around with the computer when my Dad first bought an old 486. I was lucky enough that my best friends dad was a web-page designer on the side, and that MY dad is an art teacher an had an educational version of Photoshop. I began designing really ugly websites that served no purpose because it was fun and I had nothing better to do.
A few years later when Windows 2000 came out, and everyone was itching for XP I saw a program that could let me have the look of XP early on my older system... I thought that was pretty neat and so I used it. I began customizing the look of my PC and soon began designing skins because they actually were appreciated by people (unlike the useless websites I created.)
I've been happy to make skins and upload them but now as I'm becoming more and more busy and the time it takes to make a good skin become greater and greater with all the new features the fun factor is beginning to wane. I still enjoy the compliments, and the creativity involved... but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time?
In my observation several good skinners have recently seemed to say that it isn't worth the hassle, and kept thier creations to themselves. They may be onto something.
[/rant]
Okay, I like doing graphic design. I grew up on a farm, in the middle of a 200 acre cornfield, I didn't like to ride 4-wheelers, go hunting, or line dance so I messed around with the computer when my Dad first bought an old 486. I was lucky enough that my best friends dad was a web-page designer on the side, and that MY dad is an art teacher an had an educational version of Photoshop. I began designing really ugly websites that served no purpose because it was fun and I had nothing better to do.
A few years later when Windows 2000 came out, and everyone was itching for XP I saw a program that could let me have the look of XP early on my older system... I thought that was pretty neat and so I used it. I began customizing the look of my PC and soon began designing skins because they actually were appreciated by people (unlike the useless websites I created.)
I've been happy to make skins and upload them but now as I'm becoming more and more busy and the time it takes to make a good skin become greater and greater with all the new features the fun factor is beginning to wane. I still enjoy the compliments, and the creativity involved... but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time?
In my observation several good skinners have recently seemed to say that it isn't worth the hassle, and kept thier creations to themselves. They may be onto something.
[/rant]
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scorpio-logic
Reply #2 Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:32 AM
Reply #2 Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:32 AM
Very sad to see you feel this way. I have only just begun to sample the awesome skins that were made during 2004. You have a talent in creating skins. The artwork is awesome. The graphical design is awesome. Yes, very sad to hear you might not have the time or wherewithal to continue. Thank you for the time you did spend on your creations, and for uploading and sharing them with this community. I truly would love to see what you could do with the new features in Windowblinds, your work is inspiring. Thank you. 
TYCUS
Reply #3 Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:01 AM
Reply #3 Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:01 AM
Gabriel,
...do you feel licke that becouse of STJ...?
if that is the reasson..., just don´t get crushed by him..., you are a great skinner...! and the only thing that i would say to you is that just keep going with your great work and forget any bad thing that others tell you...
...do you feel licke that becouse of STJ...?
if that is the reasson..., just don´t get crushed by him..., you are a great skinner...! and the only thing that i would say to you is that just keep going with your great work and forget any bad thing that others tell you...
BoXXi
Reply #4 Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:42 AM
Reply #4 Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:42 AM
I feel the same Gabriel......exactly. I won't make any more skins until the rating sytem goes, and you can choose whether to allow comments. Those things are never going to change, so I guess I won't be making any more skins. 
PixelPirate
Reply #5 Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:43 AM
Reply #5 Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:43 AM
Here are the reasons that keeps me from skinning these days:
Less time; Got other stuff on my mind now with an apartment and all the bills to pay for, getting back into shape, I work out a lot, I jog and I'm also spinning on those bikes.
Love; Found a sweetheart that takes a lot of time too, but absolutely more worth it than anything else
Behaviour challenged people; I've talked with a couple of established people from WC about this, the general feeling is that some of us are tired of people posting idiotic comments or ranting gibberish, it's the attitude that sickens me, all the time we spend creating something we think is worth sharing and all the fun is down the drain because some idiot kid with no manners thinks he can write whatever he thinks on the internet. Or those who think they can demand matching skins for various other apps and keep emailing you about it, there is what there is, appreciate that or make that matching skin yourself.
I love to create.
But I'd prefer to stick to premium content and other jobs that pay. After being away for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it, spending all those hours I could do something better with rather than creating free skins.
Less time; Got other stuff on my mind now with an apartment and all the bills to pay for, getting back into shape, I work out a lot, I jog and I'm also spinning on those bikes.
Love; Found a sweetheart that takes a lot of time too, but absolutely more worth it than anything else
Behaviour challenged people; I've talked with a couple of established people from WC about this, the general feeling is that some of us are tired of people posting idiotic comments or ranting gibberish, it's the attitude that sickens me, all the time we spend creating something we think is worth sharing and all the fun is down the drain because some idiot kid with no manners thinks he can write whatever he thinks on the internet. Or those who think they can demand matching skins for various other apps and keep emailing you about it, there is what there is, appreciate that or make that matching skin yourself.
