Subscription Drive: Status report
We're not going to make it..
Thursday, October 13, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details. Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.
The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week.
13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new. Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else. That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site. 345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).
As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today. It's a 2MB file. That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense. Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site. Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.
Which brings us back to the start of this news item. WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run. That's bandwidth + salaries. Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string. A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more. deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site.
So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal? Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much. Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.
For regular users it's going to be a different story. Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month. We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account. This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.
In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize. That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers. People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive.
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Reply #142 Monday, October 17, 2005 9:23 AM
| Grayg... I've suggested that several times, and I'd be willing to work on that process as well. I know both myself and another friend have worked on CSS-ified test versions. It would be way faster! Then again, php probably would be too, but thats a whole different kick in the nuts... |
Yeah... PHP would help too.
I've been building professional 5-6 figure CSS designs for a few years now. I tried building a test site with the current WC design. It took me about 20 minutes and it weighs about 80% less. It wouldn't take much work to lower this sites bandwidth to a reasonable level.
Reply #143 Monday, October 17, 2005 4:04 PM
Reply #144 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:19 AM
Reply #145 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:12 AM
Just a thought maybe consideration should be given to some type of point based system for lower income people. Subscriber votes being giving more value obviously.
Before people get all pissy do the math. I receive $959CDN a month, Rent is $523, Hydro $75, Water $65,basic phone $30, medication(not covered) $150 and my only indulgence is dialup at $16. If I'm ever able to purchase a year dial up for $10/mth then obviously this is one of the sites that will get some money.
Reply #146 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:40 AM
Come on Stardock what do you think, could any of the ideas be put in to practice and would they help??
Reply #147 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:28 PM
| When is the Halloween Skin coming out |
Last year, about same date, by apocalypse_67
Reply #148 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:33 PM
| Some very interesting comments in this thread. I still think a Subscriber level model would work. But one thing i have noticed is a lack of input from Stardock? Are they really interested in all the ideas being thrown around here? |
What do you mean ?
Wincustomize need Stardock ?
i think i've seen an article asking if Stardock needed Wincustomize https://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?AID=88041 
Reply #149 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:06 PM
I just Lurk for the most part,read the forums articles, and buy as much Stardock/Wincustomize stuff as I can afford. Been a SDOD user since 2001. Just purchased my first Wincustomize subscription...only $20.Probably own 8 or 9 SD/WC products. I never would have purchased a Damn thing if I hadn't read SD history off main site and this quote of Brad's in particular "Customer loyalty really matters. If you treat people fairly, with respect, as individuals instead of “consumers,” you will earn their respect and trust in return."My trust has not been misplaced, never a raw deal for me here. Solution for site traffic is in moving these "consumers" overusing the site's resources into individual members of the best damn software/skin site on the net. I like the idea of keeping WCsubscribers, ODsubscribers , and developers on a completely different level from the masses. Allow viewing of ALL skins and addons to everyone, allow only 2-3 downloads of 5meg for unregistered on a waiting list, you know , allow x amount of bandwidth for unregistered users so they have to wait in line to download with 24 milion others , then a tiered, incremental structure to gradually (2-3$ at a time) bring them out of the cold into the community. You know the vast majority will USE as long as you let them, DEFINE the value of each benefit you give, then let the transients know FAIR USE(take AND give) is the only use this site supports.The individuals who have issue with 20$ for fair use...well they need to be re-edjucated by your site...or they need to go , bottom line. Four years of using the most non-draconian software I have found(OD), and I always felt I was getting off way to easy because of the free unlimited downloads from WC. I know the above is alot of work time and effort but IMHO I believe it is the only model that will not alienate huge sections of the community.one last thing , Public parks, restroom, streets are dumps without taxpayer dollars.......only by defining and enforcing a value can you hope to make this site self-sustaining.
Thank You for Your Attention in this Matter
Reply #150 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:38 PM
You need to refocus on what Wincustomize was all about, skinning.
If the bulk of your data you pay for is the wallpaper section ( my logic tells me that non stardock customers only would download those) get rid of it. Instead you give Wincustomize customers the possibility to upload walls on their own WC site, no moderation, maybe a MB limit ( That way non popular walls can be replaced by the customer, rather than to keep hosting them in a section) but keep new submissions in the "just in" column. You can still feature them.
Furthermore, WC was mostly there for the skinners, the ones that were clients from Stardock. I think you need to look at the upload side too. Hosting work is also a cost.
Give people choice between different levels of subscriptions. Cap uploads to say 10 or 15 uploads ( i am thinking of non walls related skins ), then start with mandatory subscriptions for hosting more works. For instance $5 per year for unlimited uploads/downloads for Stardock customers. $ 7,50 for non Stardock customers ( with walls extra charge for say an extra 20 MB) I would call that Wincustomize Client subscription. Then the Wincustomize Premium subscription for $10 a year with premium skins, released every 6 months. You should also look at ways to let customers sell their skins through your site. For instance a Wincustomize Professional subscribtion for $45 per year. Revenues go totally towards the skinner, it's their work. Again, no moderation, things will sort out by themselves. Skinners can set their own prices. No involvement from WC, except maybe advocating certain skins, category commercial and non-commercial ones. At the moment I feel everybody sets up their own site in order to earn a bit of the cake. I'd say try to bring them together at your site, make a real community.
OK, so you might not run break-even, you can tax dodge the costs can you? WC is your biggest advertisement sign.
In other words, give the power back to the people that want to use the site, rather than to try to control almost everything.
Reply #151 Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:47 PM
| Some very interesting comments in this thread. I still think a Subscriber level model would work. But one thing i have noticed is a lack of input from Stardock? Are they really interested in all the ideas being thrown around here? |
Such is life....This thread started the day I was off to Phillip Island....working at the MotoGP [that other volunteer job]...and came back to 3 pages of thread....149 comments, many of which were lengthy.
As a Wincustomize.com site 'admin' I naturally [conscientiously] read each and every word....so I've 'caught up'...
Stardock themselves are equally interested in Community input.....that is the very reason it's called a 'Community'.
What can be gleaned from all the input so far is a general acceptance that something 'needs' to change, so it probably will. It's Stardock's declaration of the 'need' and the Community's understanding of the 'necessity' that will lead to change....
No matter how you phrase it, arrogance/exclusional/elitist, the reality is there are only two types of people accessing this site....Those who contribute, and those who don't.
I think it's time for those who don't to jump ship and join the 'those who contribute'.
Now, 'contribution' is not limited to 'subscription', hence they are two different words.
Skinners, forum chin-waggers, subscribers, SD customers, casual visitors monopolizing bandwidth....they ALL 'contribute'...to a degree.
The 'degree' differs.
Unfortunately, the first four 'groups' make up such a small proportion, number-wise, yet are essentially the ONLY financial supporters of the site. [the 'visitors' have a potential 'value'...through word-of-mouth dissemination/advertising that 'may' lead to new 'visitors' who decide to subscribe, etc].
The obvious site traffic means that the content is appealing.....and if that's the case it 'should' also be saleable, too.
Now, 'saleable' does not mean specifically paying the skinner who has his works here....but paying FOR the skinner's having his works here....aka...paying the bandwidth those skins use.
The trick is obviously to coerce more casual visitors to JOIN...to become members of the Site's community, willing to financially contribute....maybe just because it's helping their new 'friends'.
The Community NEEDS to be appealing to the 'newbie'....if it's 'cliquish' that should be all-embracing....exactly what 'community' means, afterall....
Mention has been made about WC 'exiles', and other sites, etc. Some of the people who raised these as 'issues' are new so are probably unaware of the history/s. Wincustomize.com is just one skinning site amongst several 'sister' sites....we all know each-other....most older members here are members of all the others as well. Each targets a slightly diverse user-base...Deviantart for example morphed from originally being an art-oriented skinning site to an art site with skins.
From time to time, a site member may overstep his/her welcome and fail to respond to reasonable requests to be more 'community minded' and will be shown the door. I think, this year there's been 4 or 5......a pretty good batting average in a site that has grown 500,000 members or so in that time. Their removal, as with the quiet asides to the odd person suggesting a 'rethink of attitude' is how Wincustomize.com is kept running 'smoothly', where people can freely interact without being reviled/insulted/abused.
Some people see Wincustomize.com as a place to grab heaps of free skins...
Some people see Wincustomize.com as a place to feel at home, hang out with friends, and grab heaps of free skins.
Some people see Wincustomize.com as a community...and are more than happy to put their money on the fridge.
It's up to one and all to realize the 'value'....