I love to create.
But I'd prefer to stick to premium content and other jobs that pay. After being away for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it, spending all those hours I could do something better with rather than creating free skins.
WOM
Reply #6 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:03 AM
Reply #6 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:03 AM
For those people that are single with a lot of free time, go for it.
For those that are married or have sweethearts, do you think you can ignore them and they will be there forever.
As a non skinner, I know how much time is needed to do a skin or a suite. Each skinner has to make up their own mind if the time spent is worth it.
For those that are married or have sweethearts, do you think you can ignore them and they will be there forever.
As a non skinner, I know how much time is needed to do a skin or a suite. Each skinner has to make up their own mind if the time spent is worth it.
Cyberworld
Reply #7 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:21 AM
Reply #7 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:21 AM
Gabriel, Boxxi, Pixel Pirate i can understand your reasons that you have stopped skinning. Although i don't like it i have to respect this. Know that you guys are some of the best around.
Apocalypse_67
Reply #8 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:23 AM
Reply #8 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:23 AM
I know exactly how you feel Gabe.
This is one of the reason why I have not uploaded more skins and perhaps the reason why many good skinners have become "invisible" in the community. It seems that these days, people have no sense or appreciation of the work involved in creating a skin. The funny thing is that those that give skinners a hard time are those that bring nothing to the table except their rude manners.
Hopefully as Boxxi mentioned, the rating system will change/disappear and the comment feature be upgraded and we can be a big happy skinning family again.
| but is it worth dealing with the headaches, the insults, the assholes, the loss of free time? |
This is one of the reason why I have not uploaded more skins and perhaps the reason why many good skinners have become "invisible" in the community. It seems that these days, people have no sense or appreciation of the work involved in creating a skin. The funny thing is that those that give skinners a hard time are those that bring nothing to the table except their rude manners.
Hopefully as Boxxi mentioned, the rating system will change/disappear and the comment feature be upgraded and we can be a big happy skinning family again.
Psikotik
Reply #9 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:24 AM
Reply #9 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:24 AM
I am not a skinner. I would love to be but simply don't have the talent. Those who would trash/insult/etc. items posted on the site should be warned then banned. Different people have different skill levels, but at least they are willing to put something together and share it with others.
As for the time/money constraints of those who spend many hours putting together a skin. Maybe there needs to be a system where downloads are SEVERELY restricted for non-subscribers, and there is some kind of "royalties" setup for each skinner based off the number of downloads they get.
As for the time/money constraints of those who spend many hours putting together a skin. Maybe there needs to be a system where downloads are SEVERELY restricted for non-subscribers, and there is some kind of "royalties" setup for each skinner based off the number of downloads they get.
Studibaker
Reply #10 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:37 AM
Reply #10 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:37 AM
It is sad to see good skinners drop out because of a few wankers who cant say anything good about creativity (most of the time these wankers have no tallent at all).I can understand when u ned more time to spend with loved ones.Either way its a loss to the community when you stop skinning.
PoSmedley
Reply #11 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:11 AM
Reply #11 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:11 AM
Over the past few days, I have seen some frustrating things.
Like, Non-Subscribers 'trashing' other peoples efforts. (I will admit..they claim to only 14..but that's no excuse)So I can understand where Gabriel and some others are coming from.
Being new to this and not near as accomplished as a lot of you, I still have my moments of pride in certain things I create, and I am wary of posting. With me, it's more a mater of getting past the Admin's. lol.
I had a thought on the rating system...and a lot may think I'm insane and this would only make things worse..but...it's 'just a thought'.
What about 2 ratings. One from Admin's when it's approved...and one from everyone else. I say this, because I get frustrated when I see something new of mine open at say 7 stars...and in a matter of minutes, fall to 4. Does anyone else relate to this?
I had one item debut at 8 stars. A FIRST for me. Granted, I don't know if that came from an admin or not...but when I looked at it again in a half-hour, it had dropped to 6...and so on. I do realize that such a system could work in reverse..but I think having the 2 different ratings would be interesting...and you would have one rating..good or bad..that no one else could mess with.
I have to go back to my padded cell now.
Like, Non-Subscribers 'trashing' other peoples efforts. (I will admit..they claim to only 14..but that's no excuse)So I can understand where Gabriel and some others are coming from.
Being new to this and not near as accomplished as a lot of you, I still have my moments of pride in certain things I create, and I am wary of posting. With me, it's more a mater of getting past the Admin's. lol.
I had a thought on the rating system...and a lot may think I'm insane and this would only make things worse..but...it's 'just a thought'.
What about 2 ratings. One from Admin's when it's approved...and one from everyone else. I say this, because I get frustrated when I see something new of mine open at say 7 stars...and in a matter of minutes, fall to 4. Does anyone else relate to this?
I had one item debut at 8 stars. A FIRST for me. Granted, I don't know if that came from an admin or not...but when I looked at it again in a half-hour, it had dropped to 6...and so on. I do realize that such a system could work in reverse..but I think having the 2 different ratings would be interesting...and you would have one rating..good or bad..that no one else could mess with.
I have to go back to my padded cell now.
retiredmaster
Reply #12 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:25 AM
Reply #12 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:25 AM
It's good to take a break - even neccessary at times. I get bored after doing a succession of skins and need to recharge the batteries from time to time. I've said "that's the last one" on more than one occasion.
But after a break there will come a time when you just 'see' an idea for a skin... and you'll want to make it. You'll just have to make it! Then you'll want to share it.
So don't say goodbye - make it 'au revoir'. And the critics? What do they know! The first person you skin for is yourself! The rest is just gravy.
But after a break there will come a time when you just 'see' an idea for a skin... and you'll want to make it. You'll just have to make it! Then you'll want to share it.
So don't say goodbye - make it 'au revoir'. And the critics? What do they know! The first person you skin for is yourself! The rest is just gravy.
Bushman
Reply #13 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:33 AM
I am just starting to skin and I understand the time and effort it takes to do a skin. I try not to let the rating system get me down, it bugs me in the beginning but then I remember why I made it and all that crap goes away. The only reason I started skinning was because I had to retire a lot sooner than I was hoping for and I became separated from my wife (no kids), so I had all this time on my hands. I couldn't even think of skinning while I was still working and married as a matter of fact it was not even on my mind. I skin now only because I have the time to do it and I have income coming in and I'm older so I don't need to explore the world any more. Hell my wife almost divorced me because I was spending so much time on the computer writng papers for college, I type slow
Art will always be "in the eyes of the beholder" so just try to remember why you do it. Take care of yourself and your family first and when you have the time work on a skin just don't give it up you'll regret it later, 
I know I did, plus we need your talent and wisdom.
Reply #13 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:33 AM
| It is sad to see good skinners drop out because of a few wankers who cant say anything good about creativity (most of the time these wankers have no tallent at all).I can understand when u ned more time to spend with loved ones.Either way its a loss to the community when you stop skinning. |
I am just starting to skin and I understand the time and effort it takes to do a skin. I try not to let the rating system get me down, it bugs me in the beginning but then I remember why I made it and all that crap goes away. The only reason I started skinning was because I had to retire a lot sooner than I was hoping for and I became separated from my wife (no kids), so I had all this time on my hands. I couldn't even think of skinning while I was still working and married as a matter of fact it was not even on my mind. I skin now only because I have the time to do it and I have income coming in and I'm older so I don't need to explore the world any more. Hell my wife almost divorced me because I was spending so much time on the computer writng papers for college, I type slow
Art will always be "in the eyes of the beholder" so just try to remember why you do it. Take care of yourself and your family first and when you have the time work on a skin just don't give it up you'll regret it later, 
I know I did, plus we need your talent and wisdom.
Phoon
Reply #14 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:45 AM
Reply #14 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:45 AM
Gabriel,
If there is one thing that is solid and consistent here (or anywhere) it is this. If a skin is released and the author is ^^Gabriel.. it is a classic gem worth having.
I totally understand (and share) your viewpoint as well. I hope you find it within you to continue on but will understand and support your decision should you choose to retire.
Thanks for the great ones you have given thus far.
If there is one thing that is solid and consistent here (or anywhere) it is this. If a skin is released and the author is ^^Gabriel.. it is a classic gem worth having.
I totally understand (and share) your viewpoint as well. I hope you find it within you to continue on but will understand and support your decision should you choose to retire.
Thanks for the great ones you have given thus far.
qrush
Reply #15 Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:10 AM
Reply #15 Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:10 AM
It's been tough for me...college and a girlfriend has kept me extremely busy...I'm just glad I can help out as much as I can.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #16 Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:15 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:15 PM
It is worth it if you do it for yourself and only yourself. Whatever the rewards are, if it brings you down, you have to take a step back and take a Holiday. There has been a shitload of "I am quitting skining" comments as of late. Some people I feel like....so C ya, wouldn't want to be ya, and then there is others like you Gabriel. If you, Boxxi, Pixel Pirate, drop out, we all lose. <--period!
Perhaps a challenge could spark some inspiration into some of you guys. I'll be back!
Perhaps a challenge could spark some inspiration into some of you guys. I'll be back!