Reply #154 Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:45 PM
| 500,000 members |
Is that figure still correct?
Brad says the site costs $300.000...
Become a member for $1 per year...case solved
Reply #156 Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:18 PM
The overwhelming majority of the content appears to be provided to Wincustomize, free of charge. But I am fully cognizant that it is the 'service' that is being paid for...
No matter how someone might try to "seperate" them, to me, Wincustomize is an intergral part of Object Desktop. I'm one of those who is truly irked when I purchase something, then have to purchase something else to access the full abilities of what I originally purchased. And again, I am fully aware that this is pretty much par for the course in any business.
I am an OD subscriber. However, if I don't have access to the "prettys" on WC, that will have to be looked at seriously. I have OD for the express purpose of making my Desktop look and act they way I want it to.......and if I don't have access to the "prettys" that make OD worthwhile to me, then why would I continue using OD??
Suggestions..........
Add $10 or $20 to my OD subscription and quit playing these petty games.
Work out some sort of rate for those who are contributors of the "prettys" who are not subscribers of OD.
Let the rest look but not touch.
Reply #157 Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:49 PM
Reply #158 Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:00 PM
Reply #159 Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:17 PM
| I'm one of those who is truly irked when I purchase something, then have to purchase something else to access the full abilities of what I originally purchased. |
Let's see ...
Television (cable or satellite),
Cd player (cd's),
Automobile (gas,oil)
Refrigerator (food),
House (furniture, appliances, gardening supplies...),
Computer (software, peripherals),
etc.
You must be truly irked.
Reply #160 Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:10 PM
BUT, I have since had many problems with several of the main programs, in particular DesktopX, Natural Desktop (never been able to run without the CPU redlining), ObjectBar and Desktop Gadgets, even the SmartException program I used to document my problems soon stopped working for no apparent reason?!
Usually I'd wait for the next update to see if that fixed things but to no avail, so then I would contact support for some help. Excuse my expressive language but, THE SUPPORT SUCKS! They start out very helpful but before the problems are sorted they stop replying!! Very frustrating, especially for a novice like myself. Then if you keep nagging about a particular problem they reply like it's the first time they heard from you and you have to start from scratch in explaining the whole thing again!
I still visit and use the site as there are some very talented skinners and high quality work to enjoy, BUT I definitely WON'T be wasting anymore of my hard-earned cash on something that's given me so much grief and no help/support! Maybe I'm not the only one experiencing similiar problems??
Sincerely Frustrated and Dissappointed,
Brad Griffin, (mrdarb).
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Reply #141 Monday, October 17, 2005 8:44 AM
Yes that is the key, since ther are so many great artists, skinners here, why on earth doesn't anyone make a great "Widget" for advertising the site. I know how hard it is to start a business, but this site is not that young any more and really needs to think about the next step.
As far as how many people go by on this site doesn't do a thing for it financially, I don't believe any price for the programs are expensive since a packet of smokes is about $10. Then again when there are the free version programs and visitors can just get what ever they like why should they join.
So it really doesn't matter how many visitors go pass this place.Visitors are a costly bunch. What needs to be done is to at least limit them to, say 2-3 skins a day. I don't know if this is done now but when I first discovered this site a couple of years ago that was the case and since I found so many great skins that I wanted that was the reason I joined as a member because I didn't want to be limited to what and how much I can download.
This is a little story about getting something for free. "A neigbor asked the better off neighbor to lend him some money and he said listen there is a box in the kitchen just go and take what you need but remember to return it back when you get in to some cash. The next time the neighbor asked again and the reply was the same. Another day the neighbor asked for the money again and was told the same that the money is in the kitchen in the box,oh, but said the neigbor it's empty, well said the other, did you put some back through time as we agreed, well no he said. Well how on Earth do you expect to get some now".
So WC just can't afford to have too many freebies, I just think that it needs to tighten the screws a bit more when it comes down to the above mentioned things.
Hate to see it close as I do enjoy it and I have met some really great people here and made a lot of friends, some very special people.
Hope they are reading this and taking to account that we do want this site to stay and get healthier and prosper to better financial flow.
If things in life don't work for us we have to change our ways and try something different, sit, think and put it to action. There are a lot of heads out there so I am sure if put together and write down, roughtly what could be done and then from it all choose the best of the lot and try it out. Things can only get better.