The Real Shark
Reply #17 Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:19 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:19 PM
I would like to echo the semtiments of those that say to ^^Gabriel, PixelPirate, Boxxi, and essorant-you are great skinners. I would wish you not stop skinning. Indeed your designs are interesting and classic. You push the envelope for the rest of us that wish to aspire to skinning. I really do not have the time. I have played with certain elements like just designing a minimize. maximize, close button. This takes me much time and makes me appreciate what you designers do.
I have designed and maintained my own website. I designed the graphincs and the layout. It is very time-consuming. So, I know about the time issues. I don't seem to have the time anymore.
But, skinning... I don't know where to begin...
I really enjoy using WB and hope that there will be skinners that continue to create.
But, ultimately it is your decision. Perhpas if enough of us say do not stop, maybe you will re-consider.
I have designed and maintained my own website. I designed the graphincs and the layout. It is very time-consuming. So, I know about the time issues. I don't seem to have the time anymore.
But, skinning... I don't know where to begin...
I really enjoy using WB and hope that there will be skinners that continue to create.
But, ultimately it is your decision. Perhpas if enough of us say do not stop, maybe you will re-consider.
Daiwa
Reply #19 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:15 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:15 PM
Skinning is very time-consuming unless you do it a lot & are skilled with the tools of a high-end graphics program. I do it as a hobby, mainly for myself, using nothing but MSPaint, because I just enjoy the challenge of making it all "fit" (takes all kinds, what can I say?).
Because I do it piecemeal when the time is available, it takes a long time to finish a skin - I have a suite of 7 or 8 skins which are all variations on a particular theme but substantially different from each other, 2 of which I uploaded more than 18 months ago, when I was still using WB3x. I've been working on them, and developed 5 or six more, ever since and it seems no sooner do I get them about ready to upload that a new version of WB comes out or new skinnable features are added to the existing version. Or I spot something off by 1 pixel or something I want to change which looks simple enough to do, or it occurs to me how I could get the look I want with a new trick, but then I remember that the graphics are so interdependent there are a dozen dominoes which must be attended to once you make a single change - even then I miss some which shouldn't be missed if I want to maintain a consistent look. I've just found it hard to keep pace with WB development as a hobbyist skinner. And I don't even mess with animations or Toolbar Buttons.
Nonetheless, I find it enjoyable, and those skins will get uploaded before too long.
Cheers,
Daiwa
Because I do it piecemeal when the time is available, it takes a long time to finish a skin - I have a suite of 7 or 8 skins which are all variations on a particular theme but substantially different from each other, 2 of which I uploaded more than 18 months ago, when I was still using WB3x. I've been working on them, and developed 5 or six more, ever since and it seems no sooner do I get them about ready to upload that a new version of WB comes out or new skinnable features are added to the existing version. Or I spot something off by 1 pixel or something I want to change which looks simple enough to do, or it occurs to me how I could get the look I want with a new trick, but then I remember that the graphics are so interdependent there are a dozen dominoes which must be attended to once you make a single change - even then I miss some which shouldn't be missed if I want to maintain a consistent look. I've just found it hard to keep pace with WB development as a hobbyist skinner. And I don't even mess with animations or Toolbar Buttons.
Nonetheless, I find it enjoyable, and those skins will get uploaded before too long.
Cheers,
Daiwa
Reppiks
Reply #20 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:10 PM
Reply #20 Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:10 PM
Is it worth it? A personal decision for sure. Those who can create art, weather it be music, graphic, or other, it fulfills a need within yourself. How much time you commit to it is dependent on what else you value in your life. Family comes first, along with the rent etc. Who you share it with becomes the big question, everyone wants to be apperciated, and indeed you artist are! There is a hidden ratting system here that all can see, it's right in front of all of us. Look at the download totals, subtract the negative comments, and look at the difference in numbers. Somewhere in that total is a bunch of people that like what they see, sure, they should have left a comment without a doubt! I, for one would miss your creations, but I also understand priorities, just don't let the loud ignorant few out vote the many that get great enjoyment of the works that you are willing to share with us. Have a happy holiday season, Reppiks
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Reply #1 Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:32 AM
Since I am a long way from being any level of skinner, I will have to sympathize with spending time and energy on something that one can eventually burn out on.
I would say that allowing the bad side of any issue dictate your actions would be wrong, and that taking a break to prevent burn-out and to gain a fresh perspective would be recommended - at least this is what I do when I sense myself "burning out". At least it allows one to make a decision based on one's true feelings on the issue, and not on feelings that have been - in part - created by outside influences.
I think this is especially true when referring to any art form.
Creating skins for yourself sounds like a good idea, and would perhaps give you some needed gratification. These creations could be shared after a certain amount of time if deemed worth the effort to provide to others.
From the point of view of a non-skinner/user of skins, I can say that appreciation exists. There are certainly many more users whose lives are made a bit better by the works created by yourself and other skinners, than users who take these works for granted.
If it makes you happy.........